Author Topic: Possible #30 picks  (Read 55640 times)

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Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #135 on: May 31, 2008, 03:25:28 PM »

Offline cordobes

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1) If you want a backup center, draft Pekovic (if he agrees to join next season), not a college guy. And don't spend the 30# in an european prospect, trade down if that's the goal.

2) If not, draft a solid sg/sf ready to take TA's minutes next season.

3) Just trade it.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 03:34:25 PM by cordobes »

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #136 on: May 31, 2008, 03:41:15 PM »

Offline winsomme

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I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?



I agree that need should come into the equation at 30 (unless there is a talent much greater than the others available).  However, I believe that the C's do have a need on the wing. 

Currently they have Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey (although he could opt out and be gone), and Tony Allen.

Personally I think Tony Allen is on his way out.  He has not improved much since his rookie year, and he is running out of chances.  Not to mention, I believe that CDR, Walker, and Rush could all be better than Tony almost immediately.  You are right that they won't be getting minutes over Posey, however, in an 82 game season you need more than 3 guys for depth in those two positions (SG, SF).  Especially since Ray Allen seems to be breaking down a bit over the minutes he played this year, and IMO could really be helped by dropping down to 30 minutes or less per game.

If we are able to get a talented wing (like the 3 mentioned) who could come in and provide depth, and scoring off the bench, then I think that is absolutely filling a need.

That's a good point.  I suppose, however, that since we have some good players at that position, it's a less critical need than center.


Well, we have a heck of a starting center right now.  Perkins has solidified his spot in this team, and has played like one of the best defensive centers in the league throughout the playoffs, and has now started to even show some confidence on offense.

More importantly though, it is much tougher to find a rotation quality Center who can contribute right away than a rotation quality wing who can contribute right away.  I think there are a few guys who have some potential there, but no one you could actually count on filling a role anytime soon.

It makes much more sense to get a veteran big man to back up Perk, and using the pick to solidify the wing position (I think Rush, CDR, Walker, and Lee could all play right away).

If they did want to go after a project big man, I also think they would be much better off going after one of the more athletic ones.  The C's system really requires big men to have good mobility, and in general, athleticism translates more to the NBA for big men more than raw size.  So you are much better off taking a 6'11" guy who can move than a 7'2" guy who can't.

If they want to look at big men, they should be looking at guys like Hardin, Plaisted, Hickson, or Nathan Jawai.

If they really want a skilled big man with potential, they should try to move up a bit to get Kosta Koufos.  He has the potential to be a star, and is incredibly skilled both in the post and on the perimeter.


this is a great topic to distract what is going to be a painfully long five days -  especially since we have been spoiled up to now with at least one NBA game on every night for the past month and a half...

it's so hard to go from baseball to basketball because of the pace of game difference. baseball is probably my favorite sport, but it is really hard to go from one to the other right now..

anyway, i have been reading a lot about the summer camps and going in to them some of the guys that i liked were Hardin (obvious need at backup C) and a bunch of athletic wing players (another need as we saw in the Atlanta series).

overall it would be nice to add an athletic player. Hardin had really good workouts last draft season, but looks like he struggled at Cal this year.

i really liked that guy from Arkansas, Weems. he had a breakout game vs Indiana in the Tourney and he had some serious ups in the slam dunk contest.

also looks like he is having a solid camp in ORL.

a 6'6" athletic wing would be nice to groom as a replacement for Posey down the road and there a lot of intriguing prospects in this draft at that spot. Gist, Giddens, Lee, Jefferson to name a few.

it is going to be interesting to see how much time Danny can put aside to bring some of these guys in over the next couple weeks because i'm sure he is going to want to get a close look at them.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2008, 03:49:56 PM »

Offline sk7326

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1) If you want a backup center, draft Pekovic (if he agrees to join next season), not a college guy. And don't spend the 30# in an european prospect, trade down if that's the goal.

2) If not, draft a solid sg/sf ready to take TA's minutes next season.

3) Just trade it.

hard to find a big guy at #30 in America with impact possibility.  European guy makes sense from cap perspective and development perspective.  Certainly they should not draft an inferior guy at #30 because he is a foreigner, but if there is a lottery talent at #30 because of buyout concerns, you should not hesitate to pull the trigger.  Pekovic is a good selection (if he is this level of talent) regardless of when he can show up.  I'd rather not stage fire sales with the pick like Phoenix does. 

as far as taking Allen's minutes?  I am more intrigued by letting a veteran do that. 

