Not to be Debbie Downer but Doc...

[Roy Hobbs]

Gues what? ... Larry Bird, Bill Russell, ... Roy Hobbs ... [and] Red Auerbach [are] flawed.

Blasphemy!

All kidding aside, nice post, nick.  I gave you a TP.

[quikblink]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

I started this thread because I was shocked at how everyone was jumping on the Doc is an amazing coach bandwagon (I guess I am having issues with bandwagons in general).  I am glad to see people saying that he isnt perfect, but he is 1 win away, motivator, etc...  I just wanted to comment on the rush to crown him.  He has flaws.  Flaws that have driven me nuts for years, and will continue to.  I was just shocked at the turn of the tide. 

I am willing to say that the moves he made worked and I am grateful for it.  I just questioned the how/why those moves came to be.

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

[cdif911]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

Let's see, I'm self employed, own my own house, have two children in college on the Dean's lists of their respective universities, have another son in middle school who is probably one of the most gifted kids in his school and I have a drop dead gorgeous wife.

And I am flawed. Probably fatally flawed, whatever that neans. I guess it is just a saying that means extremely flawed but I thought it meant someone was flawed to the point where it would lead to his existance being discontinued.

Gues what? Kobe is flawed. So is Phil Jackson. As is LeBron James, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Larry Brown, David Stern, President Bush, the Pope, Roy Hobbs, wdleehi, Celticmaestro, Coach Bo, Edgar, Redz and everyone else who post on this site. Red Auerbach was flawed as well.

I guess flawed people like us deserve each other.

Sure you have your right to not like Doc's work. You have the right to criticize his work. But when you do things of this nature when he is having the most success of his career and can not acknowledge that he is having some success, that tells me that you are either a person so perfect and heartless that you cannot admit that not only that there is a slight chance you might be mistaken and have a need to put others down while they experience their joys and successes because it makes you feel more superior and boosts your ego further or that you don't understand the concept of proper and improper timing.

I'll assume the latter because assuming the former, I imagine, would be insulting and that is against the rules of this blog.

Your timing, sir, on the continued bashing of the coach of the Boston Celtics is amazingly poor and unimaginative. How about waiting until after the Celtics have blown the 3-1 lead and lost the series before continuing with the Doc is a buffoon stuff because then that would be properly timed.

[cdif911]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

I started this thread because I was shocked at how everyone was jumping on the Doc is an amazing coach bandwagon (I guess I am having issues with bandwagons in general).  I am glad to see people saying that he isnt perfect, but he is 1 win away, motivator, etc...  I just wanted to comment on the rush to crown him.  He has flaws.  Flaws that have driven me nuts for years, and will continue to.  I was just shocked at the turn of the tide. 

I am willing to say that the moves he made worked and I am grateful for it.  I just questioned the how/why those moves came to be.

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

Doc is the right coach for this team.  He's proven it.  Period.

[Roy Hobbs]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2?   

There wasn't a heck of a lot Doc could have done in the first half.  Between the officiating, and the flat play of everyone other than Ray, Doc didn't have much to work with.

As for the 4th quarter of Game 2, the team mentally let up.  I would have preferred that Doc go away from small ball there, and tried some players who would actually play with some urgency, but that was on the players, not the coach.

The only issues I've really had with Doc in this series are the continued play of Sam Cassell in Games 1 & 2, and the insistence to play four guys off the bench at the same time.  In Games 3 & 4, Sam has effectively been moth-balled, and last game, we didn't have more than three bench guys in there at the same time, despite Rondo and Perk being hurt.

[johnnyrondo]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

Not for nothing, but it sounds like you're hoping we lose game 5.     I've been frustrated many a times with Doc, dating back to playing Scal all those minutes back in the day to benching House, but you seem like you'd rather have us lose, just so you can bash Doc harder and have people join you.  

[crownsy]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

I started this thread because I was shocked at how everyone was jumping on the Doc is an amazing coach bandwagon (I guess I am having issues with bandwagons in general).  I am glad to see people saying that he isnt perfect, but he is 1 win away, motivator, etc...  I just wanted to comment on the rush to crown him.  He has flaws.  Flaws that have driven me nuts for years, and will continue to.  I was just shocked at the turn of the tide. 

