Not to be Debbie Downer but Doc...

[quikblink]

is it possible to lose tommy points? because the person who started this thread should. id even considering permenant ban.

Are you kidding me!?  I have been on Celtics Blog since the .net days.  I cant have an opinion?  I rarely post because of people like you. People who would rather take shots at someone than actually have a dialog about the topic.  This is ridiculous.  Relax Joe McCarthy.

[Edgar]

is it possible to lose tommy points? because the person who started this thread should. id even considering permenant ban.

Are you kidding me!?  I have been on Celtics Blog since the .net days.  I cant have an opinion?  I rarely post because of people like you. People who would rather take shots at someone than actually have a dialog about the topic.  This is ridiculous.  Relax Joe McCarthy.

I fully agree with your position here
even tough I fully disagree with your position about Doc
I think some posts like people asking for banning and negative tps just because they disagree with u are tasteless, even tough sometimes people are just joking and trying to be funny.

Thats why we dont carry negative Karma anymore

[Redz]

is it possible to lose tommy points? because the person who started this thread should. id even considering permenant ban.

A bit harsh.  The  OP has the right to his opinion (and I might add he is far from alone in not supporting Doc).

[CoachBo]

Quite true, but quilty of the phenomenon of blaming everything that goes wrong on the coach - rather like a high school parent.

The fact is Doc is one of the really big winners in this playoff run, especially in this series. The move Thursday night to go small was a master stroke, one you'll recall was not unanimously approved by his staff.

Rivers has had his rough moments as a coach. But he's winning the individual matchup against the Feng Shui Master or whatever you call the Lakers' Head Whiner, Phillip Jackson. And he's acquitted himself quite nobly in this series.

Some really good points about the alleged greatest coach in the game in this thread: He rides a badly ineffective bench, he clearly has zero control over Bryant, he cannot get Gasol and Odom to defend inside, etc - all extremely legitimate criticisms of a guy whose coaching genius is BADLY blown out of proportion by the media.

This is a tough time for the anti-Rivers crowd, same as last summer was a tough time for the "let's keep drafting kids for the future crowd." We wouldn't be here if Danny didn't find buyers for the alleged youth movement, and we're all going to have to come to grips with the fact that Rivers has done a really nice job on the bench in the playoffs and this series, especially from the motivation angle that so many of you want to discard. Fact: You do not complete the greatest comeback in NBA playoff history if the coach can't get the players on the bench to buy in and believe.

The guy's working his way up the ladder of NBA coaches. Face it.

[TerreHaute]

I have no problem with negative opinions. I just think that once in ahwile you have to look objectively and give credit where credit is due. To say that coaching played no role in the greatest comeback in finals history is ridiculous. Doc may not be the best coach ever, but throw the man a bone when it works out for him.

As I said earlier, it makes no sense to give players all the credit when the team wins, and give the coach all the credit when the team loses. There is no doubt that a coach needs horses in order to win. But creating the environment to get the horses playing together the way they have this year has come from the coach quite a bit. Doc at least deserves that much credit.

[TerreHaute]

CoachBo hit the nail on the head with the high school parent comment. As a former high school coach, I have a total appreciation for that one. If I knew how to give a tommy point, I would do so.

[CoachBo]

Back atcha with the tp for the objectivity note.

A year ago, I was ready to bid adieu to Danny Ainge for messing up the franchise. But objectivity demands that the success of the past year be recognized. The guy made some brilliant moves - the post-Garnett signings being among them - and he deserves all the plaudits he's received.

[Roy Hobbs]

If I knew how to give a tommy point, I would do so.

Under CoachBo's name, under where it says Tommy Points, there's green text that reads "giveth one".  Click that.  Then, an hour from now, do the same thing under my name.

As for Doc, for a long time, I thought the Doc "haters" were unified simply because they wanted the best thing for the team, and they thought Doc was holding the Celts back.  That's the class I found myself in; I saw him as a good locker room coach, but a poor coach in terms of the rotation.  Thus, I thought he wouldn't have this team in the best position to win, and I think that played out a bit over the first two rounds of the playoffs, as our rotation was in shambles and we were losing against inferior teams.

As the playoffs have progressed, however, Doc has gotten better with the on-the-court stuff, and was masterful last game.  That doesn't mean he'll continue to coach at that level going forward, but he deserves credit for a great half of coaching.  That performance, coupled with the glowing things Paul Pierce said about Doc after the game, suggest to me that he's doing something right at present.

I think some of Doc's detractors have now made an investment in being right, more so than wishing the best for the Celtics.  I'm not saying that Doc is a great coach, but I am saying that if somebody can't admit that Doc did well last game, their bias is clouding their vision.

[CoachBo]

I think some of Doc's detractors have now made an investment in being right, more so than wishing the best for the Celtics.  I'm not saying that Doc is a great coach, but I am saying that if somebody can't admit that Doc did well last game, their bias is clouding their vision.

You get another tp from me for making my point far more concisely than I did, Roy. Well done.

[Redz]

If I knew how to give a tommy point, I would do so.

