Rondo might turn out be at best a leandro barbosa type

[kgiessler]

I think Rondo is already a better player than Barbosa. He is also only in his second year. He improved a lot since last year and he is not even that bad of a shooter. He can only improve from hear on out. I would be very comfortable with Rondo as our future point guard.

Let's not get crazy here.  Rondo isn't nearly as good as Barbosa, and he probably never will be. 

Ok, so you've made the proclamation that Rondo isn't nearly as good as Barbosa, and probably never will be, but did nothing to back it up.  Are you a religious figure whose word we are just supposed to take as true, or are you going to support your claims?

In a subsequent post you mentioned that Barbosa is faster.  Clearly on this earth there are people that are faster than Barbosa, but not as good at playing basketball.  So unless there is some sort of quantitative way of correlating speed to basketball performance, I'm not sure that can even work as supporting evidence.

[ma11l]

I just feel it is taking rondo a year too long to be a decent pg.

It's his second year in the league, and he's playing fourth-fiddle to three future Hall of Famers.  Our offense isn't point guard dominated.

A year too long?  To be "decent"?  Wow.

Yeah let's just get rid of him like we did with Chauncey.  It took him more than two years to become the player he is today, not that we waited even that long with him.  Let's all get some perspective on how young this kid is.

[celticsmaniac]

I don't think people are trying to rag on Leandro Barbosa as much as they are flummoxed that one could point to him as Rondo's ceiling when Rondo is a second year player who has shown dramatic improvement in his sophomore campaign. For all you know, Rondo could not improve an inch the rest of his career and remain exactly what he is now, or, he could improve every year and end up a far better player than Barbosa. How could anyone pretend to know for sure?


I can't help but wonder what kind of players Triboy 16 was pointing to as the ceiling equivalent of Chauncey Billups when Chauncey finished his second year as a .386 shooter who averaged 3.8 assists per game. Billups didn't average more than 5 assists per game (like Rondo did this year) until his sixth season when he was 25 years old, and didn't have a year with as good a field goal % as what Rondo put up this year until...oh wait, Chauncey has never finished a year with a FG% within 40 points of the .492% that Rondo posted this year. And what mid-level 6th man did Triboy 16 envision as the precursor to Steve Nash when Nash scored 9.1 points per game and dished out a whopping 3.4 assists per game in his second year (when he was two years older than Rondo is now).


...Yeah, Rondo has taken way too long to become a decent point guard.

[Triboy16]

I just feel it is taking rondo a year too long to be a decent pg.

It's his second year in the league, and he's playing fourth-fiddle to three future Hall of Famers.  Our offense isn't point guard dominated.

A year too long?  To be "decent"?  Wow.

Yeah it has. Like i said a pg position is a little different than any other kind of positions. Guys like billups and tony parker are exceptions because they can shoot and drive in an elite level.

rondo can't do either extremely well (He is good at driving, can't shoot with any consistancy). So guess what the defense is doing ? They are double teaming anyone else not named rondo.

Rondo who is a decent passer but can't pass on a team like detroit because he can't score with consistancy.

Hobbs like i said i hope rondo proves me wrong, but he does not look like he is on road to become even a poor mans chris paul or deron williams. He is clinching closer to a barbosa type, i dun get what is wrong with being realistic thats all

[clover]

The kid turned 22 toward the end of February.  He's the age of a lot of college seniors just graduating this month.  Jeez.

[Triboy16]

I don't think people are trying to rag on Leandro Barbosa as much as they are flummoxed that one could point to him as Rondo's ceiling when Rondo is a second year player who has shown dramatic improvement in his sophomore campaign. For all you know, Rondo could not improve an inch the rest of his career and remain exactly what he is now, or, he could improve every year and end up a far better player than Barbosa. How could anyone pretend to know for sure?


I can't help but wonder what kind of players Triboy 16 was pointing to as the ceiling equivalent of Chauncey Billups when Chauncey finished his second year as a .386 shooter who averaged 3.8 assists per game. Billups didn't average more than 5 assists per game (like Rondo did this year) until his sixth season when he was 25 years old, and didn't have a year with as good a field goal % as what Rondo put up this year until...oh wait, Chauncey has never finished a year with a FG% within 40 points of the .492% that Rondo posted this year. And what mid-level 6th man did Triboy 16 envision as the precursor to Steve Nash when Nash scored 9.1 points per game and dished out a whopping 3.4 assists per game in his second year (when he was two years older than Rondo is now).


...Yeah, Rondo has taken way too long to become a decent point guard.

dude i think your comparisons are totally off. Even coming out of the draft billups was billed a combo guard. He might be considered a pg by label but we all know he is a combo guard. Second steve nash even in his second year shot really decently(41 percent three point shooting)

Again i never said rondo is going to stink. He will improve. I'am just stating he is inching closer to being a player like a barbosa than say chris paul.

Why be offended by that??

