Author Topic: My LONG pre-game 5 rant  (Read 5503 times)

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My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« on: April 30, 2008, 11:25:48 AM »

Offline drza44

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I haven't been able to post since the last game, and I have some things that I want to get off my chest today.  This series against the Hawks could either be the best, or the worst thing to happen to this Celtics team.  Worst case scenario: if they lose, they supplant the Mavericks as the biggest upset in history and given the age/history of KG/Pierce/Allen, it is conceivable that they would not recover.  And I'd be too sick to watch the rest of what really has been a great season in the NBA.

On the other hand, the Celts have really cruised through much of the season without having to make adjustments/define themselves.  They had not played a meaningful game in almost a month, and if they can beat the Hawks one could argue that it was good for the team to have to define its playoff roles and solve some issues early before they faced a crisis against a better team in a later round and could not recover.  So, what are these issues that need to be worked out...

1) Identity.  The "conventional wisdom" is that a team doesn't completely overhaul and win a title that same year, and after scoffing at that all season I am seeing the wisdom in the statement now.  I don't think it's a coincidence that the Celtics, Suns, and Mavs all have played below expectations in these playoffs.  The big problem, IMO, is that with a new team people don't know their roles yet.  When the Spurs are in a difficult situation they don't panic, because they know what they do.  They know what role Duncan will play, what Ginobili will do, how Parker should react, and what the role players need to do.  The Celts, Suns, and Mavs all have displayed various degrees of impotence in the face of post-season pressure, and a good bit of that is because when times get tough no one is really sure how they're supposed to react.  This is a big problem on Boston, because there are 3 (maybe 4) players who are used to being The Man on their team, and in order for that to mesh in the regular season they all had to subsume their individual games and buy into the team concept.  But the team needs an identity, a hierarchy for tough game situations, and they need it now.  Hopefully they figure this out now, against the Hawks, and can then apply it going forward.

2) Leadership.  This ties somewhat into the previous point, but it deserves its own bullet.  Someone has to be the one to step forward and decide what to do in tough situations.  Generally it is either the coach and/or the best player, but Doc is inexperienced and GPA all seem to be trying to be co-best players.  There's got to be a head to this beast.  I think that this is why the Lakers have not had any trouble integrating Gasol into the line-up, because Kobe and Phil are still the clear-cut heads of the team.  On Boston, Pierce has the seniority but KG has the most talent.  One of them has to step to the fore.  I'd like to see it be KG, especially in this series, as the Hawks have no answer for him.  But if KG can't/won't then it has to be Pierce.  Someone has to do it.

3) Shot selection in crunch time.  As Doc pointed out 2 games ago, when the Celts get down everyone seems to want to be the one to take the big shot.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of those shots are jumpers and often-times they come off the 1-on-1 and not from the team offense.  They entered the 4th quarter up by 10, and proceeded to shoot jumper after jumper after jumper the whole time that Atlanta was closing the gap and taking the lead.  In those types of situations, every possession should include either a dribble-drive by Pierce (or Rondo) and/or a touch by KG in the post.  And even if they break down the defense to get an open 22 footer, sometimes those shots should be past upon to re-post to KG after he kicks it out.  Don't just make it easy for the defense to defend and rebound one long jumper after another.

4) Recognition/adjustments.  Last game drove me crazy, even before the loss.  All season Doc has played Posey at PF in crunch time with KG at center...why now, in one matchup where that would actually be PERFECT, did he go away from that?  KG on Smith was a bad matchup for us last game because 1) Smith was knocking down the 22-footer consistently, forcing KG out of the paint and 2) KG can't help off Smith, meaning that when Johnson drove there weren't any shotblockers.  Why not put Posey in, have him guard Smith (whose really just a SF that can jump), and let KG guard Horford?  Or, another option, since Johnson was (consistently, repeatedly) killing Ray Allen and Pierce was in foul trouble...why not put Posey on Johnson and Pierce on Smith, then let Ray guard Childress?  Why just lose, with the same line-up getting abused repeatedly with the same play?

Bottom line: even before they won game 5 last night, the Pistons were in a better position than the Celtics because they really do know how to play in the playoffs...they just don't always have the effort there.  I thought that was really, really bad...but it's even worse when the effort IS there, like it's been with the Celts, and the team loses anyway.  The Celtics need to work smarter not harder to win these last 2 games.  And they need to address some of these issues.  If they do, then they'll be better prepared for the rest of the playoffs.  If they don't...I don't even want to think about it.

