Not to be Debbie Downer but Doc...

[nelson]

Quickblink , Whatever!!!!!!!!!!!

Doc, deserves everybit of credit as a head coach would be getting up to this point wether its earned or not. In these playoffs , He's done an excellent job with leading his team, line-ups, timeouts , ect.

For the record, I'm not a real Celts fan ,I only followed the Celtics this yr b/c of the Big3. In fact, I grew up in LA late 80's--hated the green! But no other team deserves to win but the Celts this yr.

You are up 3-1 in these Finals and you still find flaws in Doc game???

Its things like this that I cant stand...sorry.




 

[wdleehi]

Doc deserved the credit he is getting for game 4. 

[celticmaestro]

this "lets hate doc for the sake of it" rubbish is boring.

i read your post and while this isn't an attack on you i'm disregarding everything you said.

doc's coaching and motivational skills helped us a long way to winning game 4. and in getting us as far as we've gotten.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm going to make my judgment based upon what happened, rather than what might have happened.  Doc coached as well as anybody could have coached our team in the second half of Game 4.  He deserves credit for that, and to diminish that by saying that he might not have gone small otherwise is silly.  Plus, one thing Doc *loves* is going small; one of the consistent complaints that is made is that he doesn't go big enough.  No, this one was all Doc, and he deserves credit for it working.

And what has Phil Jackson done that was so great?  Take Derek Fisher out of the game, when he was the most effective Lakers point guard?  Refuse to play Trevor Ariza?  Sit Lamar Odom for long periods, when he was having his best game? 

This series, more than anything else, had proved to me just how overrated Phil Jackson is.  He made one good move: putting Kobe on Rondo.  That disrupts the Boston offense.  Doc, however, countered that with Eddie, and Phil had no answer to that.

I'm sure as many of you know, I am *far* from a Doc apologist.  However, when he does well, give him credit.  Doc has coached very well since the end of the Cleveland series.  He's made his share of mistakes this post-season (benching Powe and Eddie, his crazy four-man bench units, going small to close out victories, etc.), but he's learning from those, and is very, very close to becoming a championship coach. 

[Redz]

If we're playing the "Doc only made his decisions based on the hand he was forced to play" theory, wouldn't it make more sense that he play PJ Brown, or Powe, or even Big Baby more when Perk got hurt and not make an adjustment to go small.  If he was working like a robot and just plugging in parts based on a need, that would have made more sense.

No, Doc deserves whatever credit he's receiving.  I honestly don't care whether he outcoaches Phil Jackson or not.  Just bring home one more victory and the anti-Doc-kers can pick apart how he could have done things better all they like. 

[TerreHaute]

My biggest complaint here is that the Doc bashers want it both ways. When we play great and win: it is the players, or Thib, or in spite of Doc. But, when we lose it is Doc's fault for poor coaching. Which way to you guys want it? At least show some consistency.

[biggs]

Everything I have read about the amazing comeback states that Doc out coached Phil.  Did he really?

If it wasnt for Perk messing his shoulder up again Doc never would have gone small with Pose.  I also firmly believe that the reason House was in was because he was FORCED to put him in because of the score. 

I think we (including me) have been quick to dump of Doc when things went bad (in truth most was warranted), but this praise from the media is just as rash.  To say he "out-coached" Phil is a bit of an overstatement.  When you are forced to go to your best lineup not because of a calculated decision, but rather injury and a record breaking lead you are not a great coach. 

Do I care HOW it happened?  No of course not, but I am sick of reading how great of a coaching mind Glenn Rivers is. I, like many on this site, watched every game of Rivers Era and know that not much from an Xs and Os has changed this season (besides the D which Doc gave over to TT completely).  Please let us not forget the years Doc has taken of the end of our lives due to stress from bad lineups.

Also, many columnists point to the 3rd quarter differential as proof of Doc winning the coaching battle.  I say that is more on Thibodeau.  The defense is was held the Lakers to 17 points.  The defense lead to transition baskets.  The defense is why we are 1 win away from 17.

This is such a load of crap that it is not funny.

The man looks right and he's an idiot for not looking left but when he does look left you are going to question why he still isn't looking right.

Do yourself a favor and take your foot out of your mouth and go to the dinner table and start eating your crow.

The fact that the anti-Doc crowd can still come out at this point in time and still try to rip into Doc is sad and pathetic and says more about the person doing the complaining than it does about the person being complained about.

If 48 minutes from a world championship the one thread you want to start is an "I can't stand all the good things being said about Doc because he's an idiot" thread, you don't deserve the championship to savour.

