The Re-Sign James Posey and Eddie House Thread

[Roy Hobbs]

Posey is a different story.  It makes no sense to expect him to play for a sub-$4 million salary, when the market for his skills (as demonstrated by his own contracts) has been in excess of $5 million+ per season.  I don't expect Posey to take a "home town discount"; he's been here for one season, and has won two championships in his career.  I'm sure he'll take this opportunity to cash in with a deal commensurate with his skill-level, and I don't blame him.

  I keep hearing that he's going to command this big salary, and I'm not sure I see it. He's never been more than a $6M guy and he was still unsigned at the end of August last year. He's going to be 32 next year, so a full MLE deal would have him making $6-7M when he's 35 or36. That seems like a bad investment.

Even so, I think a team will commit three or four years of the MLE to him.  I mean, at the very least, he's worth as much as Anderson Varejao, right?  Posey has now been a key contributor on two separate championship squads, and I expect some team in need of a defender who can stretch the floor will give him a deal in the 3 year, $18.5 million range.  It will be up to us whether we want to match that (using our MLE), or let him walk.

[Hondo]

Not a capologist "if that is even a word" by any means, but the cap for the NBA isn't a hard cap like the NFL is it?  It seems like the Knicks are spending way over the number and just pay a premium on the money over the cap.  If this is just a luxury tax issue just pay them both and keep the ball rolling.  Lets live in the moment.  I doubt ticket prices, food prices, clothing prices or any other Celtics related revenue are going down in the next few years so I don't see how as a fan any of the cap issues effect us.

Pay the man... 

[17...18...19!]

My hope is that Mngmt understands the gravity of the situation....and that these few individuals who make the BIG decisions realize that they have the opportunity to make some history here, and make the right decisions accordingly.

Championship teams are a rare thing, as the Celtics nation is well aware of lately.  Our team this year is obviously special, in ability and chemistry, and I am certain that we can only get better during the next few years.  Just imagine how great we will be when these current players begin to know each other's games like the back of their hands?  We're going to start seeing, on a regular basis, no-look passes and alley oop plays.  That is a "magic" part of the game that wasn't on display with our Celts this year, it takes time for that to happen, even with a team of great players.

As mentioned previously, the extra money spent to cover the luxury tax was likey covered by the increase in merchandising and such (I would love to see an analysis of this, if anyone has those figures).  As the Celts become a dynasty, the continually increasing merchandising revenue (and probably tix as well:( ) would continue to lessen the impact of any extra money the owners had to spend to keep the most special players in Boston.

Keep the team together!  I bet the Celtics can resign Posey, and House, and all others who make sense (sorry Sam-I-Am) at a reasonable amount, especially when there is a good chance of adding a ring or two at the end of the year.  Lets make some history!

[rondofan1255]

The only good thing of us not signing him back, is to save money for other players. Also, it would make a hell of a storyline for the ESPN, and what-not reporters to use against us. I can imagine "They have no posey anymore, and the Big 3 are aging, etc" and again favor other teams (like the lakers and cavs maybe) for sure.

[uconn9904]

Re-sign Posey for 2 years with a team option for a 3rd. Let Eddie go (it pains me to say it since he's one of my favorite guys on the team).

[cordobes]

Not a capologist "if that is even a word" by any means, but the cap for the NBA isn't a hard cap like the NFL is it?  It seems like the Knicks are spending way over the number and just pay a premium on the money over the cap.  If this is just a luxury tax issue just pay them both and keep the ball rolling.  Lets live in the moment.  I doubt ticket prices, food prices, clothing prices or any other Celtics related revenue are going down in the next few years so I don't see how as a fan any of the cap issues effect us.

Pay the man... 

Well, there's a soft cap in the NBA because teams can use "exceptions" to go over the salary cap. You pay the luxury tax if you go over the cap but you can't just sign who you want the way you want even if you don't mind paying the tax.

So, the C's can't just offer Posey a $13M/2 years contract for him to stay, because they'll need cap space to do that. Nothing to do with the luxury tax.

On the topic, I agree with Roy on House: if we want to resign him, the non-Bird exception or the LLE will do it. I'd rather use the non-Bird because that would allow us to use the LLE in the FA market if needed.

Posey is a more difficult case. We don't have to worry about above-MLE offers because teams with cap space will spend it on more valuable free-agents (Brand, Arenas, etc). But I assume that at least one team will offer him the full-MLE for 3 years - $18.5 million for 3 years. 

That'll leave the C's with 2 options:

a) match the offer. If we do that, we won't be able to sign new players, unless using the LLE (bi-annual exception) and minimum salaries, for at least the next 2 years. I'm not sure if I want to keep Posey this way. Too risky.

b) offer him a 5 year non-Bird contract. That'll be a much better option for the Cs. For Posey, it's probably worse, but there's a chance he'll buy it: if he accepts this offer, he'll be making $22.5 million in the next 5 years. In 2011 Posey will be 35 years old. Does he think he can make a $4m/ 2 years contract at that time, to match the same amount of earnings in a 5 year span, assuming he chooses the 3 year full-MLE now? Does he intend to keep playing until he's 37?

[Chris]

 The more I think about it, the more I am worried that Posey will go elsewhere.

I just don't see the C's wanting to match anything over 3 years on the MLE, or they may not want to use the MLE at all.

And there is a good chance at least one team will offer him 4 or even 5 years, and considering this is his last big chance to cash in, I think he will likely be unable to turn it down.

