Anyone see the shot chart of the game?

[CelticsWhat35]

Pow deserved most of his foul shots. 
I'm more concerned that somehow the refs didn't see the Lakers ever getting fouled. 
What was it, 2 FT's in the first 3 quarters?

As mentioned, just because a shot comes from inside the paint doesn't mean a foul was committed.  There was at least one play where contact could have been called on a Gasol and-1, but other than that, I'm not seeing a lot of specific complaints from you guys.  Just the same old generic "our soft players shot from in the paint, so why didn't we get calls?!" garbage.

If Kobe wants more calls, drive to the basket.  He had, what, four shot attempts in the paint where a foul wasn't called?  If he wants free throws, he's got to drive more.  The reason he doesn't?  Because the Celtics defense shuts him down, and he settles for off-balance, fall-away jumpers from 19 feet.  In other words, "bunnies".

I hear you, except that Kobe spin move to basket and-one no-called plus a technical foul on top of it.
Also, drive to hoop, grabbed/hooked by "The Truth" with another no-call.

Stuff like that changes the complexion of a game.  3 Fts in the 3rd quarter is abominable and no one around here will even admit we got jobbed by the refs.  You act like it was clean and fair the whole way despite the mountain of evidence.  Were you guys on the OJ Jury?

I'll give you Pierce grab when Kobe put it up left handed.  That should've been a foul, although maybe before the shot.  But the technical on Kobe was deserved, and the and-one was not.  He didn't get fouled on that played.

I agree that the calls overall favored the Celtics, but it was more like 55-45 or 60-40 in favor of the Celtics, not the 90-10 or 95-5 that the LA media and fans are making it out to be.  There were some horrible calls that didn't go our way too.

[angryguy77]

I agree that the calls overall favored the Celtics, but it was more like 55-45 or 60-40 in favor of the Celtics, not the 90-10 or 95-5 that the LA media and fans are making it out to be.  There were some horrible calls that didn't go our way too.
[/quote]


You mean its not ok to use the guy in front of you as a ladder and grab the rebound?

[BballTim]

Pow deserved most of his foul shots. 
I'm more concerned that somehow the refs didn't see the Lakers ever getting fouled. 
What was it, 2 FT's in the first 3 quarters?

As mentioned, just because a shot comes from inside the paint doesn't mean a foul was committed.  There was at least one play where contact could have been called on a Gasol and-1, but other than that, I'm not seeing a lot of specific complaints from you guys.  Just the same old generic "our soft players shot from in the paint, so why didn't we get calls?!" garbage.

If Kobe wants more calls, drive to the basket.  He had, what, four shot attempts in the paint where a foul wasn't called?  If he wants free throws, he's got to drive more.  The reason he doesn't?  Because the Celtics defense shuts him down, and he settles for off-balance, fall-away jumpers from 19 feet.  In other words, "bunnies".

I hear you, except that Kobe spin move to basket and-one no-called plus a technical foul on top of it.
Also, drive to hoop, grabbed/hooked by "The Truth" with another no-call.

Stuff like that changes the complexion of a game.  3 Fts in the 3rd quarter is abominable and no one around here will even admit we got jobbed by the refs.  You act like it was clean and fair the whole way despite the mountain of evidence.  Were you guys on the OJ Jury?

  What about VladRad's travel? What about that offensive foul called on Rondo? What about Odom knocking PJ to the ground to get a rebound? What about Powe getting fouled on the dunk at the end of the third? What about the play in the 1st quarter when someone ran over KG and they called the foul on Garnett (and the technical foul on top of that)? What did you think of those calls?

[Chris]

Pow deserved most of his foul shots. 
I'm more concerned that somehow the refs didn't see the Lakers ever getting fouled. 
What was it, 2 FT's in the first 3 quarters?

As mentioned, just because a shot comes from inside the paint doesn't mean a foul was committed.  There was at least one play where contact could have been called on a Gasol and-1, but other than that, I'm not seeing a lot of specific complaints from you guys.  Just the same old generic "our soft players shot from in the paint, so why didn't we get calls?!" garbage.

