49 is a telling number

[vibaciousb]

so far this series the hawks have shot 49 (4+14+2+15+14 respectively) more free throws than the celtics....49!!! almost 10 a game...im not sure how this is possible as the celtics have been taking it to the rim...at one point during the game josh smith had more attempts than the entire team...i mean its one thing if the celts were taking all jumpers, but what is going on with the refereeing in this series?

[guava_wrench]

We play really aggressive defense. We swipe at a lot of balls and don't like to give up any shots in the paint. Atlanta also has a lot of fast players and that often means defenders get beat and compensate. There were some bad calls, as there always are, but we also get away with a lot of very physical play.

Atlanta didn't work hard enough to get the same # of fouls called against them. They let Pierce overpower them repeatedly.

Fouls aren't always a result of refs. They are often a result of style of play. We are the most physical team in the league on defense.

[Bahku]

so far this series the hawks have shot 49 (4+14+2+15+14 respectively) more free throws than the celtics....49!!! almost 10 a game...im not sure how this is possible as the celtics have been taking it to the rim...at one point during the game josh smith had more attempts than the entire team...i mean its one thing if the celts were taking all jumpers, but what is going on with the refereeing in this series?

Yup ... you're absolutely correct, (TP), and tonight's officiating was absurd. It's also amazing how many people make excuses for the refs, in favor of the other team! I'm sorry, but these refs are not above reproach, and are not out-of-bounds when it comes to criticism. I see these trends with certain posts, and they're very similar to the whole "Doc is above criticism" sentiment that runs through these blogs. There are some who feel, for reasons I can't understand, that coaches and officials are beyond criticism and analysis, to the point of even disregarding their own team.

Now, I have to say realistically, that I am as guilty as anyone of being biased in the direction of the Celtics ... why wouldn't I be? They're my team, and I'm a fan, and being a fan is all about who you favor ... what team you root for over all the others. But, having said that, there are also many times when it's clearly evident that the officials are leaning in the direction of the opponent, no matter who you are, for many reasons. That's what's been going on here, and it's wrong.

The league is committed to making games as "entertaining" as possible, and blow-outs don't sell tickets in any arena. The fact that the C's, (a first place team), were meeting the Hawks, (an eigth place team), was enough of an inbalance to warrant a little "evening" of the odds, and if that means giving them the benefit of the doubt with fouls, (and being a little less stringent on the other end), well ... who's gonna argue? They're the officials, the ones who make the calls, and what they say goes ... period.

Now, this is highly unethical, obviously, and no one would ever admit to such a thing. But the grey area here is SO large, that they're pretty much insulated from anyone ever being able to peg that one on them. It's much too subjective for anyone to ever call them into question, and the parameters within which they're judged, are wide enough to accommodate a 747. They really have very little to worry about unless they're blatantly breaking rules, or making obvious unethical decisions, (see Joey Crawford). The grey area is big enough that they can make pretty much any call they want, within the boundaries of the rule book, without fear of reproach ... hence the equation: white + black = grey.

All this taken into consideration, it really doesn't serve much purpose to complain .... they'll continue to do what they need to do, and this will always be the official's game, NOT the players' ... but we STILL have the right to voice our displeasure. It's a bit therapeutic for me, and it seems the least I can do for my team. We can NEVER depend on the benefit of the calls ... it just is not going to happen on a consistent basis. This team has got the tools to win without the refs' help, and that's exactly how they have to approach every game. 

But please, don't tell me I can't complain about the refs ... and please, don't tell me they're not biased ... I've got eyes and ears, and that's all the proof I need!

[guava_wrench]

so far this series the hawks have shot 49 (4+14+2+15+14 respectively) more free throws than the celtics....49!!! almost 10 a game...im not sure how this is possible as the celtics have been taking it to the rim...at one point during the game josh smith had more attempts than the entire team...i mean its one thing if the celts were taking all jumpers, but what is going on with the refereeing in this series?

