Who should play more, who less? / Tony Allen better be (merged)

[Who]

First off the last thing the Celtics want to do is try to outrun the younger, more athletic Hawks, especially with Tony Allen leading the break.

I want the Celtics to run the Hawks off the floor. I don't care out athletic they are, we're better at it. That's all that matters.

The only reason Atlanta is able to run so much against us is because we're dogging it in the halfcourt, taking contested shots (a lot of one-on-one play there too) which are missing at a big clip giving them the opportunity to run right at us.

So they're getting all those easy fastbreak baskets while the Celts are getting none. That's not good. That's a problem. They have to run back or shoot the lights out on contest jump shots. They control the first part, so push the ball already.

[BASSTHUMPER]

we got old legs...they got young legs...they out run us for longer periods...we got burnt out in the 1st qt..we cant run with this team the way we are...get allen and scalabrine in the game...they mix it up and we got to do the same...big baby and very sad and sorry to say powe pimpin aint doin it for us..time to make a line up change..cause if they win in boston it's gonna be time to break out the johnny mathis  greatest hits cause it's clear we cant win in Atl..

[CelticSteve]

Shortening the rotation in the playoffs is a must- but yesterday was the perfect situation to insert Tony. First, I think it is better to try and keep the rotations consistent for the backups (unless by pre-planning you want to change it up). So, when Paul exits early for foul trouble, why bring Posey in immediately? It is a perfect time to insert Tony- whose game is more similar to Paul’s, and won’t throw off the style of play. Then you insert Posey when his time comes. Second, when a player is going off in the 4th quarter against decent, but not great defenders, why not counter his play by inserting an above average defender with fresh legs? Tony! Don’t let Tony be your point guard, because he can’t be trusted not to turn the ball over, but let him play the 2-guard even if only for a few minutes- to disrupt the other team’s hot hand- (Joe Johnson). I know Tony plays better with more consistent minutes, but his primary purpose would have been defense- which he could play well even with fewer minutes.  Doc has his positives, but I don’t know that situational rotations is one of them.   

[nickagneta]

First off the last thing the Celtics want to do is try to outrun the younger, more athletic Hawks, especially with Tony Allen leading the break.

I want the Celtics to run the Hawks off the floor. I don't care out athletic they are, we're better at it. That's all that matters.

The only reason Atlanta is able to run so much against us is because we're dogging it in the halfcourt, taking contested shots (a lot of one-on-one play there too) which are missing at a big clip giving them the opportunity to run right at us.

So they're getting all those easy fastbreak baskets while the Celts are getting none. That's not good. That's a problem. They have to run back or shoot the lights out on contest jump shots. They control the first part, so push the ball already.

I agree Who that the Celtics need to run the ball more and get upcourt before the defense settles in. I also agree they should be looking to outlet better to initate the fast break and take it when it is there.

To me it just seemed like the poster was implying we get into a track meet with the Hawks in an up and down game. That would be fatal. Run it upcourt, beat the unset defense, break when the oportunity presents itself every single time. But we can end this team in the halfcourt and an out and out fastbreakathon is not in the best interests of this team.

[wdleehi]

I think it is to late to throw Tony Allen in there. 


He has been sitting to long.  We all know it takes multiple games for Tony Allen to get his game in gear. 

[Shamrock]

Tony Allen, Eddie House, Powe and Big Baby played significant roles in helping the C's achieve a 66 game winning record.

Cassell - didn't help much and neither did PJ. 

So - why are we not going with the players that helped us to get to the playoffs in the first place?

Cassell is killing us out there.

[celts55]

Okay, let me start by saying that I have been a TA basher and still don't really like his game, but even I was screaming for him in the 4th. WHY even keep him on the team if not for a situation like last night. Johnson was killing Ray, Pierce and Posey. Tony is supposed to be a defensive stopper. That's really his only role with this team. Why in the world would you not at least give him a chance? I love Ray, as much as I can love a man, but it was apparent that they was no way he could stop Johnson. If they are not going to put TA in a situation like that, why even bother dressing him? Might as well dress Scal. I also wouldn't have minded seeing PJ Brown a little bit. As a veteran he would at least have known enought to knock JJ on his butt when he kept driving to the hoop at will.