[ManUp]

Resigning Posey is a must, House not so much.

[wahz]

Sign them both.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CroeKBFb0OY&feature=related

[wahz]

The more I think about it, the more I am worried that Posey will go elsewhere.

I just don't see the C's wanting to match anything over 3 years on the MLE, or they may not want to use the MLE at all.

And there is a good chance at least one team will offer him 4 or even 5 years, and considering this is his last big chance to cash in, I think he will likely be unable to turn it down.

I agree. He MAY have to be willing to accept something less to stay. Simply to hurt us Kupckak will throw the max he can at him, which will be what, 18.5 mill over 3 years? In one stroke we are badly, badly damaged, and LA gets exactly what they need. If James stays, I hope everyone knows there will be some degree of financial sacrifice from him to do it.

[rondofan1255]

I can imagine Cleveland going after Poz *shivers*.

They seem to be willing to take in contracts like Ben Wallace, so why not? Besides, their team is kind of old already, and Posey lives there.

Then, their defense would be even better than it was.

Agh. I hope he doesn't go to Cleveland, or any other possible contender in either conference, and I don't really think he's worth 6 or 7 million.

[BballTim]

Posey is a different story.  It makes no sense to expect him to play for a sub-$4 million salary, when the market for his skills (as demonstrated by his own contracts) has been in excess of $5 million+ per season.  I don't expect Posey to take a "home town discount"; he's been here for one season, and has won two championships in his career.  I'm sure he'll take this opportunity to cash in with a deal commensurate with his skill-level, and I don't blame him.

  I keep hearing that he's going to command this big salary, and I'm not sure I see it. He's never been more than a $6M guy and he was still unsigned at the end of August last year. He's going to be 32 next year, so a full MLE deal would have him making $6-7M when he's 35 or36. That seems like a bad investment.

Even so, I think a team will commit three or four years of the MLE to him.  I mean, at the very least, he's worth as much as Anderson Varejao, right?  Posey has now been a key contributor on two separate championship squads, and I expect some team in need of a defender who can stretch the floor will give him a deal in the 3 year, $18.5 million range.  It will be up to us whether we want to match that (using our MLE), or let him walk.

  Varejao's younger, taller, and has more of a market available. Trust me, I watched the Celts closely this year. I saw all that Posey did for us, and I'm not saying that this statement accurately describes him or his contribution. But he's a soon to be 32 year old SF who averages 7 points and 4 rebounds a game off the bench. He's a good player, but he's an "over the top" move for a contender. Is that really worth $22M over 4 years? I don't know.

   You'd have to think that the only teams that will pay that are contenders with no holes to fill bigger than backup SF. Are there many of those? People keep saying the Lakers are interested in him, but they have Vlad and Walton and Ariza behind Odom, and they need to upgrade their pg and backup center position IMO.

  I could be way off base on this, but Posey was still available after weeks of free agnecy and he was just a year removed from being a key member of a title team. Has doing the same thing for us that he did for Miami increased his value that much? I don't really have a problem giving him the money since we don't have a huge need other than backup center, but I just think that 4 years $22M or so is a lot of money for Posey.

[wahz]

God, I didn't think about Cle. Sheesh. Well he is what a lot of teams need and of course he is a perfect fit for us. Of course he is worth the 18.5 or whatever it is. He is a perfect 6th man for us, and the chemistry with the rest of the team is absurd. I will be miserable oif we lose him. I recall opeing the blog page up last August I think it was and Jeff had a picture of Posey up and I think the caption was: how do you like our bench now? I smashed my quads on the underside of my desk as a leaped up out of my chair. Right then and there I knew we would win it all.

There is only one ball, guys. Posey is the right man. If we didn't have him, you would want to get him. Lets just keep him.

[Casperian]

It all comes down to our priorities to determine what is smart and what not.

Do we want to win titles during the next years, or do we want to make sure our cap situation doesn´t hurt us in three years?

I think it´s obvious that we should place title runs over cap situation in three years. Titles are opportunities that don´t come around very often, while the cap situation is something that resolves itself over time.

With this in mind, I think we have to resign Posey, even if that means we have to pay too much money for one year. There is no other player in the league with his combination of skills, maybe Bruce Bowen, and I´m not sure about that. The playoffs have proven how valuable and clutch Pose is, and considering that he´s ok with coming from the bench, he´s even more of a rarity.

Someone said that if we want to replace Posey, we probably have to get 2-3 guys to compensate for this loss, and I agree. Imo, Posey is indispensable.

Resign Posey.

If House would resign for around the same money he gets now, and if he doesn´t want a long-term deal, I think we should bring him back, too. His energy and confidence off the bench have proven to be an integral part to this year´s playoff run. If he wants significantly more money, or minimum a 3-year-deal, I think Danny has to think about a replacement.  

[Chris]

Personally, I think the team who should be looking to lure Posey away is Portland.  They have two needs right now, a PG and SF.  I expect they will try to trade for a PG (maybe Davis), and then use their MLE to sign a SF.

Posey would be a perfect starting SF for that team.  He brings defense, toughness, and most importantly a veteran presence to a very young team.

If they were able to add Posey and say Baron Davis (trade Lafrentz, Outlaw, Jack, and maybe their pick for him), they would imediately become a favorite to make a lot of noise out West...and I have to say I would be a lot more afraid of that team than the Lakers.