Trading Ray in his last year-should it be done?

[fugazzi24]

I think people need to realize that Ray is still a top 10 shooting Guard in the league and keeps his body in incredible condition.  He will not decline very quicly and might actually be better next year.  He has surgery on his ankles last summer and then started playing although they told him to wait.  I think a summer of rest and he will come back that much better.  

Also Ray is the one guy on this team Doc does not know how to use correctly.  Rondo should be at the top of the key Ray should be coming off a KG down screen on one side for either an open shot or dump to KG.  When KG catches the ball rondo short flash to the basket and Pierce should then replace him at the top of the key.  

It is simple basketball, Doc likes his guys to go one on one to much and then yells at them to make the extra pass, he needs to put them in better basketball positions.  Is there any chance Doc can put an offense that does not involve one on one every play.  Can we hire Tex Winters I love that guy.

[chrismcc13]

I'm surprised the sonics actually made that trade with us, surprised they would take wally.  I couldn't believe we landed Ray.  yeah, he's been struggling in the playoffs, but it's not like anyone is looking to get him a shot.  I would much rather have him then jason richardson or some of the other names thrown out there on this thread.  He is a very valuable player (where do you think rondo got his jump shot, or other young celts seeing improved proffesionalism, routine, etc.).  By the way, KG didn't not come here at first because Wally was here, it was because he saw the situation here and it reminded him of Minnesota i.e. a rebuilding process.  Once we got Ray, Kevin knew something special was brewing

[BballTim]

It's safe to say we wouldn't get any package like Wally, Delonte and a #5 pick for him...

As much as I would agree that Wally, Delonte and Jeff Green look very appealing right now given Ray's last 2 weeks, let's not forget 2 things:

1) KG does not come here if we do not trade for Ray Allen (not only because of Ray's appeal, but also because common thinking has been that KG is not a fan of playing with Wally)
2) Even though both Delonte and Wally have outplayed Ray this series, neither of them (nor Jeff Green for that matter) outplayed him over the course of the regular season.   Even IF KG comes here without Ray, the C's do not walk away with the league's top record sans RA. And I think homecourt advantage has made its importance known thus far.

Conclusion: RA for Wally, Delonte and #5 -- good trade even though Ray has been just awful in the playoffs. 

Now, four 3's in a row to start the game today and my Ray-frown turns happy once once again.  That is just how fickle I am.

Could of gotten a lot more for the # 5 pick. team s wanted Yi. Golden State would have traded us a good amount. Jason Richardson + or maybe Ellis. Who knows. Ainge tends to not get enough for his lottery picks. The Brandon Roy pick should of netted us better than Telfair. Who were we competing with for Telfair? but then Danny thought Telfair was going to turn into Chris Paul (who Ainge has to regret passing on regarding the Pierce trade). I'd also say that after seeing what L.A. gave up for Gasol and Miami gave up for Marion that we overpaid for KG some. If KG didn't want to come b/c of Wally then a) that's immature and b) as Presti showed, Wally could be moved. Right now Wally is more moveable than Ray. Obviously at the time you couldn't trade just Wally and West for Allen (even though the Sonics would of saved money), but kicking in the #5 pick was a huge overpay. Again, b/c of Yi, the #5 pick had a lot of value. If Ray Allen was 27 or 28, then yes he would be worth the #5 pick.

  The Brandon Roy pick did net us better than Telfair. It netted us Theo's contract, which was one of the 2 valuable assets that netted us Garnett. And Ainge didn't pass on the Pierce trade. Paul said he didn't want to go to Portland. And KG is much better than Marion or Gasol. Look at the teams that were bidding against us for KG, and the teams that were trying to trade for Al and Theo to get KG. Was anyone scrambling to get assets to trade for Pau or Marion?

[Brickowski]

I'd trade Ray Allen tomorrow for Delonte West or a guy like Ronnie Brewer (or Josh Childress) and an expiring contract if I could.  Ray is 32 and no longer an all-star level player, and the Celtics need a backup point guard or a taller, stronger guy on the wing opposite Pierce.

No knock on Ray Allen, but time marches on, as evidenced by his performance in these playoffs.

[Chief]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

Times have changed due to the salary cap so overall I do not agree.

I want Paul to retire a Celtic as long as he's willing to be paid what he is worth. ;

Ray Allen Will be packaged and traded when he is expiring.

You see, your falling into the same trap I fell into. I loved Mchale and never wanted to see him in another uniform. So he retires a Celtic and the team is terrible for 15 years. I don't want the same mistakes with Pierce. In the last year of his contract, he has to be traded. It could load this team up for 5 more years depending on who was brought in. Same goes for Ray!!!

[JSD]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

Times have changed due to the salary cap so overall I do not agree.

I want Paul to retire a Celtic as long as he's willing to be paid what he is worth. ;

Ray Allen Will be packaged and traded when he is expiring.