I am willing to say that the moves he made worked and I am grateful for it.  I just questioned the how/why those moves came to be.

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

two things.

The reason people are taking issue with what your saying isn't that we all love doc all of the sudden, alot of us have been neutral (myself) to critical of doc (roy and others) and i'm sure we all still hold those opinions of him overall. but that doesn't prevent some of us from being objective.

But the tenure of your posts seems to be that this was a mistakenly good move by doc, and that he's so flawed he's never made a good decision in his coaching tenure. thus, you try to explain it away with alternate explanations. I agree with roy, you seem to be invested in his failure/incompetence (as roy said your not alone) but thats not logical nor fact. What he did in the second half was excellent coaching, that doesn't mean im suddenly "slurping him" as you said, it means i can call it like i see it. He deserves all the credit from a coaching standpoint that second half. Yes the players made the plays, but doc did all he could to put them in the position to make those plays. thats his job, its all any coach can do.

and your logic of asking what about the first half as a shot doesn't hold. if can be flipped right around, what about the second half from jackson? if he's so clearly a great coach, why would he have such a disatrious half?

no coach is perfect, they make good calls and bad calls.

 and i still tend to think doc is good sometimes, bad others, but to say people who don't agree with your assessment in this thread are "slurping" doc now? please.

thats false, were acknowledging a half filled with excellent decisions, that happened, its fact.

Thats not being a "doc lover" (hate that term, as much as i hate doc basher)Thats called being objective, something you've shown little of in your posts.

[Redz]

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

Might be semantics, but it's the wrong word.  Puzzlingly, somewhat, extremely, or historically, might have fit in better there.  To me, even in your context, fatally means dead.  You can't hyperbole death.  It's absolute.  And I know you didn't mean the players were literally deceased, just their hopes.

Anyhow, you're right, it's semantics, but just trying to explain why I mentioned it in the first place since you brought it back up.

[quikblink]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

I started this thread because I was shocked at how everyone was jumping on the Doc is an amazing coach bandwagon (I guess I am having issues with bandwagons in general).  I am glad to see people saying that he isnt perfect, but he is 1 win away, motivator, etc...  I just wanted to comment on the rush to crown him.  He has flaws.  Flaws that have driven me nuts for years, and will continue to.  I was just shocked at the turn of the tide. 

I am willing to say that the moves he made worked and I am grateful for it.  I just questioned the how/why those moves came to be.

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

two things.

The reason people are taking issue with what your saying isn't that we all love doc all of the sudden, alot of us have been neutral (myself) to critical of doc (roy and others) and i'm sure we all still hold those opinions of him overall. but that doesn't prevent some of us from being objective.

But the tenure of your posts seems to be that this was a mistakenly good move by doc, and that he's so flawed he's never made a good decision in his coaching tenure. thus, you try to explain it away with alternate explanations. I agree with roy, you seem to be invested in his failure/incompetence (as roy said your not alone) but thats not logical nor fact. What he did in the second half was excellent coaching, that doesn't mean im suddenly "slurping him" as you said, it means i can call it like i see it. He deserves all the credit from a coaching standpoint that second half. Yes the players made the plays, but doc did all he could to put them in the position to make those plays. thats his job, its all any coach can do.

and your logic of asking what about the first half as a shot doesn't hold. if can be flipped right around, what about the second half from jackson? if he's so clearly a great coach, why would he have such a disatrious half?

no coach is perfect, they make good calls and bad calls.

 and i still tend to think doc is good sometimes, bad others, but to say people who don't agree with your assessment in this thread are "slurping" doc now? please.

thats false, were acknowledging a half filled with excellent decisions, that happened, its fact.

Thats not being a "doc lover" (hate that term, as much as i hate doc basher)Thats called being objective, something you've shown little of in your posts.

I am just going on what I have seen from Doc the last 4 years not the last 2 quarters. 

[Kwhit10]

I don't know if it has already been said, but the Celtics have outscored the Lakers in every 3rd quarter of this series.  That is the quarter after you make adjustments from the first half, you can't deny giving him any credit.

[crownsy]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

I started this thread because I was shocked at how everyone was jumping on the Doc is an amazing coach bandwagon (I guess I am having issues with bandwagons in general).  I am glad to see people saying that he isnt perfect, but he is 1 win away, motivator, etc...  I just wanted to comment on the rush to crown him.  He has flaws.  Flaws that have driven me nuts for years, and will continue to.  I was just shocked at the turn of the tide. 

