Will Tony Allen finally see minutes against the Pistons? He should

[RonJohn]

I don't see TA starting any games in this series but I would like to see his fresh legs and six fouls used on Rip Hamilton. A nice hard fould to set the tone.  PJ Brown did it in the last series, TA can do it in this series.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'll say this, I'm a bit tired of not having any player on the floor with the ability to penetrate. Pierce is not enough for this, as he's the main focus of the defense.  Tony Allen has shown an ability to get to the basket at will. I'd love to see Tony with Allen and Pierce on the floor.

I have been very dissapointed with Rondo in the playoffs, and I place a lot of our offensive woes blame on him.  That being the case, I'd try to do a bit more of the game 7 style offense, and leave the main ball handling duties to Pierce and Ray Allen (hopefully get him in good rhythm too this way), and leave Tony on the floor with the ability to penetrate. It doesn't help matters that Cassell is in a funk himself, and though House has been great the last two games, I'd pay a careful eye on how Billups plays against him.  So considering that, I'd give Tony Allen a shot, but not make him our main ball handler.

[crownsy]

you guys do realize this would mean on defense the pistons would play 3 on 5 right?

despite ray's struggles, he's still one of the best shooters of all time, the pistons have to gaurd him on the permiter, and spread the floor.

tony is 1 for his last 32 from behind the arc and hasen't hit since febuaray. he has no mid range jumper. he turns the ball over when he tries to drive. why on earth would they waste a defender on him?
so, it would be kg, pierce and perk vs the pistons, because until rajon proves he can hurt a team consistantly for doing it, the pistons will take a page out of clevlands book and leave rondo wide open while chauncy helps out.

just because ray isn't scoring does not make him and TA equivlent on offense. Tony is a non-factor, he does one thing marginaly well, drive, and you don't have to gaurd him from that, the pistons have plenty of help big men in the paint.

this would effectivly take our offense, which is struggling, and make it non existant.

I totally agree, but I have said it before and still wouldn't mind starting Posey with Ray off the bench. Posey does have an offensive game and is a better than aveage defender.

posey is viable, but i just think you have to stick with ray. i mean, its not liek the guy is a average shooter. you have to at least stick with him for the home stand because, lets be blunt, if ray is going to give us nothign this series as a starter, we will lose.

posey is indeed a ncie deep threat, but if ray doesn't give us something, we are out of this thing. ray has to get at least warm, if not hot, to stretch the pistons out on defense. we cannot get locked into a half court or even up tempo game with ray shooting 14%, and im not sure posey could pull us out of it.

Ray must play better, plain and simple.

[Chris]

I'll say this, I'm a bit tired of not having any player on the floor with the ability to penetrate. Pierce is not enough for this, as he's the main focus of the defense.  Tony Allen has shown an ability to get to the basket at will. I'd love to see Tony with Allen and Pierce on the floor.

I have been very dissapointed with Rondo in the playoffs, and I place a lot of our offensive woes blame on him.  That being the case, I'd try to do a bit more of the game 7 style offense, and leave the main ball handling duties to Pierce and Ray Allen (hopefully get him in good rhythm too this way), and leave Tony on the floor with the ability to penetrate. It doesn't help matters that Cassell is in a funk himself, and though House has been great the last two games, I'd pay a careful eye on how Billups plays against him.  So considering that, I'd give Tony Allen a shot, but not make him our main ball handler.

Allen has shown the ability to get to the basket at will against regular season, weak defensive teams. 

If you give him the ball against the aggressive defense of the Pistons, he is not going to have much luck getting the hoop.  If he is able to get past the first level, he does not have the ball handling ability and body control to stop himself from charging against a well disciplined defense like Detroit's.  He would just pick up charge after charge, or just have the ball slapped off his knee.

[Chris]

tony is not an elite defender?? I believe even kobe bryant stated tony was one of the toughest matchup for him

average defender?? u must be a new celtics fan

He is a good defender.  That's all. 


