Kobe Bryant's Defense

[BudweiserCeltic]

In truthfulness, I didn't pay much attention to this, but it seemed to me like Kobe Bryant's defense, as good as it may be, didn't bother the Celtics one bit, and I think that's one thing Phil was counting on.

I saw him matched-up quite a few times with our PG, particularly with Sam Cassell, and I really didn't see him bother him one bit, so Phil couldn't get the disruption he was hoping for... what Detroit did to us.

When I saw him on Ray, Ray didn't have any problems with Kobe on him that I could notice. He didn't bother Pierce, though I think Pierce lost the ball once, but that happens with just about any defender on him.

The one thing were the traps they did on Pierce early on when he was on the block, but it didn't work much in the second half.

Anyways, what did you guys notice of Kobe's defense the other night... on who he was paired up with during different instances in the game, and what type of disruption did he cause, if any, that I didn't notice?

Also, when Bryant was moved away from Ray and they put Vujacic on him, Ray simply had his way with him... more Bryant on Ray for the rest of the series you think?

[Who]

Same as it's been throughout the playoffs - completely lacking discipline

Kobe is cheating off his man way too often. It's giving his man several easy shots a night. Instead of Ronnie Brewer, it's now Ray Allen shooting the ball.

Kobe's defense is really hurting the Lakers right now. He has stick to Ray like glue. He's more than capable of it. He's done several times before and during this season. There was a couple of games against Kevin Martin (somewhat similar to Ray) where his defense was excellent and it took him out of the game, he denied him the ball, kept up with him through screens and didn't give him room to breathe.

If Kobe gets his act together his defense can be a big positive factor for the Lakers. With KG eliminating a lot of Odom's offense, the Lakers need to limit Ray Allen. Kobe has to stay more disciplined and stick to his own man. Until then, his defense is hurting LA in a serious way.

[soap07]

From my calculations, Cassell went 1-6 from the field with Kobe on him. How many points did Pierce score with Kobe on him? The 4 point play was on Vlad Rad and he was a non-factor in the first half. The 2 3's were open in transition and not on Kobe, specifically. The fadeaway jumper in the fourth quarter was on Fisher, I believe. All in all, the point is that Kobe wasn't a negative on defense by any stretch IMO.

[wdleehi]

From my calculations, Cassell went 1-6 from the field with Kobe on him. How many points did Pierce score with Kobe on him? The 4 point play was on Vlad Rad and he was a non-factor in the first half. The 2 3's were open in transition and not on Kobe, specifically. The fadeaway jumper in the fourth quarter was on Fisher, I believe. All in all, the point is that Kobe wasn't a negative on defense by any stretch IMO.

That could be true.


Lakers big issue is the guy Kobe's not guarding and KG. 

[soap07]

Kobe's defense is really hurting the Lakers right now. He has stick to Ray like glue. He's more than capable of it. He's done several times before and during this season. There was a couple of games against Kevin Martin (somewhat similar to Ray) where his defense was excellent and it took him out of the game, he denied him the ball, kept up with him through screens and didn't give him room to breathe.

Come on. Ray shot 5-13 from the field, it's not like Kobe was a matador.

[BudweiserCeltic]

From my calculations, Cassell went 1-6 from the field with Kobe on him. How many points did Pierce score with Kobe on him? The 4 point play was on Vlad Rad and he was a non-factor in the first half. The 2 3's were open in transition and not on Kobe, specifically. The fadeaway jumper in the fourth quarter was on Fisher, I believe. All in all, the point is that Kobe wasn't a negative on defense by any stretch IMO.

I think Cassell's shooting problems had little to do with the man that was on him. The thing is that Phil was counting on Kobe disrupting the offensive flow of the Celtics with moving Kobe around, regardless of how the players shot, he didn't bother the ball handlers enough as he should've been. And what's the effect of that? A mismatch in other places of their defense, particularly in the SG and SF positions because Kobe is no longer guarding who he's supposed to, and now is being delegated to guard someone else.

And as Who said, he seemed to do a poor job keeping up with Ray.  And as I said about the Cassell situation, my comment had more to do with disrupting the offense, being a pest of sorts, instead of trying to stop a player that has been wildly incosistent through the playoffs anyways.

Ray was 5 of 13... but how many open shots did he missed? How many times was he able to get to the rim, and simply did a poor job finishing? Quite a few, Kobe's defense is capable of keeping him away from the rim and such, but the effort wasn't there. Most of the missed shots were 3 pointers... hard to tell if that's by design of the defense since that's what Ray has been doing through the whole year.

[soap07]

I think Cassell's shooting problems had little to do with the man that was on him. The thing is that Phil was counting on Kobe disrupting the offensive flow of the Celtics with moving Kobe around, regardless of how the players shot, he didn't bother the ball handlers enough as he should've been. And what's the effect of that? A mismatch in other places of their defense, particularly in the SG and SF positions because Kobe is no longer guarding who he's supposed to, and now is being delegated to guard someone else.