Yup ... you're absolutely correct, (TP), and tonight's officiating was absurd. It's also amazing how many people make excuses for the refs, in favor of the other team! I'm sorry, but these refs are not above reproach, and are not out-of-bounds when it comes to criticism. I see these trends with certain posts, and they're very similar to the whole "Doc is above criticism" sentiment that runs through these blogs. There are some who feel, for reasons I can't understand, that coaches and officials are beyond criticism and analysis, to the point of even disregarding their own team.

Now, I have to say realistically, that I am as guilty as anyone of being biased in the direction of the Celtics ... why wouldn't I be? They're my team, and I'm a fan, and being a fan is all about who you favor ... what team you root for over all the others. But, having said that, there are also many times when it's clearly evident that the officials are leaning in the direction of the opponent, no matter who you are, for many reasons. That's what's been going on here, and it's wrong.

The league is committed to making games as "entertaining" as possible, and blow-outs don't sell tickets in any arena. The fact that the C's, (a first place team), were meeting the Hawks, (an eigth place team), was enough of an inbalance to warrant a little "evening" of the odds, and if that means giving them the benefit of the doubt with fouls, (and being a little less stringent on the other end), well ... who's gonna argue? They're the officials, the ones who make the calls, and what they say goes ... period.

Now, this is highly unethical, obviously, and no one would ever admit to such a thing. But the grey area here is SO large, that they're pretty much insulated from anyone ever being able to peg that one on them. It's much too subjective for anyone to ever call them into question, and the parameters within which they're judged, are wide enough to accommodate a 747. They really have very little to worry about unless they're blatantly breaking rules, or making obvious unethical decisions, (see Joey Crawford). The grey area is big enough that they can make pretty much any call they want, within the boundaries of the rule book, without fear of reproach ... hence the equation: white + black = grey.

All this taken into consideration, it really doesn't serve much purpose to complain .... they'll continue to do what they need to do, and this will always be the official's game, NOT the players' ... but we STILL have the right to voice our displeasure. It's a bit therapeutic for me, and it seems the least I can do for my team. We can NEVER depend on the benefit of the calls ... it just is not going to happen on a consistent basis. This team has got the tools to win without the refs' help, and that's exactly how they have to approach every game. 

But please, don't tell me I can't complain about the refs ... and please, don't tell me they're not biased ... I've got eyes and ears, and that's all the proof I need!

No one is saying you can't complain about refs. You can also claim that Bush planned 9/11 and that we never landed on the moon. I await your YouTube video exposing the NBA referee cover-up.

But you already admitted your bias so we know the real source of your complaints. Not all calls are going your way.

The league is fine with series that aren't competitive. Look at the Lakers series.

For every person like you on this board, there is a person complaining on an Atlanta board about the refs not calling the "obvious" fouls the Celtics were administering to the Hawks.

You have the right to complain, and I have the right to roll my eyes.

[Celtic]

Of the major sports, the NBA is by far the worst officiated. I think many of us know this. While I have been on board with the conspiracy theories of the NBA, the Lakers 3-peat, where teams simply weren't allowed to play with them, the babysitting of Lebron into the finals last year, I don't think this series is of that much importance to the league to force it to go seven games. Bad officials, officiate poorly, they ruin games and they let them get out of control, this is something that was done in the first 4 games of the series. The officiating tonight was pretty even I thought, there were a few ridiculous calls that stood out, but of all the games to complain about this wasn't the one.

The Hawks are getting fouled, not to the degree that they are shooting free throws, but they are being fouled. They are young, they run, and they crash the boards like crazy, by the nature of their game they are going to be at the line more. Now if this continues into the next round, then I am willing to accept any conspiracy theory I can find.

[Bahku]

so far this series the hawks have shot 49 (4+14+2+15+14 respectively) more free throws than the celtics....49!!! almost 10 a game...im not sure how this is possible as the celtics have been taking it to the rim...at one point during the game josh smith had more attempts than the entire team...i mean its one thing if the celts were taking all jumpers, but what is going on with the refereeing in this series?