And the positives of his defense in undone by his offensive missteps the longer he is on the floor.

Lets not forget that he is also a Jeckle and Hyde on the defensive end as well.  When he is focused, he can be one of the best defenders in the game...the problem is, he has WAY too many mental lapses where he gets caught out of position, or gets burned, because he is looking the wrong way. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'll say this, I'm a bit tired of not having any player on the floor with the ability to penetrate. Pierce is not enough for this, as he's the main focus of the defense.  Tony Allen has shown an ability to get to the basket at will. I'd love to see Tony with Allen and Pierce on the floor.

I have been very dissapointed with Rondo in the playoffs, and I place a lot of our offensive woes blame on him.  That being the case, I'd try to do a bit more of the game 7 style offense, and leave the main ball handling duties to Pierce and Ray Allen (hopefully get him in good rhythm too this way), and leave Tony on the floor with the ability to penetrate. It doesn't help matters that Cassell is in a funk himself, and though House has been great the last two games, I'd pay a careful eye on how Billups plays against him.  So considering that, I'd give Tony Allen a shot, but not make him our main ball handler.

Allen has shown the ability to get to the basket at will against regular season, weak defensive teams. 

If you give him the ball against the aggressive defense of the Pistons, he is not going to have much luck getting the hoop.  If he is able to get past the first level, he does not have the ball handling ability and body control to stop himself from charging against a well disciplined defense like Detroit's.  He would just pick up charge after charge, or just have the ball slapped off his knee.

I don't think that would be the case at all... and I think he has more body control than you're giving him credit for. He'd get more strips than chargers, but I'm willing to bet that he'd get fouled more often.  In any case, it should be a neccessary evil if no one in our team is willing to penetrate like he does.  Paul is the only one capable of, and he has even less handle than Tony or at the least comparable. Ray penetrates, but rarely gets a foul called when he gets hammered and often leads up to a bad shot.  Rondo is clueless in his decision making and is a worse finisher than TA. Who else? Cassell? He doesn't penetrate. House? Awful. Posey? Rarely does.  Even if it's for 5 minutes here and there, we need someone to put the pressure on... attack the basket, get to the foul line, get some fouls called on the opponent. I wish there would be someone else up to the taks, but TA might just be the necessary evil this team needs.

He hasn't played much this postseason, but what little he has played he has shown much better composure and protection of the ball. One turnover in 41 minutes played, I think that's quite an accomplishment for a guy like Tony Allen.

[crownsy]

I'll say this, I'm a bit tired of not having any player on the floor with the ability to penetrate. Pierce is not enough for this, as he's the main focus of the defense.  Tony Allen has shown an ability to get to the basket at will. I'd love to see Tony with Allen and Pierce on the floor.

I have been very dissapointed with Rondo in the playoffs, and I place a lot of our offensive woes blame on him.  That being the case, I'd try to do a bit more of the game 7 style offense, and leave the main ball handling duties to Pierce and Ray Allen (hopefully get him in good rhythm too this way), and leave Tony on the floor with the ability to penetrate. It doesn't help matters that Cassell is in a funk himself, and though House has been great the last two games, I'd pay a careful eye on how Billups plays against him.  So considering that, I'd give Tony Allen a shot, but not make him our main ball handler.

Allen has shown the ability to get to the basket at will against regular season, weak defensive teams. 

If you give him the ball against the aggressive defense of the Pistons, he is not going to have much luck getting the hoop.  If he is able to get past the first level, he does not have the ball handling ability and body control to stop himself from charging against a well disciplined defense like Detroit's.  He would just pick up charge after charge, or just have the ball slapped off his knee.