Cassell hitting his shots early was certainly a huge factor in Bryant being placed on him. I think you make a number of excellent points. The way I see it: Cassell was able to overpower Fisher early and then Kobe was guarding him and was therefore neutralized. Because Bryant was guarding a somewhat effective Cassell, he wasn't able to roam as much to disrupt Ray and Pierce.



"Ray was 5 of 13... but how many open shots did he missed? How many times was he able to get to the rim, and simply did a poor job finishing? Quite a few, Kobe's defense is capable of keeping him away from the rim and such, but the effort wasn't there. Most of the missed shots were 3 pointers... hard to tell if that's by design of the defense since that's what Ray has been doing through the whole year."

Again, good points all around. I counter with this: Can anyone actually get the exact number of shots that Ray Allen missed that were contested? I personally  can only remember one three that was wide-open (the first one of the game) that he missed. And if Ray was having trouble finishing, doesn't that have something to do with the quality of his defender? I understand the sentiment, I just think it's being slightly overstated.

[Who]

Kobe's defense is really hurting the Lakers right now. He has stick to Ray like glue. He's more than capable of it. He's done several times before and during this season. There was a couple of games against Kevin Martin (somewhat similar to Ray) where his defense was excellent and it took him out of the game, he denied him the ball, kept up with him through screens and didn't give him room to breathe.

Come on. Ray shot 5-13 from the field, it's not like Kobe was a matador.

Ray Allen had 19 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists. He was more involved in Boston's offense than he's been in weeks. He's only had two games in the past 14 where he's scored more than that, and in neither of those games did he have this all-round impact. Ray Allen's 5 assists were his second highest all playoffs. His playmaking and overall threat in the offense was huge. He hasn't done that in a long time.

Ray Allen was the perfect third option. Lakers can't win with Ray having this large of an impact. KG and Pierce have mismatches, they won't be limited often. Ray can be. Fail to contain Ray and you're in trouble.

Ray's shots will fall more often as the series continues.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Cassell hitting his shots early was certainly a huge factor in Bryant being placed on him. I think you make a number of excellent points. The way I see it: Cassell was able to overpower Fisher early and then Kobe was guarding him and was therefore neutralized. Because Bryant was guarding a somewhat effective Cassell, he wasn't able to roam as much to disrupt Ray and Pierce.

I agree, the problem is that Cassell wasn't doing what he was supposed to do, running our offense, anyways. It has been his achilles heel all season long with the Celtics. So it was more of Cassell becoming selfish of sorts that allowed Kobe to stop him from scoring. Surely, Cassell was having an easy time with Fisher, but when you put someone like Kobe on him you would hope he could bother him more than he did cause if Sam actually ran the offense, the Lakers would've been burned big time.

Again, good points all around. I counter with this: Can anyone actually get the exact number of shots that Ray Allen missed that were contested? I personally  can only remember one three that was wide-open (the first one of the game) that he missed. And if Ray was having trouble finishing, doesn't that have something to do with the quality of his defender? I understand the sentiment, I just think it's being slightly overstated.

Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly, so you need to see how Kobe keeps with him through screens and so on... and from what I remember, Kobe didn't do a good job at it through the game. As I said in my OP, I didn't really pay much attention, but that was my impression.

Sure, he had trouble finishing, but that was because of defense collapsed on him... but a defender like Kobe should be able to keep him from penetrating in the first place, which was my sticking point. Ray was able to go by him, and that shouldn't happen if you're Kobe.

Not really looking at the shooting stats, but how they got there, and I don't think people can be confident about Kobe's defense wether Ray was shooting lights out or missed all his shots just because of the type of looks he got through a good portion of the game.

But if you guys tell me otherwise, that Kobe stayed with Ray and defended him well (despite the shooting success) I'll take your words for it, but it surely wasn't my impression. To put it in perspective, if Kobe had made all his shots last night, I would still say that his defenders played him well and contested most if not all his shots.

[NorCalJack]

This topic is probably the single most misconception in the series.  Kobe is as good as MJ.  That is garbage.  MJ was 10 times better playing defense than Kobe.  The other difference from the Bulls teams and this Laker team is that the Bulls had two excellent and sometimes 3 excellent defenders.  I don't think the Lakers have any.  During the first 3 titles by the Bulls, they had the best defender in the game with MJ and probably the second best in Pippen.  After MJ retired and came back his defense slipped, but they added Rodman, who was the best defender in the game at that time.  So for the last three titles for the Bulls they had MJ, Pippen and the Worm.

When the Lakers won there three titles in a row, they had Shaq.  He dominated the paint defensively.  When they played the Pistons, the Pistons had the best defensive player in Ben Wallace.  They also had Prince and the other Wallace, who where not bad either.

This year Boston has the best defensive player in the league in KG.  Right now Boston has KG, PP, Rondo, Posey, Perk and the Lakers have Kobe.  I would put Kobe about third best if he was on the Celtics.  I believe PP has played better defense than Kobe in the playoffs.

