Trading Ray in his last year-should it be done?

[Chief]

I can guarentee that Ray will be traded in his last year...... as will Pierce...... as will Garnett.....

Remember, As a player, Ainge was the one that said Red should have traded Bird and Mchale when they were declining..... now as the GM, Ainge gets to do that with declining stars..... it is a business....

heck, even Ainge got traded away ( to the Suns )

Nice point. TP for you. But I believe the Celtics traded Ainge to the Kings.

[fairweatherfan06]

I hate everything about this thread.  So my only two cents is this.  Ray is a team player though I wouldn't fault DA for exploring trade options NEXT summer (no cap room and couldn't get back anyone better right now anyway and the goal for this core was a 2-3 year run...duh this is year 1) another alternative is for Ray whom I'm assuming the next contract he will sign will be his last.  I think Ray would take shorter money and a shorter contract and a seat on the bench to stay in Boston.  And I think if he does the C's would be fools not to take him up on it.

[cell_tics]

I can guarentee that Ray will be traded in his last year...... as will Pierce...... as will Garnett.....

Remember, As a player, Ainge was the one that said Red should have traded Bird and Mchale when they were declining..... now as the GM, Ainge gets to do that with declining stars..... it is a business....

heck, even Ainge got traded away ( to the Suns )

Nice point. TP for you. But I believe the Celtics traded Ainge to the Kings.

YUP - along with Brad Lohaus for Eddie Pinckney & Joe Kleine

[Onslaught]

I hate everything about this thread.  So my only two cents is this.  Ray is a team player though I wouldn't fault DA for exploring trade options NEXT summer (no cap room and couldn't get back anyone better right now anyway and the goal for this core was a 2-3 year run...duh this is year 1) another alternative is for Ray whom I'm assuming the next contract he will sign will be his last.  I think Ray would take shorter money and a shorter contract and a seat on the bench to stay in Boston.  And I think if he does the C's would be fools not to take him up on it.

That's how I feel. TP from me.

[Chief]

I hate everything about this thread.  So my only two cents is this.  Ray is a team player though I wouldn't fault DA for exploring trade options NEXT summer (no cap room and couldn't get back anyone better right now anyway and the goal for this core was a 2-3 year run...duh this is year 1) another alternative is for Ray whom I'm assuming the next contract he will sign will be his last.  I think Ray would take shorter money and a shorter contract and a seat on the bench to stay in Boston.  And I think if he does the C's would be fools not to take him up on it.

The most valuable trading tool in the NBA is an expiring contract. Teams can put those contracts with some young players and land an unhappy superstar on a bad team. C's did it this year to get KG and the Lakers did it to get Gasol. Both teams were in the finals. On the flip side, the Bulls sat on PJ Brown's contract and let it expire. They did not make the playoffs this year.

[Rondoholic]

WHAT IS THE RUSH???  If the Celtics are still a title contender when Ray expires, then we can just resign him for less money.  Or if he walks, we can use that money to sign a top-notch free agent because free agents will WANT to play for this team...   You only NEED to trade expiring contracts when you can't attract good free agents but I don't think this team will have that problem over the next few years. 

[Chief]

WHAT IS THE RUSH???  If the Celtics are still a title contender when Ray expires, then we can just resign him for less money.  Or if he walks, we can use that money to sign a top-notch free agent because free agents will WANT to play for this team...    You only NEED to trade expiring contracts when you can't attract good free agents but I don't think this team will have that problem over the next few years. 

The problem is the NBA does not work that way. There is a soft cap. If Ray walks and the C's are still over the cap, Danny does not have $18 million to sign another superstar. That money is just gone.

*Roy Hobbs could explain the soft cap a lot better than I just did.

[Reyquila]

I agree with Chief 100%. Ainge knows we held on to Bird and Mchale and Parish for too long and we paid for it for 22 yrs. Ive said the same thing here more than once. Im glad Ainge recognizes that fact and I trust he will not hold on too PP and KG and Allen and anybody else like they did with Bird and Mchale. this is a business and the purpose of this business is to win. Dont we enjoy winning?

[papa shuttlesworth]

Obviously a team that pays big money for old, not as effective, players is in a rough spot.  If possible and necessary, you should trade these guys to infuse fresh talent.

But it is not always necessary.  Assuming you draft well and structure contracts appropriately (and RA, PP, KG take less money in future), a smartly run franchise should be able to reload.  It is tougher when you have low (high? at the end of the 1st round) draft picks, but look at the Spurs.    They seem to have done okay.

Not trading Bird and McHale as they declined seems like a mistake now, but if it were not for some cruel blows (Bias, Lewis), the team could have transitioned smoothly.