You see, your falling into the same trap I fell into. I loved Mchale and never wanted to see him in another uniform. So he retires a Celtic and the team is terrible for 15 years. I don't want the same mistakes with Pierce. In the last year of his contract, he has to be traded. It could load this team up for 5 more years depending on who was brought in. Same goes for Ray!!!

I know where your coming from  and agree with the essence of your point but I still disagree overall.

The league has changed so much in the last 15 years with the salary cap that trades are no longer based on talent (and I know you know this).

Take a look some superstars that have changed hands the past five years:

- KG to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract.

- Jason Kidd to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

- Pau Gasol  to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

- Shaq  to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

There is a trend that the Celtics and will not fit into with PP is in his final year. Ray Allen will be traded by this time to a team looking for youth, picks and an expiring contract to build for the future, Keep in mind you have still been getting solid MLE's for the last 4 years and when late draft picks getting trained and accelerated by playing with a veteran team.





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[JSD]

Paul Pierce Will retire a Celtic and it will not be detrimental at anytime (unless he insists on getting paid for past accomplishments)

[2short]

I'd keep Ray and restructor his deal when the time comes.  He isn't just a jump shooter, he's a fine all around player (at any age), a team leader and a big help to the young guys.  A lot of these final years of a players career boil down to will you be willing to take a smaller role or come off bench.  Ray is in such great condition if he wanted to come off bench can play for AWHILE longer. 
The arguement can be just as easily dump bird before his value drops, hondo, cooz etc etc.

[fairweatherfan06]

TP for 2short for saying the first thing on this ridiculous and premature thread that makes sense to me (outside of: ask me in two years)

Ray is the type of guy that would take a limited role to make way for his eventual replacement.  Quintessential team player something you can't quantify in dollars.

[Brickowski]

TP for 2short for saying the first thing on this ridiculous and premature thread that makes sense to me (outside of: ask me in two years)

Ray is the type of guy that would take a limited role to make way for his eventual replacement.  Quintessential team player something you can't quantify in dollars.

That's true, but it's no substitute for youth.  And it's better to trade a player like Ray Allen a year too soon, when he still has considerable basketball value,  than a year too late. The point is to get something back that fills a real need, as I indicated in my earlier post.

[Chief]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

Times have changed due to the salary cap so overall I do not agree.

I want Paul to retire a Celtic as long as he's willing to be paid what he is worth. ;

Ray Allen Will be packaged and traded when he is expiring.

You see, your falling into the same trap I fell into. I loved Mchale and never wanted to see him in another uniform. So he retires a Celtic and the team is terrible for 15 years. I don't want the same mistakes with Pierce. In the last year of his contract, he has to be traded. It could load this team up for 5 more years depending on who was brought in. Same goes for Ray!!!

Paul Pierce for
I know where your coming from  and agree with the essence of your point but I still disagree overall.

The league has changed so much in the last 15 years with the salary cap that trades are no longer based on talent (and I know you know this).

Take a look some superstars that have changed hands the past five years:

- KG to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract.

- Jason Kidd to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

- Pau Gasol  to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

- Shaq  to a contender for youth, picks and an expiring contract going to a team out of contention building for the future.

There is a trend that the Celtics and will not fit into with PP is in his final year. Ray Allen will be traded by this time to a team looking for youth, picks and an expiring contract to build for the future, Keep in mind you have still been getting solid MLE's for the last 4 years and when late draft picks getting trained and accelerated by playing with a veteran team.





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I love Paul. But I love the Celtics more. And if the Celtics can trade him in the final year of his contract, to help them stay dominant for years to come, I say do it. Maybe a 28 year old Carmello Anthony, Dwayne Wade, or Lebron James will be demanding a trade at that point in time. I'd give Paul Pierce and some draft picks for those guys in their prime.

[Evantime34]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

I wouldn't completely blame keeping them too long on our lack of recent success. Len Bias probably had a lot to do with that.

[Eja117]

I would not mind at all trading him this year for a younger, cheaper guy that could shoot and play a little defense.

There's not a lot of guys that fit that description. If the guy was very young we'd have to send something else they probably wouldn't want, like Scala to make the money work and the guy we'd get would have to be a prospect.

Maybe Josh Childress? Raja Bell?

[Barnabas]

Ray's expiring big contract will be a very important comodity, especially to a team looking to rebuild.  I'd consider packaging Ray, along with just about anyone on the Celtics except Pierce and KG to make a run for Nowitzski.  We need an exciting, offensive player like that. 

[Jon]

I think it largely depends on a) who the C's can get and b) where Rajon Rondo is in his development.  If both a and b are where they should be, then go ahead and do it.  However, keep in mind that Ray Allen's name has a value as well.  Diminishing skills or not, his presence still requires attention and respect from the defense.  Even if it gets to the point that Posey is better on the court than Allen; the very fact that Allen is out there will still change the course of the game.