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2008, 03:59:20 PM »

Offline winsomme

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Weems et al from the Slam Dunk contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgi1mC3AFcA

he is in maroon #13.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #139 on: May 31, 2008, 04:03:58 PM »

Offline winsomme

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here's a closer look at the jordan dunk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdR6I6iibM0

kid can play too..

this one is actually a good recap of the contest which was one of the better one's i have seen. it also included one of the best dunks ever in Patrick Ewing Jr's second:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Du63ySNS0w&feature=related

a little long, but good...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 04:11:29 PM by winsomme »

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #140 on: May 31, 2008, 04:36:25 PM »

Offline cordobes

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1) If you want a backup center, draft Pekovic (if he agrees to join next season), not a college guy. And don't spend the 30# in an european prospect, trade down if that's the goal.

2) If not, draft a solid sg/sf ready to take TA's minutes next season.

3) Just trade it.

hard to find a big guy at #30 in America with impact possibility.  European guy makes sense from cap perspective and development perspective.  Certainly they should not draft an inferior guy at #30 because he is a foreigner, but if there is a lottery talent at #30 because of buyout concerns, you should not hesitate to pull the trigger.  Pekovic is a good selection (if he is this level of talent) regardless of when he can show up.  I'd rather not stage fire sales with the pick like Phoenix does. 

as far as taking Allen's minutes?  I am more intrigued by letting a veteran do that. 

The thing with Pekovik is that he's not the prototypical draft'n'stash guy (and besides that, he's really atypical for a euro big). I wouldn't say he's got lottery level talent (I wouldn't be very assertive stating the opposite as well), because probably he'll never be more than a solid backup/bellow average starter in the NBA, if he ever shows up.

On the other hand, he's already there: he completely outplayed Splitter, who will almost certainly be the 1st big from the bench or a starter for San Antonio next season, or every other big man in Europe, including former NCAA champions and NBA players; if he was playing in the NCAA last season, he would be inflicting tremendous damage there, putting 40/20 games night in night out with little effort (mostly because he already has 2 season playing pros under his belt, of course). He's the only guy available at the 30th who could have an impact since day one.

The downside is that his game is almost simplistic and very physical: he gets position in the paint, he receives the ball and he scores in the offensive end; he outmuscles, contest the shot of his opponent and rebounds in the other end. I think he'd be able to overcome the fact that he'd be facing bigger bodies and faster players in the NBA to some extent, because he's really a great executer and a hard worker. He can only offer you bread and butter, but he's astoundingly good doing it. And he's not a stiff. But he's far from the "athletic freak with raw skills" or the "skinny/ unathletic but skillful" guy who are usually drafted and stashed.  Or maybe, with proper coaching and without the pressure of having to lead his team to wins, he can add some other things to his game; he's a late bloomer and only 21. I don't know... Anyway, he'll most certainly be one of the most well-payed players in Europe in the short-term (if not the most), and I have a hard time believing he'll leave that for a rookie contract in the NBA. I'll try to write a post about the european prospects in this draft during this week.

About TA's minutes: as long as we keep Posey, I'd rather have a veteran as a pg/combo guard, and then have a rookie able to handle some minutes and garbage time at the 2 and the 3. Something like this:
Rondo/veteran/Pruitt (House/Cassell?)
Ray/veteran/House?/rookie
Pierce/Posey/rookie
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 04:47:07 PM by cordobes »

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #141 on: May 31, 2008, 04:41:34 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Repeated post... :P

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #142 on: May 31, 2008, 07:49:34 PM »

Offline sk7326

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If they are going to not trade or stash the pick at #30, the best guy in that range is JJ Hickson.  Super athlete, high energy.  Raw and young, yes, but a lottery talent.  It is an upside play, but he could be spotted 10 minutes a game at the 4/5 and possibly develop in ways other guys at that draft slot couldn't.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #143 on: May 31, 2008, 08:19:15 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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As I said weeks ago, it is very unlikely that any player available at #30 will be able to make an immediate contribution. Why give a player like that a guaranteed contract?  Unless something really wierd happens and someone falls into the Celtics' lap, they ought to be drafting a young Euro with upside that they can stash for a couple of years.  Alternatively, they should try to trade the rights to the player they draft for future picks. 

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #144 on: June 01, 2008, 11:42:55 AM »

Offline Chris

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As I said weeks ago, it is very unlikely that any player available at #30 will be able to make an immediate contribution. Why give a player like that a guaranteed contract?  Unless something really wierd happens and someone falls into the Celtics' lap, they ought to be drafting a young Euro with upside that they can stash for a couple of years.  Alternatively, they should try to trade the rights to the player they draft for future picks. 