I am willing to say that the moves he made worked and I am grateful for it.  I just questioned the how/why those moves came to be.

Also whats the big deal on the term "fatally flawed"?  It was in reference to how their individual flaws in the past have lead to their teams elimination from the playoffs or the death of their title hopes.  Good god relax on the semantics. 

two things.

The reason people are taking issue with what your saying isn't that we all love doc all of the sudden, alot of us have been neutral (myself) to critical of doc (roy and others) and i'm sure we all still hold those opinions of him overall. but that doesn't prevent some of us from being objective.

But the tenure of your posts seems to be that this was a mistakenly good move by doc, and that he's so flawed he's never made a good decision in his coaching tenure. thus, you try to explain it away with alternate explanations. I agree with roy, you seem to be invested in his failure/incompetence (as roy said your not alone) but thats not logical nor fact. What he did in the second half was excellent coaching, that doesn't mean im suddenly "slurping him" as you said, it means i can call it like i see it. He deserves all the credit from a coaching standpoint that second half. Yes the players made the plays, but doc did all he could to put them in the position to make those plays. thats his job, its all any coach can do.

and your logic of asking what about the first half as a shot doesn't hold. if can be flipped right around, what about the second half from jackson? if he's so clearly a great coach, why would he have such a disatrious half?

no coach is perfect, they make good calls and bad calls.

 and i still tend to think doc is good sometimes, bad others, but to say people who don't agree with your assessment in this thread are "slurping" doc now? please.

thats false, were acknowledging a half filled with excellent decisions, that happened, its fact.

Thats not being a "doc lover" (hate that term, as much as i hate doc basher)Thats called being objective, something you've shown little of in your posts.

I am just going on what I have seen from Doc the last 4 years not the last 2 quarters. 

right, exactly my point. you seem invested in his failures, and can't remove yourself from them to look at things objectively.

ugh if i say objectivly one more tiem i'll officially sound like

[QuinielaBox]

Doc Rivers has coached a wonderful series, certainly a lot better than that 9 time champion who rode Pippen-Jordan's jockstrap to six and Kobe-Shaq to three more.

Doc is more of a motivational coach than an X's and O's coach. He kept the team together when they stunk last year. I think the chemistry is much better with the Celtics than with the Lakers at this point and I think the Series finishes tomorrow night at Staples.

The Lakers might put together another nice run for the show but when the Celtics start barking, they will fold up like a cheap tent.

[BudweiserCeltic]

But what about the first half?  What about the 4th quarter of game 2? 

Since it was mostly a defense problem, and by your definition that's Tib's area, we can blame Tom for it, no?

I also addressed the first half already, he had already inserted the small line-up in there, so your theory of Doc doing what he did by accident when Perkins got injured is, how do you like to put it, flawed.

[expobear]

The bottom line is winning. If the Celitcs win the NBA championship, all the credit should go to Rivers. Some Doc bashers have already said, "well, he's got the Big Three and the best talent in the NBA". That in itself should be an indication of how good of a job Rivers has done this year - to keep three superstars focused on the ultimate prize and getting the Big Three to subordinate their egos for the good of the team. I still think Powe should play more  but all the little nitpicky comments about how Rivers should have done this or that or shouldn't have done this or that really are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Whether it's luck or skill or a combination of both, Rivers should be commended for having done a great job all season, championship or no championship.

[Vermont Green]

For the record, I like Doc and have all along.  He hasn't been perfect but has shown the ability to learn and adapt.

Now, my question, for those who are down on Doc (not that there is anything wrong with that), just exactly where do you think this team would be if we had a better coach.  More than 65 wins?  Better than 1 game away from #17?  All after a completely revamped team in the preseason?

I have probably been around longer than many of you but most great teams need a few years to come together and make a few runs in the playoffs before they get a championship.  It is a combination of teams learning to play together better and them adding just the right piece the next season after better understanding the team.

Doc is doing it with this team in 1 season!

I guess a really good coach would have won 75 games and swept the western conference champion.  Man, I can't wait until we can get a real coach in here.  Maybe we should trade KG and Doc to the Lakers for Gasol and Phil Jackson, then we would be way better.