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2008, 11:29:35 AM »

Offline Redz

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I'd like to see a 20 rebound night from KG.  That would tell me the Celtics are closer to where they need to be.
Yup

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 11:53:54 AM »

Offline justice

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This game really should be the defining moment of the season for this team...

We can either come out and get out-played and show a lack of confidence and show that Atlanta is in our heads or we can go out and smack them around like our team should, no matter how talented or athletic the Hawks are.

If we squeek out a win tonight, I don't feel much better about this team's chances down the line in this series or beyond.

drza44 is right in that this team has not had the luxury that team's like Detroit and San Antonio have had in that those team's had been together for some time and have the experience as a unit to react to adversity...But unfortunately for us, we don't have a choice. This team was assembled last summer to win NOW. A first round loss to a team which won about 30 games less than we did during the season would be a monumental disaster. But I'm hoping that even the thought of it has not entered the Celtics minds because that would be bad. We need to come out and show our dominance in Game 5.

Here's hoping we go out and do our business, just like we did the rest of the year....I believe that we can erase the doubts that are in many people's minds about our team at the moment, but we have to start TONIGHT

LETS GO CELTICS

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 12:14:39 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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3) Shot selection in crunch time.  As Doc pointed out 2 games ago, when the Celts get down everyone seems to want to be the one to take the big shot.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of those shots are jumpers and often-times they come off the 1-on-1 and not from the team offense.  They entered the 4th quarter up by 10, and proceeded to shoot jumper after jumper after jumper the whole time that Atlanta was closing the gap and taking the lead.  In those types of situations, every possession should include either a dribble-drive by Pierce (or Rondo) and/or a touch by KG in the post.  And even if they break down the defense to get an open 22 footer, sometimes those shots should be past upon to re-post to KG after he kicks it out.  Don't just make it easy for the defense to defend and rebound one long jumper after another.

I really liked your whole post, but this part particularly stuck out to me, since it was really something I hadn't totally harped on but should have. You're absolutely right. That was another major reason I was so upset we went into the fourth with House, Ray, Posey, Powe and KG (and were misusing Posey badly by putting him on Childress instead of Smith or Johnson). House and Posey don't create offense, they get open for jumpshots. Powe picks up baskets with offensive boards and by getting open down low when somebody penetrates or is double teamed. KG doesn't take people off the dribble, he can score in the post (though he doesn't do it often enough) and mostly just hits midrange jumpers. Ray has impressed me most this year by his ability to take people off the dribble, because I didn't know how well he could do that, but he also doesn't do that often. We had 3-4 outside shooters and a garbage bucket guy in there. Not one guy who takes their man off the dribble consistently. Jump shooters get you back in a game, but guys who take their man off the dribble, create contact and disrupt defenses, like Pierce and Rondo and to a lesser extent Cassell, are the guys who protect leads. It was downright stupid, to me, that none of those guys were in there when we started the 4th with a 10 point lead. If Pierce couldn't play because of foul trouble, Rondo should have been in there. That was a great point you made, and earned one for you.

I'm optimistic they'll make the necessary adjustments and hopefully get back to the team defense that made this team great in the first place. Big victory tonight, go Celtics.
Go Celtics.

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 12:29:19 PM »

Offline Tommy Gun

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Defense match ups are the key..If Johnson is going off double team him..Make someone else beat you..Are you listening DOC
See, this is why I'm not allowed to announce NBA games -- I'd be talking in the Cookie Monster voice right now:

Ahhhhhhhhhh ... my knee hurts ... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh ... me don't like when my knee hurts ...

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 12:36:48 PM »

Offline timpiker

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I appreciate your long rant and agree with all of it I think.  I tossed and turned all night Monday night thinking of all the things that went wrong.  

1.  This team was hardly ever challenged all year long.  It was too easy.  They averaged 10 plus points in their wins.  Looking back, it would have been better to have an average win margin of 2 points.  They just do not know how to play during crunch time.  Way early this year I felt that was their number 1 goal - learn how to play at crunch time because you know the Spurs and the Pistons know.