[crownsy]

I just feel it is taking rondo a year too long to be a decent pg.

It's his second year in the league, and he's playing fourth-fiddle to three future Hall of Famers.  Our offense isn't point guard dominated.

A year too long?  To be "decent"?  Wow.

yea, really. he got into the rotation late last year, so really he's played for a year and a half. in that time he's

1. improved his jump shot by leaps and bounds.

2. gained 10% points on his FG%

3. Been through 2 playoff series wars, and is part of a third.

4. lead a team to 66 wins as its pg


clearly though, one full year in the nba is to long. he didnt score 20 a game with 10 assists, what a bust 

[Roy Hobbs]

Outside of the first ballot Hall of Famers, which point guards in the league succeeded under your "two years or bust" time line?  Just because CP3 and Deron are excelling in at a young age doesn't mean every good point guard will (Chauncey and Steve Nash being just two notable examples).

[crownsy]

I just feel it is taking rondo a year too long to be a decent pg.

It's his second year in the league, and he's playing fourth-fiddle to three future Hall of Famers.  Our offense isn't point guard dominated.

A year too long?  To be "decent"?  Wow.

Yeah it has. Like i said a pg position is a little different than any other kind of positions. Guys like billups and tony parker are exceptions because they can shoot and drive in an elite level.

rondo can't do either extremely well (He is good at driving, can't shoot with any consistancy). So guess what the defense is doing ? They are double teaming anyone else not named rondo.

Rondo who is a decent passer but can't pass on a team like detroit because he can't score with consistancy.

Hobbs like i said i hope rondo proves me wrong, but he does not look like he is on road to become even a poor mans chris paul or deron williams. He is clinching closer to a barbosa type, i dun get what is wrong with being realistic thats all

you do realize both the guys you mentioned could do neither of those things well in their second year right? chauncy took till he was 25 to become half the shooter he is today, and even then he was seen as decent at best. and parker didn't become an average shooter till year 3, and it wasen't really taken off his list of weaknesses until year 4 or 5....

that justification makes zero sense, both those guys you called "elite shooters" were anything but their second year. if you want to try that justification again with a guy like paul or willams, who came in known for thier shooting, go ahead, but lets break down what you just really said.

1. rondo won't be as good as those two because he's not an elite shooter at age 22.

2. Both of the guys in your example took till 24-26, thier 5th and 4th years respectivly to be considered good shooters.

3. ergo, your comparison makes no sense until year four or five of rondo's career.

no one is saying that rondo will be those guys in 5 years, but to claim he will be as good as a combo gaurd bench player at best, and then to make zero sense in your comparisons and not be backed up by any facts?

yea, i can see why people might be skeptical of your opinion.

[celticjames24]

The best current comparison for Rajon Rondo is Tony Parker with more of a defensive mindset. The other key comparison is Mookie Blaylock. For those who don't remember or know Blaylock he was a defensive point guard who had a knack for scoring when necessary. At 6'1" and topping out at 190 lbs Blaylock played for the Nets, Hawks, and Warriors during a 13 year career. He averaged 13.5 ppg, 6.7 apg, 4.1 rpg, 2.33 spg while shooting .409 FG%, .336 3P%, .736 FT% in 889 career games. These numbers all compare favorable to Rajon Rondo and to what Rondo can progress into. However most scouts said that Rondo had better upside the Mookie coming out of college. So we could see some higher numbers from Rajon over time. As for the Rondo-Parker comparison here are the stats after their first 2 years:
Rondo:
26.7 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.5 apg, 4 rpg, 1.7 spg, .463 FG%, .229 3P%, .630 FT%, during 155 career games.
Parker:
31.6 mpg, 12.4 ppg, 4.8 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1 spg, .442 FG%, .330 3P%, .715 FT%, during 159 career games.
So while the numbers are slightly skewed because of the differences in minutes and games played here is what Rondo would have averaged if he played the same amount as Parker:
In 31.6 mpg Rondo would have averaged 10.1 ppg, 5.3 apg, 4.7 rpg, 2 spg while shooting about the same as he is now. These numbers are much more comparable with Parker's yet Rondo is still a better rebounder, defender, and overall shooter than parker was at the same point. The free throws will come to Rondo as will the points and minutes. However at the end of the day Rondo will be a point guard in hybrid model of Blaylock and Parker.

[Triboy16]

I just feel it is taking rondo a year too long to be a decent pg.

It's his second year in the league, and he's playing fourth-fiddle to three future Hall of Famers.  Our offense isn't point guard dominated.

A year too long?  To be "decent"?  Wow.

Yeah it has. Like i said a pg position is a little different than any other kind of positions. Guys like billups and tony parker are exceptions because they can shoot and drive in an elite level.

rondo can't do either extremely well (He is good at driving, can't shoot with any consistancy). So guess what the defense is doing ? They are double teaming anyone else not named rondo.

Rondo who is a decent passer but can't pass on a team like detroit because he can't score with consistancy.