[EJPLAYA]

There are certain players like Bird that you do not trade for any reason. No matter what it does to your franchise. He earned the right to retire a Celtic. I don't care what you got for him. You treat these guys who ARE your team and the franchise well. They deserve that much.

Ray Allen on the other hand is not a lifetime Celtic. I don't feel the same loyalty to him. KG either for that matter. If we could set up the next championship run by trading these guys at the end then fine. I wouldn't worry about it though for another year or so. I'd trade a couple more championships for another few years of tough times. There is no way that you get equivalent value out of Ray Allen, so I don't think it will matter, but let's cross that bridge after #18 or #19...

How well did that work out getting rid of Ainge...

[rondofan1255]

But it is not always necessary.  Assuming you draft well and structure contracts appropriately (and RA, PP, KG take less money in future), a smartly run franchise should be able to reload.  It is tougher when you have low (high? at the end of the 1st round) draft picks, but look at the Spurs.    They seem to have done okay.

The Spurs are now old, and let's see: Splitter is not coming to the US, they traded Luis Scola and Beno Udrih, Ian Mahinmi is a work in progress, Barbosa was traded in 2003 and I don't see any recent 1st rounders or draftpicks they've had lately on their roster. Their roster is depleted, and full of really old veterans.. Their starting lineup with Duncan and Ginobili are getting older too, especially with all the flopping going on.

[Chief]

Obviously a team that pays big money for old, not as effective, players is in a rough spot.  If possible and necessary, you should trade these guys to infuse fresh talent.

But it is not always necessary.  Assuming you draft well and structure contracts appropriately (and RA, PP, KG take less money in future), a smartly run franchise should be able to reload.  It is tougher when you have low (high? at the end of the 1st round) draft picks, but look at the Spurs.    They seem to have done okay.

Not trading Bird and McHale as they declined seems like a mistake now, but if it were not for some cruel blows (Bias, Lewis), the team could have transitioned smoothly.

If the Celtics could trade Leon Powe (Gerald Henderson) for somebody's first round pick and the pick fall into the top 2 picks in the draft, I could live with that. But that's a long shot.

[papa shuttlesworth]

The Spurs are now old, and let's see: Splitter is not coming to the US, they traded Luis Scola and Beno Udrih, Ian Mahinmi is a work in progress, Barbosa was traded in 2003 and I don't see any recent 1st rounders or draftpicks they've had lately on their roster. Their roster is depleted, and full of really old veterans.. Their starting lineup with Duncan and Ginobili are getting older too, especially with all the flopping going on.

I thought this might be brought up.  I agree that the Spurs are old and that they have made some mistakes.  I think they value old veterans too much now and ignore young (American)players and it has come back to bite them.  But I think their original idea is sound: have a couple key guys, some quality  veterans signed to affordable deals and draft well.  Obviously, if it were that easy, everyone would do it. But I think Danny can put it together, hopefully not at the expense of Ray.

[Barnabas]

The Lakers seem to be the team who do the best job of always being in contention.  But even they can't stay on top consecutively.  I'm of the opinion that you can't be in more than one mode at the same time.  Right now, Boston and Los Angeles are in "contending" mode.  They can make some adjustments to the team, but for the most part, the team core is set.  A team like New York is in "rebuilding" mode, trying to find the pieces to be competitive.  Atlanta, I would think, is in "development" mode.  They've got good pieces that they need to develop in order to be competitive.  And very rarely do the Lakers depend on their draft picks, because they usually have winning seasons and late picks.  

The idea, I believe, is to trade your players while they still have market value.  In other words, you want to trade them while they're still good.  When I say market value, I mean not only "expiring contract" value, but also that the player still has the ability to play at a high level.  Basically, once you realize that the core isn't going to get any better, you trade them.  The team then goes downhill for a while as it switches to rebuilding mode.  The temptation is to hang on to the stars as long as the team is doing well.  However, that makes rebuilding for the future much harder.  Better to go ahead and trade them while they still have value and start rebuilding before the team hits rock bottom.  In short, when should you trade Ray Allen?  That's the question for a good GM to answer.

There may be situations in which a team may hang on to a star, or look to acquire an aging marketable star, in order to keep the fans coming in.  LA doesn't have that problem, so they've never been shy about trading away their stars to quickly get back to rebuilding mode.  Maybe that's why they've been so successful at being competitive.

[papa shuttlesworth]

If the Celtics could trade Leon Powe (Gerald Henderson) for somebody's first round pick and the pick fall into the top 2 picks in the draft, I could live with that. But that's a long shot.

Only a long shot because we should never trade Leon for anything less than the #1 pick.