I don't think that would be the case at all... and I think he has more body control than you're giving him credit for. He'd get more strips than chargers, but I'm willing to bet that he'd get fouled more often.  In any case, it should be a neccessary evil if no one in our team is willing to penetrate like he does.  Paul is the only one capable of, and he has even less handle than Tony or at the least comparable. Ray penetrates, but rarely gets a foul called when he gets hammered and often leads up to a bad shot.  Rondo is clueless in his decision making and is a worse finisher than TA. Who else? Cassell? He doesn't penetrate. House? Awful. Posey? Rarely does.  Even if it's for 5 minutes here and there, we need someone to put the pressure on... attack the basket, get to the foul line, get some fouls called on the opponent. I wish there would be someone else up to the taks, but TA might just be the necessary evil this team needs.

He hasn't played much this postseason, but what little he has played he has shown much better composure and protection of the ball. One turnover in 41 minutes played, I think that's quite an accomplishment for a guy like Tony Allen.

he plays on defensive possesions, its tough to turn the ball over on defense. He usally gets 3 trips at the end of the half, and often they wont pass to him, probley because they are trying to limit his turnovers.

also, i completly disagree that he can just drive on the pistons, what is this based on? he turns the ball over in traffic alot. like, at epic proportions for a gaurd. he is by far, the worst dribbler in the NBA at the gaurd possesion i can think of.

also, how is that he would get more strips than charges a defense of his driving ability? so he would turn it over cleanly more than put up a team foul? awesome. The pistons are very active on help defense on drives, and have active hands. I fail to see how a guy who often dribbles the ball of his foot will be driving on the pistons.

and, sicne the knee injury, he doesn't finsh strong like he used to. he blew tons of bunny layups all season because he hesitated to go up strong. i really don't think a month and a half on the bench has improved his already shaky trust in his legs.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'll say this, I'm a bit tired of not having any player on the floor with the ability to penetrate. Pierce is not enough for this, as he's the main focus of the defense.  Tony Allen has shown an ability to get to the basket at will. I'd love to see Tony with Allen and Pierce on the floor.

I have been very dissapointed with Rondo in the playoffs, and I place a lot of our offensive woes blame on him.  That being the case, I'd try to do a bit more of the game 7 style offense, and leave the main ball handling duties to Pierce and Ray Allen (hopefully get him in good rhythm too this way), and leave Tony on the floor with the ability to penetrate. It doesn't help matters that Cassell is in a funk himself, and though House has been great the last two games, I'd pay a careful eye on how Billups plays against him.  So considering that, I'd give Tony Allen a shot, but not make him our main ball handler.

Allen has shown the ability to get to the basket at will against regular season, weak defensive teams. 

If you give him the ball against the aggressive defense of the Pistons, he is not going to have much luck getting the hoop.  If he is able to get past the first level, he does not have the ball handling ability and body control to stop himself from charging against a well disciplined defense like Detroit's.  He would just pick up charge after charge, or just have the ball slapped off his knee.

I don't think that would be the case at all... and I think he has more body control than you're giving him credit for. He'd get more strips than chargers, but I'm willing to bet that he'd get fouled more often.  In any case, it should be a neccessary evil if no one in our team is willing to penetrate like he does.  Paul is the only one capable of, and he has even less handle than Tony or at the least comparable. Ray penetrates, but rarely gets a foul called when he gets hammered and often leads up to a bad shot.  Rondo is clueless in his decision making and is a worse finisher than TA. Who else? Cassell? He doesn't penetrate. House? Awful. Posey? Rarely does.  Even if it's for 5 minutes here and there, we need someone to put the pressure on... attack the basket, get to the foul line, get some fouls called on the opponent. I wish there would be someone else up to the taks, but TA might just be the necessary evil this team needs.

He hasn't played much this postseason, but what little he has played he has shown much better composure and protection of the ball. One turnover in 41 minutes played, I think that's quite an accomplishment for a guy like Tony Allen.

he plays on defensive possesions, its tough to turn the ball over on defense. He usally gets 3 trips at the end of the half, and often they wont pass to him, probley because they are trying to limit his turnovers.