Yup ... you're absolutely correct, (TP), and tonight's officiating was absurd. It's also amazing how many people make excuses for the refs, in favor of the other team! I'm sorry, but these refs are not above reproach, and are not out-of-bounds when it comes to criticism. I see these trends with certain posts, and they're very similar to the whole "Doc is above criticism" sentiment that runs through these blogs. There are some who feel, for reasons I can't understand, that coaches and officials are beyond criticism and analysis, to the point of even disregarding their own team.

Now, I have to say realistically, that I am as guilty as anyone of being biased in the direction of the Celtics ... why wouldn't I be? They're my team, and I'm a fan, and being a fan is all about who you favor ... what team you root for over all the others. But, having said that, there are also many times when it's clearly evident that the officials are leaning in the direction of the opponent, no matter who you are, for many reasons. That's what's been going on here, and it's wrong.

The league is committed to making games as "entertaining" as possible, and blow-outs don't sell tickets in any arena. The fact that the C's, (a first place team), were meeting the Hawks, (an eigth place team), was enough of an inbalance to warrant a little "evening" of the odds, and if that means giving them the benefit of the doubt with fouls, (and being a little less stringent on the other end), well ... who's gonna argue? They're the officials, the ones who make the calls, and what they say goes ... period.

Now, this is highly unethical, obviously, and no one would ever admit to such a thing. But the grey area here is SO large, that they're pretty much insulated from anyone ever being able to peg that one on them. It's much too subjective for anyone to ever call them into question, and the parameters within which they're judged, are wide enough to accommodate a 747. They really have very little to worry about unless they're blatantly breaking rules, or making obvious unethical decisions, (see Joey Crawford). The grey area is big enough that they can make pretty much any call they want, within the boundaries of the rule book, without fear of reproach ... hence the equation: white + black = grey.

All this taken into consideration, it really doesn't serve much purpose to complain .... they'll continue to do what they need to do, and this will always be the official's game, NOT the players' ... but we STILL have the right to voice our displeasure. It's a bit therapeutic for me, and it seems the least I can do for my team. We can NEVER depend on the benefit of the calls ... it just is not going to happen on a consistent basis. This team has got the tools to win without the refs' help, and that's exactly how they have to approach every game. 

But please, don't tell me I can't complain about the refs ... and please, don't tell me they're not biased ... I've got eyes and ears, and that's all the proof I need!

No one is saying you can't complain about refs. You can also claim that Bush planned 9/11 and that we never landed on the moon. I await your YouTube video exposing the NBA referee cover-up.

But you already admitted your bias so we know the real source of your complaints. Not all calls are going your way.

The league is fine with series that aren't competitive. Look at the Lakers series.

For every person like you on this board, there is a person complaining on an Atlanta board about the refs not calling the "obvious" fouls the Celtics were administering to the Hawks.

You have the right to complain, and I have the right to roll my eyes.

First of all, if you knew me, you'd know I would never claim such things, but politics is one subject I think we should all leave alone here ... completely.

Secondly, I'm a Celtic fan, why wouldn't I, or shouldn't I, be biased for my team? I make no apologies for that, that's what being a fan is about ... if you don't favor your team over others, why be a fan anyway?

Thirdly, to imply that that's the only reason I see it the way I do, or that I am not intelligent enough to rely on other faculties to asses officiating, or to assume that officials never do anything worthy of reproach, is incorrect.

In addition, when did I say there was a "referee coverup"? When did I say I expected "all calls" to go my way? That's absurd, and selling me short ... big-time. That's really condescending, and I said nothing that deserved that kind of response.

Wow ... I was trying to put forth good discussion here, not get slammed for my opinion. If you want to think the refs are always completely fair and objective, that's fine ... I'm sure they appreciate it. I admire you for your convictions, and allow you your opinions ... but because I don't see it the same way, doesn't mean it's not so.

Personally, I try not to roll my eyes ... I've learned it encourages an attitude that keeps me from seeing things in another's perspective. I understand where you're coming from here, and it's valid ... TP for you. Just happen to think mine's valid, too ... but as we both know, bias is the real source of my complaints.