Hobbs like i said i hope rondo proves me wrong, but he does not look like he is on road to become even a poor mans chris paul or deron williams. He is clinching closer to a barbosa type, i dun get what is wrong with being realistic thats all

you do realize both the guys you mentioned could do neither of those things well in their second year right? chauncy took till he was 25 to become half the shooter he is today, and even then he was seen as decent at best. and parker didn't become an average shooter till year 3, and it wasen't really taken off his list of weaknesses until year 4 or 5....

that justification makes zero sense, both those guys you called "elite shooters" were anything but their second year. if you want to try that justification again with a guy like paul or willams, who came in known for thier shooting, go ahead, but lets break down what you just really said.

1. rondo won't be as good as those two because he's not an elite shooter at age 22.

2. Both of the guys in your example took till 24-26, thier 5th and 4th years respectivly to be considered good shooters.

3. ergo, your comparison makes no sense until year four or five of rondo's career.

no one is saying that rondo will be those guys in 5 years, but to claim he will be as good as a combo gaurd bench player at best, and then to make zero sense in your comparisons and not be backed up by any facts?

yea, i can see why people might be skeptical of your opinion.

skeptical or not , its just an opinion. Rondo is our pg but right now he is playing like i dun even know the word for it. Just dribbling up the court and passing it to kg, pierce. Does a pg do that??

so if doc has instructed this to happen often, why has he?? you see gaining experience or not, rondo is suppose to be the pg and should be able to make the decisions on how the offense should work. (mixing things up more in half court offense, keeping the defense on its toes)

Don't really care if doc or pierce yells at him, he should play as a pg. And he is not
He is not making the right passes in pressure situations, he is driving instead. He is not shooting the open shots he is forcing passes. This is an aspect of his play that has not improved even from last year.

Watch guys like billups and parker. In these same situations they rather score than make that important pass. Thats not what a true pg does(but they are effective scorers). So to me he is inching closer to a barbosa(does a bit of everything) than steve nash/chris paul type of starters(controls the offense).

[libermaniac]

Rondo is our pg but right now he is playing like i dun even know the word for it. Just dribbling up the court and passing it to kg, pierce. Does a pg do that??

I think you have Rondo dead wrong.  He's a 2nd year guy (who would be a senior in college had he not left early) playing with 3 potential HOF'ers.  So, periodically he defers to the Big 3.  Any time he wants to take control of the game (which we see in flashes), he's phenominal.  I think each year you are going to see more and more of the reigns passed over to him, and he will shine even more.

He is tremendous in his ability to drive and finish.  Not sure how you can claim otherwise.  Did you see the last play before halftime in game 4?  That's a regular thing for him.

Also, his ability to see the court and direct a team is way ahead of schedule for a 2nd year guy.  Did you see the first series against ATL?  Something like 52 dimes and 7 TOs in the series.  That's right 7 TO's?

How you could question Rondo is beyond me.  This guy is the key to this team competing even as Ray Allen and Pierce and KG decline.  A good PG makes the others around him better, and Rondo will do EXACTLY that!

[Bahku]

Rondo's biggest problem is consistency ... and that's something that comes with age and experience ... he's getting there, but has a ways to go. I don't see how people can criticize his passing, or attacking the basket ... he can do both extremely well, and only struggles because he's so hot and cold, like the rest of the team.

This kid has been given more responsibility than any point guard of his age, and that should always be kept in mind when assessing his performance. The times Rondo plays the best is when he's given the go-ahead to play his game ... when Doc tells him to attack the basket and not worry about set plays. Every time he does, it's like Rage is a different player, and it's fun  to watch.

When it comes to following Doc's bizarre rotations, and never knowing whether he's going to be called on to play 40+ minutes, or be sitting on the bench for half the game, the kid gets a bit confused and inconsistent, and I honestly don't see why anyone's surprised. Doc's coaching follows very little logic or rationale, and any team or player under him is bound to have periods of lapses in judgement, and irregular performances.

All this analysis of our players and match-ups is great, but until we fix the main problem, the major "fly in the ointment", so to speak, these up-and-down performances are going to continue. When a team and it's players aren't put in the best position to win every game, then the result will be questionable, at best. Sorry, I really like Doc as a person, but the focus in all these threads is not in the right place.

All these players have their respective faults, but unless they're given the correct tools with which to deal with those faults, it's just not going to realize their full potential.

[cooleststan]

I think Rondo is already a better player than Barbosa. He is also only in his second year. He improved a lot since last year and he is not even that bad of a shooter. He can only improve from hear on out. I would be very comfortable with Rondo as our future point guard.

Let's not get crazy here.  Rondo isn't nearly as good as Barbosa, and he probably never will be. 

hahaha what do you base this on? Stop making up facts when you are proven wrong. It is ok that you are wrong, just live with it

[cooleststan]

[Deleted.]  Personal attacks are not appropriate.  Do not do it again. -R.H.