If Kobe wants more calls, drive to the basket.  He had, what, four shot attempts in the paint where a foul wasn't called?  If he wants free throws, he's got to drive more.  The reason he doesn't?  Because the Celtics defense shuts him down, and he settles for off-balance, fall-away jumpers from 19 feet.  In other words, "bunnies".

I hear you, except that Kobe spin move to basket and-one no-called plus a technical foul on top of it.
Also, drive to hoop, grabbed/hooked by "The Truth" with another no-call.

Stuff like that changes the complexion of a game.  3 Fts in the 3rd quarter is abominable and no one around here will even admit we got jobbed by the refs.  You act like it was clean and fair the whole way despite the mountain of evidence.  Were you guys on the OJ Jury?

I agree that there were a lot of no-calls that could have been made, going each way.  Like I said before, the refs were letting the teams play.  The difference in foul shooting was not about the no-calls though.  They were about one team reaching and grabbing on defense, and another team not.  Those are easy calls to make, and whether the refs are letting teams be physical or not, they are going to make those calls.  Unless the Lakers stop doing that, and either beat their man to the spot, or don't touch them at all, they are going to continue to send the C's to the line more than they go.

If the refs were calling the game closely, and not letting them play, the Lakers would have gone to the line probably 25 times...but the C's would have gone to the line about 55 times.

[footey]

Did any Laker fans feel they were getting screwed by the refs during the game, or mostly just outplayed by the Celtics? If Phil Jackson had not ranted about the foul shot discrepancy, would you be griping so much about the refs? Did you apologize when you benefitted by the call discrepancy in your favor during the Utah series, or did you justify it by saying that the calls were the result of being more aggressive?

[kgiessler]

John Hollinger has a good breakdown of the Lakers shot charts over the first couple games.  The important thing is you don't want your role players taking long 2s.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080610

As a shorthand, we'll call these other players "guys you'd really prefer weren't launching from 17."

The Celtics got 11 shots from that crew in Game 1, and 13 shots in Game 2; that's only 24 of the combined 92 shots those players took. In other words, 73.9 percent of their shots have been "good" looks, the kind of shots an offense wants to generate.

In the Lakers' case, that number through the first seven quarters of the series was a jarring 39, on 101 shots. In other words, only 61.4 percent of their shots were the type of quality looks you want for secondary players.

Additionally, these numbers underestimate Boston's quality shot attempts for another reason -- a huge number of Celtics tries would have been registered as close-in shots but for the fact that they were fouled while shooting.

Boston was fouled on a missed shot 14 times, compared to just three for the Lakers. Throw those numbers into the Game 2 shot chart and it's 23 long 2s in 69 "attempts" (shots+fouls) for the Lakers, compared to 14 of 61 for the non-Garnett Celtics. Once you throw in the fouls it becomes apparent that even in Game 2, the Celtics were taking better shots.

Ah yes, the fouls.

Given the shooting-chart disparity, our wonderment at the foul disparity is no longer so puzzling, is it?

His analysis is a pretty good break down.  It certainly puts meaning to the stats everyone keeps spewing.

[Scintan]

Discoflux....

Beyond the shot chart with all those deep 2's being taken by L.A., the relatively even number of fouls called, and Hollinger's analysis pretty much killing the Lakers' argument about the free throws, you still haven't answered the questions I posed to you on the other thread you made about this:

1.) Were you this upset in the first game, when Perkins was called for a foul on a play where he not only didn't foul anyone, but he was fouled and injured by the Lakers at the same time?

2.) Have you been griping all year long whenever Kobe got the benefit of calls just because he's Kobe, even in the playoffs?

3.) Were you screaming at the officials and demanding something be done about the officiating when the Spurs got hosed on the Barry non-call?

[Last Train]

Pow deserved most of his foul shots. 
I'm more concerned that somehow the refs didn't see the Lakers ever getting fouled. 
What was it, 2 FT's in the first 3 quarters?

As mentioned, just because a shot comes from inside the paint doesn't mean a foul was committed.  There was at least one play where contact could have been called on a Gasol and-1, but other than that, I'm not seeing a lot of specific complaints from you guys.  Just the same old generic "our soft players shot from in the paint, so why didn't we get calls?!" garbage.