Man, don't like this kind of argument ... thought we were always on the same team. Oh, well ... peace anyway, GW.

[cdif911]

so far this series the hawks have shot 49 (4+14+2+15+14 respectively) more free throws than the celtics....49!!! almost 10 a game...im not sure how this is possible as the celtics have been taking it to the rim...at one point during the game josh smith had more attempts than the entire team...i mean its one thing if the celts were taking all jumpers, but what is going on with the refereeing in this series?

Welcome to the board Tommy...I didn't know you knew how to use a computer

[sns0274]

I think anyone can complain about the officiating and on any given night can feel that the calls did or didn't go our way. That being said, I believe that we are all fallible and mistakes will be made, it is the nature of the beast. I just don't think anyone can say "that call caused us a loss". The reason actually has many faces, but on any given night, the blown calls are pretty close to equal, we just don't see it that way. Using last night as an example, although it appeared to some, that the refs were biased in some of their calls, there were just as many equally bad calls going with us rather than against us.

The league's officiating teams are under a microscope (as well they should be)The betting scandals have made it where people believe a lot less in the officiating and rightly so. If the NBA could just police their own, they would probably find a lot less arguing involved.

How many times do you witness in the course of a game, the 3 second call, or traveling or even palming. They just don't call this stuff any more. The fundamentals of the game are what is suffering. If the league would crack down on this kind of stuff, I believe they would find a lot less arguing and a lot more basketball being played. Right along with less complaints from the fan base.

[FanInTheSouth]

Missed calls and wrong calls are and always will be a problem in this league.  It's Human Nature to  err and it's not going to change.  I usually try not to be too judgemental about it (especially since the DVR), since the refs are up close to the action and I have the benefit of instant replay.  There have been multiple times that I have thought one of our guys got called for a foul incorrectly, and only after rewatching it 4-5 times do I see the contact that actually was the foul.

It's understandable that there are games when things start snowballing, and there are definitely times when it seems like the refs get the calls wrong for one side more than the other.  But I personally don't believe that the refs are out to get us (not in this series at least, maybe in others). 

It is perfectly normal to notice more of the missed calls that go against your team than those that go for your team, again, it's human nature.  I think that the important thing is that you contextualize it and realize that we won by 25 points last night.  It probably isn't the best time to be shouting that they are out to get us.  As stated in a previous post, we WERE fouling a lot last night. 

I'm not trying to upset anyone, but I just think that before people start jumping up and down about officiating, it might be prudent to take a closer look and see how many bad calls there were (going both ways) before deciding that there is a problem with the refs.  I'm not even sure if there was something that I missed last night that created this post, but it appears the original concept was based off of the FT differential, which is a very poor indicator of how closely a game is being called. 

[IowaGuy]

The ref's have been terrible this series, but they have been terrible in the other games i've watched too.  Did anybody see the end of the Cavs/Wiz game last night?  They bailed Lebron out to put him at the line (he traveled hard core) and they went up two.  The next play Butler got hit right on the arm 10 feet from the official (it was on Bron and we all know he doesnt foul) going down the center of the lane....no call and a fast break the other way for a D west layup & 1.  That's a 5 point swing all on bad calls all within the last 2 minutes of the game.  Luckily the refs decided they didnt need to bail out Lebron on the last play of the game....I was very pleased they didnt (and surprised).

The refs in our game last night started out great but then they had an official meeting during one of the timeouts.  It was right after Powes second offensive foul that he drew.  Woodson chewed on Dick Bevetta and then Dick called over the other officials and had a talk with them.  we didnt get one offensive foul the rest of the game!  PP was in position on 2 charges that were called as blocks and I know the Dick said...no more charges against ATL.  I saw the meeting right before they went to commercial and said to my girlfriend....The refs are going to change when we come back from the break and they sure did.  The back to back 3 second calls to start the 4th were rediculous.  The first one Powe got out of the lane but Dick didnt see him and on the next one Posey got slapped on a screen and they call 3 seconds on him even though as soon as he could get up he litterly sprinted out of the lane.  He wasn't posting up or hanging around...he was trying to leave the lane.  If you want proof just count the number of illegal defensive 3 second calls on ATL this series....I have counted a total of 0.  Josh Smith is in the lane the entire time we have the ball but somehow never gets called for it while we pick up offensive 3 second calls like they are going out of style.  We even have a few defensive ones to boot.  The refs better get on their game.  If I didnt have so much love for the green and white I don't think I could bring myself to watch the NBA anymore.