Under CoachBo's name, under where it says Tommy Points, there's green text that reads "giveth one".  Click that.  Then, an hour from now, do the same thing under my name.

As for Doc, for a long time, I thought the Doc "haters" were unified simply because they wanted the best thing for the team, and they thought Doc was holding the Celts back.  That's the class I found myself in; I saw him as a good locker room coach, but a poor coach in terms of the rotation.  Thus, I thought he wouldn't have this team in the best position to win, and I think that played out a bit over the first two rounds of the playoffs, as our rotation was in shambles and we were losing against inferior teams.

As the playoffs have progressed, however, Doc has gotten better with the on-the-court stuff, and was masterful last game.  That doesn't mean he'll continue to coach at that level going forward, but he deserves credit for a great half of coaching.  That performance, coupled with the glowing things Paul Pierce said about Doc after the game, suggest to me that he's doing something right at present.

I think some of Doc's detractors have now made an investment in being right, more so than wishing the best for the Celtics.  I'm not saying that Doc is a great coach, but I am saying that if somebody can't admit that Doc did well last game, their bias is clouding their vision.

Bingo.  Well said. I giveth one TP.

I've been a Doc supporter all along and have given up defending him for those very reasons.  As my Dad likes to say, "The nice part about banging your head against the wall, is it feels good when you stop."

[Steve from Milford]

Guess what? Doc is not perfect! That be said, he has made fewer mistake and more good moves in this entire series the Phil Jackson.

Championship level performance is never about perfections (it isn't possible). It is about making the fewest mistakes combined with the timely great plays plus inducing your opponent to make mistakes. I give Doc a checkmark in all three areas this entire series (not to mention the Detroit series).

[Roy Hobbs]

Reciprocal TPs all around!

[CoachBo]

I haven't been a Rivers supporter all the time, and I certainly haven't been an Ainge supporter. But the fact is, I was wrong on both counts.

Doc has done several things exceptionally well this season:

He brought a diverse group of players together and molded them so they'd succeed from the beginning. Ask Jason Kidd how tough that is.

Ubuntu. In partnership with the Big 3, they built a foundation of team basketball and have continued to grow it throughout the season and playoffs.

He built depth. There was a lot of complaining about the broad rotation, including from me, but the fact is we now have the quality depth to withstand some injuries.

Now, to Thursday night:

He kept the 5 on the floor and the bench involved in a game where nothing was going right. I can't over-emphasize enough how much the simplicity of believing is essential to pulling off a comeback like that.

And now, to take issue with the OPs original premise: I would assert that Rondo's offensive ineffectiveness, and not Perkins' injury, led to the decision to play Posey and House. In fact, PJ sat when those two came in.

Rondo's inability to score the basketball allowed Kobe to play a center field defensively that was giving us problems everywhere on the floor. By sitting PJ and Rondo for Posey and House, you put five shooters on the floor that forces LA to defend straight-up.

A master stroke by Doc that worked.

[noblegreen]

what kind of dialogue is there to have when we win the nba finals? are you not pleased with that? are you blaming doc for not being 16-0 in the playoffs? are you blaming doc because we didn't beat the bulls 72-10 record? what exactly are you complaining about? we are one win away from greatest and fullfilling the legacy of all our players and staff. 

Listen to the players, owners and management about doc, not what 'fans' have to say. because fans dont know anything. yes i said they dont know anything. 

everyone in the organization loves the guy, the players would 'die' for him, and that should be enough for the fans to appreciate the great job hes done. 



and btw i never post on here, only when someone makes a comment that aggreviates me because it lacks basis.

[nickagneta]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

Let's see, I'm self employed, own my own house, have two children in college on the Dean's lists of their respective universities, have another son in middle school who is probably one of the most gifted kids in his school and I have a drop dead gorgeous wife.

And I am flawed. Probably fatally flawed, whatever that neans. I guess it is just a saying that means extremely flawed but I thought it meant someone was flawed to the point where it would lead to his existance being discontinued.

Gues what? Kobe is flawed. So is Phil Jackson. As is LeBron James, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Larry Brown, David Stern, President Bush, the Pope, Roy Hobbs, wdleehi, Celticmaestro, Coach Bo, Edgar, Redz and everyone else who post on this site. Red Auerbach was flawed as well.

I guess flawed people like us deserve each other.

Sure you have your right to not like Doc's work. You have the right to criticize his work. But when you do things of this nature when he is having the most success of his career and can not acknowledge that he is having some success, that tells me that you are either a person so perfect and heartless that you cannot admit that not only that there is a slight chance you might be mistaken and have a need to put others down while they experience their joys and successes because it makes you feel more superior and boosts your ego further or that you don't understand the concept of proper and improper timing.

I'll assume the latter because assuming the former, I imagine, would be insulting and that is against the rules of this blog.

Your timing, sir, on the continued bashing of the coach of the Boston Celtics is amazingly poor and unimaginative. How about waiting until after the Celtics have blown the 3-1 lead and lost the series before continuing with the Doc is a buffoon stuff because then that would be properly timed.