Phil Jackson has only won titles when he has the best defensive player in the series and probably in the league at the time.  When the other team has the defensive MVP, he has not won a title.  I hope this trend continues in this series. 

 

[ma11l]

Sam going 1-6 is definitely up from playoff average.  Tisk tisk Kobe.

[Who]

Phil Jackson has only won titles when he has the best defensive player in the series and probably in the league at the time.  When the other team has the defensive MVP, he has not won a title.  I hope this trend continues in this series. 

Dikembe Mutombo
Gary Payton

Both DPoY players the season their teams made the NBA Finals.

Deke was definitely the best defensive player in the series. Payton or Pippen in '96? Up for discussion.

New Jersey Nets were the best defensive team in the league when they met the Lakers in the Finals and had two top notch defenders in Kidd and Martin. They got swept by LA.

Best team wins - not the team with the best defensive player.

[jay_jay54]

Cassell hitting his shots early was certainly a huge factor in Bryant being placed on him. I think you make a number of excellent points. The way I see it: Cassell was able to overpower Fisher early and then Kobe was guarding him and was therefore neutralized. Because Bryant was guarding a somewhat effective Cassell, he wasn't able to roam as much to disrupt Ray and Pierce.

I agree, the problem is that Cassell wasn't doing what he was supposed to do, running our offense, anyways. It has been his achilles heel all season long with the Celtics. So it was more of Cassell becoming selfish of sorts that allowed Kobe to stop him from scoring. Surely, Cassell was having an easy time with Fisher, but when you put someone like Kobe on him you would hope he could bother him more than he did cause if Sam actually ran the offense, the Lakers would've been burned big time.

Again, good points all around. I counter with this: Can anyone actually get the exact number of shots that Ray Allen missed that were contested? I personally  can only remember one three that was wide-open (the first one of the game) that he missed. And if Ray was having trouble finishing, doesn't that have something to do with the quality of his defender? I understand the sentiment, I just think it's being slightly overstated.

Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly, so you need to see how Kobe keeps with him through screens and so on... and from what I remember, Kobe didn't do a good job at it through the game. As I said in my OP, I didn't really pay much attention, but that was my impression.

Sure, he had trouble finishing, but that was because of defense collapsed on him... but a defender like Kobe should be able to keep him from penetrating in the first place, which was my sticking point. Ray was able to go by him, and that shouldn't happen if you're Kobe.

Not really looking at the shooting stats, but how they got there, and I don't think people can be confident about Kobe's defense wether Ray was shooting lights out or missed all his shots just because of the type of looks he got through a good portion of the game.

But if you guys tell me otherwise, that Kobe stayed with Ray and defended him well (despite the shooting success) I'll take your words for it, but it surely wasn't my impression. To put it in perspective, if Kobe had made all his shots last night, I would still say that his defenders played him well and contested most if not all his shots.

Its hard to tell whether Kobe's defense affected Sam's offense(shots)anyhow.His history,so far in the playoffs regardless who is playing him,has been inconsistent,so he might have just went into his usual slump,just so happens Kobe was gaurding him at the time.Which leads me to the next point,didn't Doc learn from pass experience,to know when to fold'em.Its almost like he is expecting something new to happen with Sam.I do give Sam his props for hitting those shots in the beginning.

[Jon]

First of all, I don't think Kobe is all defensive first team material.  That's not to say that he couldn't be if he decided to be, but I don't think many superstars, particularly superstar guards asked to score 30 points a game, really have energy to be better than guys like Bowen, Battier, and Posey. 

But that's beside the point, as some of you have already said, the bigger problem for L.A. is who Kobe isn't guarding.  Kobe may be better than Pierce and Allen; however, given the defense that Kobe has to face compared to the defense that Allen/Pierce have to face when Radmanovic/Walton/Vujacic is on them arguably makes Allen/Pierce better 

Hopefully the C's look to exploit those guys even more.  Pierce and Allen can destroy those guys all day.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

First of all, I don't think Kobe is all defensive first team material.  That's not to say that he couldn't be if he decided to be, but I don't think many superstars, particularly superstar guards asked to score 30 points a game, really have energy to be better than guys like Bowen, Battier, and Posey. 

But that's beside the point, as some of you have already said, the bigger problem for L.A. is who Kobe isn't guarding.  Kobe may be better than Pierce and Allen; however, given the defense that Kobe has to face compared to the defense that Allen/Pierce have to face when Radmanovic/Walton/Vujacic is on them arguably makes Allen/Pierce better 

Hopefully the C's look to exploit those guys even more.  Pierce and Allen can destroy those guys all day.   

Exactly. This is not about Kobe "causing" Sam to shoot poorly... it's about the impact he has on the game. If you're going to put him on a PG that's not the focus of our offense, he better be causing chaos out there because otherwise you're hurting your team because of the mismatches Phil has caused in the move.