TP for you my friend. 



Doc's lineups have always been questionable (IMO).  Besides that's not how he out coached the "Zen Master".

There's little talk about what Doc did at half time to light a fire under these guys and get them ready to take an 18 point deficit and turn it into a win on the road in the finals.

That alone is pretty amazing to me.

If there's anything I have learned about Doc it's that he is a motivator and that is his greatest strength.  He has the ability to get these guys going and is probably the only coach in the league that could get this group of stars to play with each other. 

I mean look at how much Doc's ability to be a leader has helped with the chemistry of this team.  Paul Pierce is all business these days and so is the rest of the team.  They all buy into what Doc's selling.  Then you look at L.A and there a bunch of cry babies, calling each other out throughout the media as early as game one and throwing there towels when they screw up.

We just have more heart than L.A. plain and simple and while KG's attitude has certainly helped with the culture of this team that mostly comes from the top.

So yeah maybe Doc got lucky with the combo he had in there, but there's a lot more to it than that. 

Posey pretty much willed himself into this game.  He just had to play and House has been due!  This is a team sport and before the playoffs these two guys were our bench period so I'm not too surprised that Doc was able to rely on them when he had to.

This was the way we were meant to win.  Did anyone else expect Ray to be on fire for this whole series?  Did anyone think Powe would go nuts like he did?  Are you going to complain that he got lucky with leaving Powe in there long enought to score too?  Come on.

It's been a roller coaster thus far both historically and emotionally so whatever way we win to me is just gravy.  I can't even fathom complaining about one fiber of the entire Celtics franchise at this point.

I'm just so happy that were here.

Doc Rules and so does the rest of our team.  Everyone brings something to the platter.

Go GREEN!!!!!

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I have been a consistent critic of Doc, but I think he did a solid job in Game 4 for the most part.  However, as I have argued before, if you are going to be fair, you have to distinguish between things that work out for the right reasons and things that work out for the wrong reasons.  You also have to distinguish between common sense and an innovative good decision.

If you want to give Doc credit, the question is whether he made any decisions that are valuable above what a "replacement coach" would have done.  I think his decision to go small, for reasons explained above, does qualify as better than what a replacement coach would have done, since the average coach would have probably gone with Brown or Powe.

Now, in general, I maintain Doc is not a great coach.  Witness the House v. Cassell thing and his odd random benchings of Leon Powe, along with many other decisions over the year.

But he is getting better and he did make some solid decisions in Game 4.

[quikblink]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

[biggs]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

I laugh at you and your negativity

[noblegreen]

the problem i have with people like the person who started this thread is you are going out of your way to bash doc, dont deny it becuase you are...

now with that said why doesn't anyone EVER listen to doc.  maybe thats why you dont like him because you never listened to anything hes ever said... even he said he didn't outcoach phil and that his players made plays for him.  doc is a very humble human being and will be one of 4 active coaches with a ring...


so for the person who started this thread : put that in your pipe and smoke it.


other three:
Phil
Pop
Riley (who doesn't coach any more)

[Redz]

I laugh at everyone who is slurping Doc right now.  I do not think the man is a good coach.  I have never stayed from that.  People ask for consistancy and I am bringing it.  I didnt like him last year, I didnt like him this year, I didnt like him last series, and I dont like him now (as a coach).  I just cant wait until game 5 when he does all the same stupid moves and everyone flops back and starts going after him again.

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

Wouldn't this mean they're dead?  Rumors of the Big 3's death have been greatly exaggerated (several times I might add)

[Roy Hobbs]

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

The list of stars who have won championships without at least one other all-star on the roster is... ?  Hakeem Olajuwon?  Maybe Rick Barry?  Anyone else you want to offer?

[quikblink]

It is very poetic that Doc is the coach of this team though.  All of our stars have been fatally flawed on their own, and not until they play together are they in the finals with Doc Rivers (a flawed coach) at the helm.

Wouldn't this mean they're dead?  Rumors of the Big 3's death have been greatly exaggerated (several times I might add)
[/quote]

I said on their own, meaning not this season.  So yes their teams seasons and chances to win a title were dead.

The list of stars who have won championships without at least one other all-star on the roster is... ?  Hakeem Olajuwon?  Maybe Rick Barry?  Anyone else you want to offer?

Its not like each of them didnt have all-stars playing with them besides this year though.  It wasnt a jab at the players, just an observation that our 3 stars (who have flaws in their game) are being coached to a title by someone who is also flawed.  Thats it.

[noblegreen]

is it possible to lose tommy points? because the person who started this thread should. id even considering permenant ban.