Valid point, regardless I doubt that him has played all 41 minutes solely on defense. And sure, he often doesn't have the ball, which is precisely my plan. Limit his ball handling responsabilities until it's time for him to get his head down and drive hard to the basket.

also, i completly disagree that he can just drive on the pistons, what is this based on? he turns the ball over in traffic alot. like, at epic proportions for a gaurd. he is by far, the worst dribbler in the NBA at the gaurd possesion i can think of.

In the only two games he "played" against the Pistons this year, he was 5 of 8 shooting, with 3 turnovers, 14 points on 31 minutes of play.

also, how is that he would get more strips than charges a defense of his driving ability? so he would turn it over cleanly more than put up a team foul? awesome. The pistons are very active on help defense on drives, and have active hands. I fail to see how a guy who often dribbles the ball of his foot will be driving on the pistons.

Wasn't defending anything.  Was getting the facts straight. If anything wrong goes with his penetrating it would be someone stripping the ball from him, not because of a charge.  I was defending his body control if anything.  The defense to his driving ability that I made was that more often than not he'd get to the basket successfully or someone would foul him.

and, sicne the knee injury, he doesn't finsh strong like he used to. he blew tons of bunny layups all season because he hesitated to go up strong. i really don't think a month and a half on the bench has improved his already shaky trust in his legs.

Pierce has missed quite a few bunnies in the playoffs.  The main point is that we need someone to attack, and there's simply no one up to the task in our roster.  As I said, a necessary evil.

[crownsy]

but attacking is useless if you can't get to the rim without getting stripped/ blocked.

tony had massive problems driving against teams second units all year, why would he suddenly be money vs the pistons.

TA is a spot defender, nothing more, as a playoffs player.

[BudweiserCeltic]

but attacking is useless if you can't get to the rim without getting stripped/ blocked.

tony had massive problems driving against teams second units all year, why would he suddenly be money vs the pistons.

TA is a spot defender, nothing more, as a playoffs player.

Err, did you read my post? And stop saying that him getting stripped is an absolute... he gets to the rim and gets fould more often than not.  Just because he gives the ball away more often than some doesn't mean that it's certainty that he would do it.  And once again, I point to him getting less ball handling responsabilities and make him solely drive to the basket when needed.

In the only two games he "played" against the Pistons this year, he was 5 of 8 shooting, with 3 turnovers, 14 points on 31 minutes of play.

Also, it's not about Tony being money, it's about also putting throwing something different at the Pistons. I wish there would be someone else up to the task, but there's no one... there's a reason why jump shooting teams often die in the playoffs.  We need to get to the rim for better or worse, and it means putting Tony for a couple of minutes to attack, so be it.

[crownsy]

but attacking is useless if you can't get to the rim without getting stripped/ blocked.

tony had massive problems driving against teams second units all year, why would he suddenly be money vs the pistons.

TA is a spot defender, nothing more, as a playoffs player.

Err, did you read my post? And stop saying that him getting stripped is an absolute... he gets to the rim and gets fould more often than not.  Just because he gives the ball away more often than some doesn't mean that it's certainty that he would do it.  And once again, I point to him getting less ball handling responsabilities and make him solely drive to the basket when needed.

In the only two games he "played" against the Pistons this year, he was 5 of 8 shooting, with 3 turnovers, 14 points on 31 minutes of play.

Also, it's not about Tony being money, it's about also putting throwing something different at the Pistons. I wish there would be someone else up to the task, but there's no one... there's a reason why jump shooting teams often die in the playoffs.  We need to get to the rim for better or worse, and it means putting Tony for a couple of minutes to attack, so be it.

but what i don't understand is how you don't think driving the basket is a huge ball handling respnsblity. it is. Its incredibly difficult to drive vs a good defense, witness lebron vs us. combine that with his poor ball handling and i think your understamating how many turnovers that will be. poor ball handlers are not going to be able to drive at will in detroit.

Also, he doesn't get to the line alot for a slasher, i can't look at the exact stats right now, at work, but he isn't a guy who goes to the line consitantly, because he has poor ball control and thus refs assume most strips on him are clean.