[wdleehi]

The Hawks are getting more shooting fouls, Celtics are getting a lot of on the floor calls. 



Another difference, the Celtics players are either stepping in front of drivers (such they get more charges) or going up strong. 


How many open layups did the Celtics get because Atlanta's defense didn't rotate?   


Throw in the fact that the officials don't give Perkins, Powe and Davis the respect that they can make many of the stops they do, you end up with more shooting fouls. 

[CelticsWhat35]

There can always be perfectly good explanations to explain such a large discrepency in foul shooting, and some of them have been mentioned.  But the officiating in this series has been plain awful, and aside from game 1, totally in favor of the Hawks.  I'm not saying that's why the Celtics lost games 3 and 4.  I think last night's game was probably one of the worst ref'd games and they still won by 25.  But I'm just sick of seeing this young, inexperienced team getting the benefit of the doubt time after time over this veteran Celtics team.

How often did we have to hear about the excuses when the Celtics of Big Al, Perk, Delonte, Gerald, etc. would get out-shot at the line by 20 a night, and it just be chalked up to the fact that they were young and young players don't get the same calls that vets do.  Well what is Kevin Garnett?  What is Paul Pierce?  Ray Allen?

When you have Josh Smith taking more free throws than the entire Celtics team in the 4th quarter, something is wrong.  Aside from the fact that 4-6 of Smith's free throws were on bogus calls, how do the Celtics only take 9 free throw attempts that late in a game when they're taking it to the hoop all night?

[BringToughnessBack]

If I was on a deserted island for the past 20 years and came back to watch this series without knowing anything about the players/teams, I would assume based on the large discrepancy in fouls that Hawks must have the veterans who are getting respect while the Celtics have the inexperienced youth(Yes I know Pierce, KG and RA don't look young) who are getting the majority of questionable calls. Yesterday we won in spite of the difference(could have been a 35 point blowout). I have seen on more then one occasion in this series our players feet planted with no movement and still we get called for the blocking fouls but when we are down on the other end of the court on offense, the calls have been ignored all together.

I do not remember a game this series where in the first 5 minutes-one if not more of our players had already accumulated 2 fouls. I believe it was the last game in Atlanta that 4 of 5 starters had 2 fouls within the first quarter..that is ridiculous, aggressive D or not, I do not remember that happening frequently during the regular season, especially against a team that does not deserve the benefit of the doubt due to there inexperience.  Look at our team last year, we had many youngsters..got many fouls called against us and deservedly so.

I look forward to getting out of this series and seeing different refs(I hope).

Celtic Fan or not, the officiating has been more then questionable and biased in favor of a team filled with youth.

[2short]

For all the cleaning up of image the nba has done they have missed something very important:
the officiating many times resembles WWF wrestling
The stars get special treatment (all teams) ,have for years (see jordan).  Officiating like this in any other sport would not happen.
I do agree with the style of play and our defense which will skew the free throw numbers

[yall hate]

I really dont see how anyone who has watched the series can claim without bias that the increased number of Hawks freethrows to celtics is a result of Officiating bias or anything else shady.  Of course there have been some bad calls, but that will happen in any series.

1. The hawks attack the basket.  The celtics dont.  Naturally, fouls that occur on the celtics will be when the hawks are attacking the basket.

2. The notion that older players should get more calls then young players is stupid.  whether it happens or not that is another thing, but a foul is a foul whether the player is a rookie or a vet.

3. The officiating hasnt been biased...