[Mr October]

I'm coming around on this one. Ray was abused on defense. TA should get some burn. While we are at it, Ray shouldn't be playing 45 minutes either!! He should be around 36-38 a game.

Why was Ray up on Johnson 30 feet from the basket anyway? Why wasn't Rondo in Bibby's face all the time? What is going on defensively in the back court??

[IdahoGreen]

I completely agree.  Every team will match up differently, and for the Hawks, our best bet is to have a rotation of:
Rondo
RAllen / TAllen
Pierce / Posey
Garnett / Powe
Perkins

with just a bit of Davis and Cassell.

Round 2 will be different.  We would have more Eddie House against a team like the Cavs or the Wiz.

[Who]

I completely agree.  Every team will match up differently, and for the Hawks, our best bet is to have a rotation of:
Rondo
RAllen / TAllen
Pierce / Posey
Garnett / Powe
Perkins

with just a bit of Davis and Cassell.

Round 2 will be different.  We would have more Eddie House against a team like the Cavs or the Wiz.

I want Tony in the lineup but I don't want him anywhere near the point. Him running our already suffering offense is not needed. I don't want Ray Allen running the offense either. Tony can't be the only guard to come off the bench and he can't be the only wing because Posey is better.

Minutes at shooting guard? I'm fine with that. Eddie House needs to come back in. He and Posey should get the majority of minutes off the bench (say 16-22 minutes just to put a number on it). Then short spells of 5-10 minutes from Tony and a big man, Glen Davis would be my preferred choice I think he's a better defensive option right now.

[BASSTHUMPER]

Tony Allen, Eddie House, Powe and Big Baby played significant roles in helping the C's achieve a 66 game winning record.

doc should have never messed with what was working..

[Who]

Tony Allen, Eddie House, Powe and Big Baby played significant roles in helping the C's achieve a 66 game winning record.

doc should have never messed with what was working..

Danny Ainge messed with it first. He's the one that signed PJ and Sam for these roles. It was always going to be extremely difficult to get a rotation down after they arrived.

[rondohondo]

I completely agree.  Every team will match up differently, and for the Hawks, our best bet is to have a rotation of:
Rondo
RAllen / TAllen
Pierce / Posey
Garnett / Powe
Perkins

with just a bit of Davis and Cassell.

Round 2 will be different.  We would have more Eddie House against a team like the Cavs or the Wiz.

I want Tony in the lineup but I don't want him anywhere near the point. Him running our already suffering offense is not needed. I don't want Ray Allen running the offense either. Tony can't be the only guard to come off the bench and he can't be the only wing because Posey is better.

Minutes at shooting guard? I'm fine with that. Eddie House needs to come back in. He and Posey should get the majority of minutes off the bench (say 16-22 minutes just to put a number on it). Then short spells of 5-10 minutes from Tony and a big man, Glen Davis would be my preferred choice I think he's a better defensive option right now.

There's no way you can convince me that eddie house deserves minutes over TA at the shooting guard in this series. Did you see the shots he was taking last night? he was off by A LOT even missing the rim a few times. House is just going to be another jump shooter ,while TA actually takes the ball to the hoop(he is the only bench player that has the ability to get to the rim on a consistent basis. Plus he is a good defensive player and has the size and speed to match up with Joe Johnson and mike biby. This is how the rotation should go for the rest of the series IMO

PG: RR 40 mins  Cassell 8mins
SG: RA 35 mins  TA 13 mins
SF: PP 35-40 mins Posey 10-15 mins
PF: KG 38+ mins  Davis or PJ 10 mins(Powe not getting it     
                                     done on D)
C: Perk 30 mins  PJ 5-10 MINS   KG 5-10 mins

of course you can never tell exactly how many mins a game a player will need to be in there, but I would like to see Tony get in there for sure in key defensive plays at the very least. If Perk gets suspended then start KG at C and let Big baby start at PF .

[ScoobyDoo]

Doc's rotations have always baffled me since he's been here so the lats few games have been no real suprise to be honest. However, I'm curious to know who you'd play more and why and who you'd play less and why in this series?

here's my list:

Who I'd play more and why:

PJ Brown: I'd bring him in every time I saw Pachulia getting off the bench. PJ is exactly the type of player you need in a series like this. We are getting outsorked on the boards, they are getting alot of offensive rebounds. PJ knows how to get away with the banging and shoving underneath and he's a great defensive rebounder.

