Who should play more, who less? / Tony Allen better be (merged)

[Steve Weinman]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

[NoraG1]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

And Zaza and Hawks will get off unscathed as they have so far this series. Just likie Pierce is fined and Horford gets no fine with his taunting and gesturing.

[Bahku]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

I wouldn't be a bit surprised at this point, Steve ... where this team is concerned, I'm beginning to wind my way into that ever-capricious world of "Expect Anything"!

[Steve Weinman]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

And Zaza and Hawks will get off unscathed as they have so far this series. Just likie Pierce is fined and Horford gets no fine with his taunting and gesturing.

Worth noting on that front: If Perk is indeed gone for a game, I would certainly expect Marvin Williams to meet the same fate.  He was doing the same thing across the floor -- a half-step out onto the court.

-sw

[NoraG1]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

And Zaza and Hawks will get off unscathed as they have so far this series. Just likie Pierce is fined and Horford gets no fine with his taunting and gesturing.

Worth noting on that front: If Perk is indeed gone for a game, I would certainly expect Marvin Williams to meet the same fate.  He was doing the same thing across the floor -- a half-step out onto the court.

-sw

One would think so but I have my doubts that they will do anything against the Hawks after what has transpired so far. 

[Steve Weinman]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

And Zaza and Hawks will get off unscathed as they have so far this series. Just likie Pierce is fined and Horford gets no fine with his taunting and gesturing.

Worth noting on that front: If Perk is indeed gone for a game, I would certainly expect Marvin Williams to meet the same fate.  He was doing the same thing across the floor -- a half-step out onto the court.

-sw

One would think so but I have my doubts that they will do anything against the Hawks after what has transpired so far. 

I hear ya...but I dunno, so far as the altercation was concerned tonight, I think we'd be hard-pressed to say we got the raw end of the deal, no?  Seemed to me like the techs were assessed rather fairly, and that we were lucky it didn't escalate.  Needless to say trading KG for Zaza doesn't work for us.

-sw

[Bahku]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

of course the starting 5 will be playing, but tony needs to take sam cassell and eddie house's minutes for the rest of this series at the shooting guard. They are not athletic or quick enough to stay with johnson, TA can play 10 mins of solid D and make a few drives to the hoop when pierce and rondo are not in the game.

That was sarcasm and irony, because they played poorly ... I know they'll be playing.

While I don't mean to play semantics and pull attention away from your point, Bahku -- as it was a good one -- I wouldn't be so quick to make any guarantees about the entirety of the starting five.  There's certainly a shot that we could be without Perk on Wednesday, no?  I wouldn't be shocked to hear from the league on Tuesday.

-sw

And Zaza and Hawks will get off unscathed as they have so far this series. Just likie Pierce is fined and Horford gets no fine with his taunting and gesturing.

Whenever I think of Pachulia, I get a little fantasy image of a scene from the Godfather Epic, when Andy Garcia is putting a hit on the head of the rival family, (played by Joe Montagna), is disguised as a mounted policeman, chases the guy down with his horse on the street, and as he shoots him he says his name: (Bang!) "Joey" (Bang!) "Zaza" (Bang!) "Michael Corleone sends his wishes" (Bang, bang!) ... and rides off on his police horse. (Or something to that effect). Whenever I see Pachulia, or hear his name, that scene comes to mind .... sorry, but he kinda brings that out in me.

[Steve Weinman]

The starting five had better be playing in game 5, cuz they weren't in this one. And they should be playing extended minutes. There's WAY too much rotation going on, and it totally messes up the chemistry on the floor and the momentum. Nice to have a deep bench, but we pay the stars big money to get a championship, and it's NOT going to happen with the bench on the floor! Give them a blow once in a while, and when there are foul problems, but please, Doc .... let the starting five earn their money, and play their hearts out!

Just so I don't completely hijack the thread, I think Bahku's comments here start to lead to the point that jumps out the most to me here, which is that this team needs to remember that it didn't win 66 games for nothing this season.  Rather than going into "throw stuff at the wall" mode, it seems that the most sensible course of action would be for this team to focus on the basics that got them to this point -- tight defense and patient ball movement, and under-control play.

This isn't to say that I would be completely opposed to taking a chance on TA as an energy spark, especially if things start going south in Game 5.  But at the same time, I hasten to point out -- as other posters have also to this point -- that it isn't entirely fair to expect a guy who was consistently out of control and erratic throughout the season to suddenly hold the magic elixir that this team needs to prevail over the Hawks.  It seems far more likely that said elixir would be held by the primary fellas who got us here.

-sw

[X Man]

I hear ya...but I dunno, so far as the altercation was concerned tonight, I think we'd be hard-pressed to say we got the raw end of the deal, no?  Seemed to me like the techs were assessed rather fairly, and that we were lucky it didn't escalate.  Needless to say trading KG for Zaza doesn't work for us.

-sw
[/quote]


Actually from my experience the past 3 seasons, a player stepping up to another player for a headbutt after the whistle is grounds for an automatic ejection...anyone see where I'm coming from with this???