2.  I think there's something to that "choke" reputatin that KG got at MN.  How many times was he intimidated at taking a short within 5 feet of the basket?  Josh Smith has rattled and intimidated KG.  Even some guy named Zaza has bothered him.  KG was just throwing up shots like he thought he'd get points just for hitting the backboard.  He looked scared.

3.  Doc has bascially destryoed team chemistry.  What bench?  All year long the bench came through and Doc has ruined it.  When they do come in they play like Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..  No confidence.  How many times this year did Eddie House save our asses?  The only guy off the bench who's playing well is James Posey.  We were going 5-7 deep now what are we?  2 or 3?  Thanks Doc.  I have never been a Doc-basher before but this series just ruined my confidence in Doc Rivers as a coach.

4.  Paul Pierce is the only guy on this team that can be a big time crunch time player.  For some reaosn, probably because he's just cruised all year, he sits back way too much.  He's too passive because he's been trained all year long to give up the rock.  The probelm we have is that the Ray Allen's and KG's just are not capable of performing in a close game.

Hell, maybe they're all just a bunch of CHOKERS.  Exactly what has Atlanta done to tear this year all down?  Let's see - HUSTLE, FAST BREAK AND HIT THE OPEN SHOTS.  Is that all it takes?  Apparently so.

And here's another DOC screw-up - all year we have RUN with this team.  What are we doing now?  Walking up the ball.  What the hell is that?  We are walking up the ball because we are afraid of Atlanta's athleticsm.  By walking up the ball we are showing the Hawks that we are AFRAID of them.

The reaosn Atlanta has a great fast break going?  Because we can't rebound worth a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. Hey KG - where's the 20 rebounds at?  or are you too afraid at offedning Zaza or Josh Smith?  

I know its only 2 games but these Celtics played like LAP DOGS.

Now, I've got it off my chest.  I sure hope I get more sleep tonight than I did Monday night.


Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 12:56:26 PM »

Offline section6

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I don't disagree with anything in the rant. It's pretty spot on. For me things are simpler though. I want to see the celtics dive on lose balls on the floor. I want to see them protect the paint. I want to see them be the aggressor and get physical. I want them to show me that they want it more. If that doesn't happen then they're in big trouble regardless of whether they win tonight.

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 01:13:40 PM »

Offline jkron33

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I want to see the type of defense that they played when they went into Texas and beat Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston. That was DEFENSE. At the end of the Houston game, when we snapped there 20 something game winning streak, Tracy McGrady said, "that is the best defense he has ever seen"! Where the heck is that now? We need that in order to compete and to win in the playoffs. Our defense has been our offensive stimulus all season long and we look asleep now, when it counts most. I don't get it. Bring back that intensity that we had in Houston, and we will win.

Re: My LONG pre-game 5 rant
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 01:35:28 PM »

Offline Who

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I haven't been able to post since the last game, and I have some things that I want to get off my chest today.  This series against the Hawks could either be the best, or the worst thing to happen to this Celtics team.  Worst case scenario: if they lose, they supplant the Mavericks as the biggest upset in history and given the age/history of KG/Pierce/Allen, it is conceivable that they would not recover.  And I'd be too sick to watch the rest of what really has been a great season in the NBA.

On the other hand, the Celts have really cruised through much of the season without having to make adjustments/define themselves.  They had not played a meaningful game in almost a month, and if they can beat the Hawks one could argue that it was good for the team to have to define its playoff roles and solve some issues early before they faced a crisis against a better team in a later round and could not recover.  So, what are these issues that need to be worked out...
I don't think there's any possible good out of this series with Atlanta. A couple close games, well okay, but Atlanta took them out in games 3+4. They tied the series. The Celtics did not look confident on the floor. No way ever is that going to become a good thing when it happens against a 37 win team that is nowhere close to the caliber of teams they're going to face.

This self doubt is very very likely to come back and it's to come back harder than before and it's going to come against a better team that's going to make them pay for it.

If this were Detroit were reasonable expectations could have them winning games and making the series close, then there's a lot of value out of that the recovery.

But a 37 win Mickey Mouse ball club that doesn't defend well or run a good offense? That's just going to hurt. That's just going to stick in their heads every signle time when adversity comes against a better team and they will very likely be thinking about how they failed to handle the situation.

I don't see any good. Just bad.