[BudweiserCeltic]

but attacking is useless if you can't get to the rim without getting stripped/ blocked.

tony had massive problems driving against teams second units all year, why would he suddenly be money vs the pistons.

TA is a spot defender, nothing more, as a playoffs player.

Err, did you read my post? And stop saying that him getting stripped is an absolute... he gets to the rim and gets fould more often than not.  Just because he gives the ball away more often than some doesn't mean that it's certainty that he would do it.  And once again, I point to him getting less ball handling responsabilities and make him solely drive to the basket when needed.

In the only two games he "played" against the Pistons this year, he was 5 of 8 shooting, with 3 turnovers, 14 points on 31 minutes of play.

Also, it's not about Tony being money, it's about also putting throwing something different at the Pistons. I wish there would be someone else up to the task, but there's no one... there's a reason why jump shooting teams often die in the playoffs.  We need to get to the rim for better or worse, and it means putting Tony for a couple of minutes to attack, so be it.

but what i don't understand is how you don't think driving the basket is a huge ball handling respnsblity. it is. Its incredibly difficult to drive vs a good defense, witness lebron vs us. combine that with his poor ball handling and i think your understamating how many turnovers that will be. poor ball handlers are not going to be able to drive at will in detroit.

Also, he doesn't get to the line alot for a slasher, i can't look at the exact stats right now, at work, but he isn't a guy who goes to the line consitantly, because he has poor ball control and thus refs assume most strips on him are clean.

Compared to running the offense (which he was doing during the season) and simply being delegated to slashing and penetratating it isn't a huge responsibility.  Fact for me is that I don't care if he turns the ball over when he's aggressive.  The problem with him is that often he turns the ball over in a boneheaded way, and that's the main problem for most... those boneheaded plays often came by the way of running the offense or simply bringing the ball down the floor.

And once again, I point towards his success against the Pistons this year.  I know the playoffs is a different animal, but he has done it agains them so don't bring the "why would it suddenly work against the Pistons" argument.

And this page suggest that you might be wrong about his inability to draw fouls:
http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS5A.HTM

Also, you're not looking at the other side of what I was arguing about. Rondo has been bad this playoffs, often killing our offense, Cassell is in a funk, and House might get destroyed by Billups so I don't see that much of a risk of throwing Tony Allen in there with limited ball handling responsibilities, an attacker, and someone that can probably do a good job defending Billups.

[crownsy]

mabey thats where we don't see eye to eye, turnovers, agressive or not, that are caused by just poor fundemntals can swing playoff games. imagine if pierce had turned it over just twice in game seven on drives due to poor ball handling, we probley lose that game.

Listen, i don't mean to sound like i hate tony, i liek the kid, but to me a offensive enigma has no place in a playoff series, espcally when theres a guy like posey to use off the bench in his place.

as to the "dont bring that argument" because he's played reasonaly well vs the pistons offensivly, he played against thier bench, and detroit will not be playing thier bench alot this series i imagine, outside of stucky and maxiell.

[liam]

Tony Allen should only play in a blow out.

[BudweiserCeltic]

mabey thats where we don't see eye to eye, turnovers, agressive or not, that are caused by just poor fundemntals can swing playoff games. imagine if pierce had turned it over just twice in game seven on drives due to poor ball handling, we probley lose that game.

Listen, i don't mean to sound like i hate tony, i liek the kid, but to me a offensive enigma has no place in a playoff series, espcally when theres a guy like posey to use off the bench in his place.

Yet I'm not advocating he takes Posey's minutes, I'm advocating Tony taking Rondo's, Cassell's, House's minutes here and there. And I like Posey in there... I'm saying that for limited minutes here and there, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have someone capable of penetrating in there because NO ONE is doing it.  That's my main frustration, that there's no one up for the task.

Who knows, maybe Tony is in there with Posey and Pierce. Or maybe he's in there with Ray and Posey, or just the same he's in there with both Ray and Paul. And don't forget that I'm only up for this if you have either Pierce or Ray running the offense while Tony is in there.