[NoraG1]

I hear ya...but I dunno, so far as the altercation was concerned tonight, I think we'd be hard-pressed to say we got the raw end of the deal, no?  Seemed to me like the techs were assessed rather fairly, and that we were lucky it didn't escalate.  Needless to say trading KG for Zaza doesn't work for us.

-sw



Actually from my experience the past 3 seasons, a player stepping up to another player for a headbutt after the whistle is grounds for an automatic ejection...anyone see where I'm coming from with this???

'Not in this series'. I have been saying that alot about the reffing so far. It has been atociously one-sided at times.

[Steve Weinman]

I hear ya...but I dunno, so far as the altercation was concerned tonight, I think we'd be hard-pressed to say we got the raw end of the deal, no?  Seemed to me like the techs were assessed rather fairly, and that we were lucky it didn't escalate.  Needless to say trading KG for Zaza doesn't work for us.

-sw

Actually from my experience the past 3 seasons, a player stepping up to another player for a headbutt after the whistle is grounds for an automatic ejection...anyone see where I'm coming from with this???
[/quote]

Maybe I missed something, but I feel like Zaza stopped short of what I'd consider a headbutt -- and that even if he didn't, KG's elbow/shove/forearm shiver wasn't exactly angelic either.  Before I get jumped on here, I'm not 'hating' on KG in any regard -- if Zaza was on him after the whistle, I understand the reflexive reaction to get the guy off -- just suggesting that I don't think we can cry foul as of yet about how that particular situation was handled.

Either way, welcome to the site, X Man.  Looking forward to hearing more from you in the days to come, and an inaugural TP to ya for coming aboard this evening.

-sw

[X Man]

Thanks for TP...It made my night (or early morning) better.  I really enjoy the post game and appreciate you guys opening it up for calls.  Great place for post game venting (alhtough I don't like term "venting") I think "post game think tank" is more in order.     Game 5 is gonna have the Garden ROCKIN!!!!!

[nickagneta]

I read through this thread and am a bit perplexed by some of the going ons here.

First off the last thing the Celtics want to do is try to outrun the younger, more athletic Hawks, especially with Tony Allen leading the break.

Also, for those that want a player to go to the rim I think Rondo and Ray Allen have done a pretty decent job of going to the rim. I think where some improvement can take place is with Pierce not standing out at the 3 point line so much and taking his guy off the dribble. It would also help that when he finally does do this and gets fouled that he make his free throws.

Now I don't know if any of the guys and girl in this thread called for Doc to whittle down the rotation and not use all 12 guys in the playoffs, but there was a ton of discussion on this subject for the last 2 weeks of the season. Well, Doc did cut down the rotation and sat Tony and Eddie. Me I would have cut P J Brown and Tony from the rotation but that's a story for another time. My point being that Doc did what everyone wanted him to do and whenevr something doesn't go perfectly according to plan, lots of people are calling for Doc todo the exact opposite of what they were screaming for before the playoffs started.

The decision was made that Tony would sit. Now if the defense as a whole decides to return then it was the right decision. But if no one wants to backcover Ray Allen and give him support when Joe Johnson decides to go offmaybe, putting Tony in as a stopper would be a good thing. But as a shooting guard, not at the point.

[Mr Mark]

Good morning Tuesday morning quarterbacks, I mean point guards, whatever.  Who would have believed that we could lose the lead in the 4th quarter.  Who could believe that after shutting them down without a field goal in the first 5 minutes that they would have comeback so fast.  The Celtics showed their stuff, but so did Atlanta.  There was magic in that arena as the fans were treated to some of the best basketball their team has ever played.  The potential of this young team was unleashed and they were obviously underestimated.

The Celtic starters were hot, then they were cold.  We can second guess forever and that sells a lot of papers and creates a lot to blog about.  I believe that a little Tony Allen, Posey, and House could have shaken things up.  If that didn't work, we would all be ripping Doc a new one for that. 

Well, we have until Wednesday night to figure out how to deal with these young atheletes and emerging stars.  I have to give some respect to these players who played like champions.  If the best defensive team in the NBA, nay the best team in the NBA, can't figure it out and win when they come back to our house, then...  who are we kidding, this as just the lesson the Celtics need to take them through this series and to success over the likes of Howard, or Koby, or whoever we will have to face when it is all on the line.  I say let Celtics Pride take it's course and may the force be with us.  And some of you have given up, shame on you.  Celtics to the end in VICTORY!

[Zarex]

Whenever I think of Pachulia, I get a little fantasy image of a scene from the Godfather Epic, when Andy Garcia is putting a hit on the head of the rival family, (played by Joe Montagna), is disguised as a mounted policeman, chases the guy down with his horse on the street, and as he shoots him he says his name: (Bang!) "Joey" (Bang!) "Zaza" (Bang!) "Michael Corleone sends his wishes" (Bang, bang!) ... and rides off on his police horse. (Or something to that effect). Whenever I see Pachulia, or hear his name, that scene comes to mind .... sorry, but he kinda brings that out in me.

You're quoting Godfather 3?  We must really be in trouble.

With Atlanta not utilizing a "true" point guard in their rotation, I say utilize Ray Allen as your back up point and give Tony the third guard minutes.  This allows the C's to match up much better with the Hawks defensively, and you're not losing much of anything by sitting Cassell and House.