Tony Allen: He'll make some mistakes but in a heated, physical series like this you need street fighters, that's all Tony. I'd use him to deny Joe Johnson the ball and tell him to attack the rim as well.

James Posey: on Joe Johnson...alot. alot. Ray allen is absolutely no match defensively for Joe Johnson. That is a massive defensive liability. As someone else said the fact that Doc left Ray on JJ down the stretch was incomprehensible to me and to his kid who doesn't even like BBall that much.

Big Baby: and I tell him to make sure people "feel it" as well.

Eddie House: I'd get him earlier and get him going, see if he's on. I'd try him before I'd try Cassell.

Gabe Pruitt: yes, believe it or not, I would actually give him some burn against Law or Bibby really. If he held his own I'd let him play. If he made a qucik mistake I'd yank him and then try him again next game, give him a shot. He has the athleticism to play in this series.

Rondo: He needs to be playing about 40+ minutes a night in this sereis and he needs to be getting into the lane.

Who I'd play less:

Sam Cassell: The Hawks are very athletic and Cassell is not a very good match up for AC Law on the second unit. I'm not saying I wouldn't play Sam But I'd be more judicious with his time.

Ray Allen: In this series I'd consider using Posey and Pierce on Smith and Johnson. Posey is crafty enough to handle him around the basket and tenacious enough to stay up under Smith on the perimeter.     

[Who]

I completely agree.  Every team will match up differently, and for the Hawks, our best bet is to have a rotation of:
Rondo
RAllen / TAllen
Pierce / Posey
Garnett / Powe
Perkins

with just a bit of Davis and Cassell.

Round 2 will be different.  We would have more Eddie House against a team like the Cavs or the Wiz.

I want Tony in the lineup but I don't want him anywhere near the point. Him running our already suffering offense is not needed. I don't want Ray Allen running the offense either. Tony can't be the only guard to come off the bench and he can't be the only wing because Posey is better.

Minutes at shooting guard? I'm fine with that. Eddie House needs to come back in. He and Posey should get the majority of minutes off the bench (say 16-22 minutes just to put a number on it). Then short spells of 5-10 minutes from Tony and a big man, Glen Davis would be my preferred choice I think he's a better defensive option right now.

There's no way you can convince me that eddie house deserves minutes over TA at the shooting guard in this series. Did you see the shots he was taking last night? he was off by A LOT even missing the rim a few times. House is just going to be another jump shooter ,while TA actually takes the ball to the hoop(he is the only bench player that has the ability to get to the rim on a consistent basis. Plus he is a good defensive player and has the size and speed to match up with Joe Johnson and mike biby. This is how the rotation should go for the rest of the series IMO

PG: RR 40 mins  Cassell 8mins
SG: RA 35 mins  TA 13 mins
SF: PP 35-40 mins Posey 10-15 mins
PF: KG 38+ mins  Davis or PJ 10 mins(Powe not getting it     
                                     done on D)
C: Perk 30 mins  PJ 5-10 MINS   KG 5-10 mins

of course you can never tell exactly how many mins a game a player will need to be in there, but I would like to see Tony get in there for sure in key defensive plays at the very least. If Perk gets suspended then start KG at C and let Big baby start at PF .

I said I wanted Tony Allen at shooting guard. House at the point. TA at the off guard. House playing more minutes than TA.

Anyway ... there was one other part of your post just because I can't pass up a Mike Bibby reference. I could care less about matching up with Mike Bibby. He's nothing. Every guard on our roster (maybe even Sam) can defend Mike Bibby. We don't need TA to defend him. He's a 20 foot jump shooter who hardly ever succesfully takes someone off the dribble, heck Eddie House is a good penetrator, maybe better, than Mike Bibby is. Age and lack of intelligence has taken that from him.

...............

This have anything to do with your post really, just in general.

Tony's like 6-4 210. Joe Johnson is 6-7 240 with a superb post game. If Joe plays smart he can beat Tony Allen with ease. Tony isn't some be all and end all defensive option on Joe Johnson.