If Kobe wants more calls, drive to the basket.  He had, what, four shot attempts in the paint where a foul wasn't called?  If he wants free throws, he's got to drive more.  The reason he doesn't?  Because the Celtics defense shuts him down, and he settles for off-balance, fall-away jumpers from 19 feet.  In other words, "bunnies".

I hear you, except that Kobe spin move to basket and-one no-called plus a technical foul on top of it.
Also, drive to hoop, grabbed/hooked by "The Truth" with another no-call.

Stuff like that changes the complexion of a game.  3 Fts in the 3rd quarter is abominable and no one around here will even admit we got jobbed by the refs.  You act like it was clean and fair the whole way despite the mountain of evidence.  Were you guys on the OJ Jury?

Watch that play agains and tell me who fouled him. He made a nice move and got a layup. He wanted a charity FT on top of that? He wasn't touched.

[RebusRankin]

My favourite bad call was when Odom bowled over PJ for a rebound and then threw it on PJ when PJ was lying on the ground out of bounds. The ref said Laker ball and you could see PJ say, I was out of bounds and on the ground.

The Lakers and their fans need to quit whining.

[ma11l]

They showed an ultra slo mo replay on ESPN of the play when Kobe got the technical, he was not touched.  And let me reiterate, ESPN, aka the Kobe/Laker lovers were showing this and saying it was the right no call.


Kobe gets to the hole whenever he wants, but a lot of the time he is taking fadeaway shots, even when he is taking layups.  He's not going to get calls on those plays.

[Chris]

My favourite bad call was when Odom bowled over PJ for a rebound and then threw it on PJ when PJ was lying on the ground out of bounds. The ref said Laker ball and you could see PJ say, I was out of bounds and on the ground.

The Lakers and their fans need to quit whining.

Wait, what was wrong with that call?  That they didn't call the original foul on Odom?  Because throwing the ball off PJ when he was on the ground was a smart play.

[BballTim]

My favourite bad call was when Odom bowled over PJ for a rebound and then threw it on PJ when PJ was lying on the ground out of bounds. The ref said Laker ball and you could see PJ say, I was out of bounds and on the ground.

The Lakers and their fans need to quit whining.

Wait, what was wrong with that call?  That they didn't call the original foul on Odom?  Because throwing the ball off PJ when he was on the ground was a smart play.

  The original foul on Odom. He went right through PJ and knocked him to the ground. While PJ was laying there Odom's momentum carried him out of bounds so he threw the ball down on PJ.

[kgiessler]

My favourite bad call was when Odom bowled over PJ for a rebound and then threw it on PJ when PJ was lying on the ground out of bounds. The ref said Laker ball and you could see PJ say, I was out of bounds and on the ground.

The Lakers and their fans need to quit whining.

Wait, what was wrong with that call?  That they didn't call the original foul on Odom?  Because throwing the ball off PJ when he was on the ground was a smart play.

I'll be honest...I guess I was mistaken.  I thought if you were the last thing to touch the ball before it touched anything out of bounds, that ball was out of bounds off of you.  Even if that anything was a player.  No?

I'm surprised we don't see more inbounds passes tipped by the opponent right back to the person that inbound them.  That, if what Odom did was right, would result in a turnover.  Right?

[BballTim]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=280608002

I was suprised to see the Lakers took as many shots in the paint as Boston. 
Considering the Lakers 'weren't aggressive', etc.. they seem to have gotten in the paint quite a bit. 

I read the front page about the Lakers fans grasping at straws and not coming to terms with the better team.  I wonder how you all would feel with a 28 Free Throw differential and Ronny Turiaf getting more free throws in 14 minutes than Paul Pierce, KG, Ray Allen and the rest of the team combined.  Maybe, just maybe you wouldn't be congratulating the Lakers for fine play. 

Can anyone explain the shot chart in light of the Lakers not being aggressive?

 

  I'm guessing that Disco danced the night away after the game and that's why he hasn't been on the boards blaming the FT differential in the first half for the Celts loss...