I agree that this is incredibly likely.  Unless Danny falls in love with someone (which certainly has happened before, and if it happened, I would put my money on it being on someone like Plaisted, who went to Ainge's alma mater), the only guys I see the C's taking at 30 and being on the team next year would be Walker, Rush, CDR, or MAYBE Lee. 

The only reason I would see those guys is that I think they are all ready to step in quickly, and could take Tony Allen's spot, if they decide to trade him or let him walk.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #145 on: June 01, 2008, 12:02:31 PM »

Offline Cman

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As I said weeks ago, it is very unlikely that any player available at #30 will be able to make an immediate contribution. Why give a player like that a guaranteed contract?  Unless something really wierd happens and someone falls into the Celtics' lap, they ought to be drafting a young Euro with upside that they can stash for a couple of years.  Alternatively, they should try to trade the rights to the player they draft for future picks. 

I agree that this is incredibly likely.  Unless Danny falls in love with someone (which certainly has happened before, and if it happened, I would put my money on it being on someone like Plaisted, who went to Ainge's alma mater), the only guys I see the C's taking at 30 and being on the team next year would be Walker, Rush, CDR, or MAYBE Lee. 

The only reason I would see those guys is that I think they are all ready to step in quickly, and could take Tony Allen's spot, if they decide to trade him or let him walk.

I have a hard time imagining the Cs not drafting someone this year.  It is just smart long term planning and besides they already don't have a 1st rounder next year.  But I agree that it may be wise to not use the #30 pick because of all the guaranteed money.  As I mentioned above,  a plausible trade partner could be Portland, which holds some high picks in the 2nd round and tends to always get involved in trades on draft night.  eg: Cs trade #30 for #33 and cash considerations or a future 2nd rounder in leiu of cash.  Something like that.

I also disagree that there are not players ready to come in and make an impact.  There have been several players drafted late in the 1st, early in the 2nd who have made an impact on playoff teams: Paul Millsap, Monta Ellis, Daniel Gibson.  Similarly I think players like CDR, Rush, possibly Hardin would be able to make an immediate impact. 

I do agree that drafting a foreign player and stashing him overseas would also be a good move.  Don't know enough about Pekovic, but will read up on him after the compliments made about him on this board....
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #146 on: June 01, 2008, 12:20:48 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?



I agree that need should come into the equation at 30 (unless there is a talent much greater than the others available).  However, I believe that the C's do have a need on the wing. 

Currently they have Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey (although he could opt out and be gone), and Tony Allen.

Personally I think Tony Allen is on his way out.  He has not improved much since his rookie year, and he is running out of chances.  Not to mention, I believe that CDR, Walker, and Rush could all be better than Tony almost immediately.  You are right that they won't be getting minutes over Posey, however, in an 82 game season you need more than 3 guys for depth in those two positions (SG, SF).  Especially since Ray Allen seems to be breaking down a bit over the minutes he played this year, and IMO could really be helped by dropping down to 30 minutes or less per game.

If we are able to get a talented wing (like the 3 mentioned) who could come in and provide depth, and scoring off the bench, then I think that is absolutely filling a need.

That's a good point.  I suppose, however, that since we have some good players at that position, it's a less critical need than center.


Well, we have a heck of a starting center right now.  Perkins has solidified his spot in this team, and has played like one of the best defensive centers in the league throughout the playoffs, and has now started to even show some confidence on offense.

More importantly though, it is much tougher to find a rotation quality Center who can contribute right away than a rotation quality wing who can contribute right away.  I think there are a few guys who have some potential there, but no one you could actually count on filling a role anytime soon.

It makes much more sense to get a veteran big man to back up Perk, and using the pick to solidify the wing position (I think Rush, CDR, Walker, and Lee could all play right away).

I'm not married to Hibbert, but I do believe we need a center. And while I think an athletic young center would be nice, I would rather have a slower footed center that can finish around the basket.  And that's precisely because I'm happy with Perkins, who I think it talented enough to keep starting.

If I ask, what are the problems with the Celtics, I think the answer is "too many jump shots." I don't know that an athletic wing necessarily helps with that issue, because jump shots are often shot as a result of strong interior defense. We already have a bunch of guys who can get to the rack.

A big man who can finish around the rim is a solution to the jump-shooting issue, since, especially if the big man can pass, it spaces out the floor, and maybe helps draw some fouls.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #147 on: June 01, 2008, 01:07:26 PM »

Offline P2

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DeVon Hardin is our guy.

Re: Possible #30 picks
« Reply #148 on: June 01, 2008, 11:12:53 PM »

Offline Who

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I've been looking at a few other team sites, the Hornets, Grizz, and Pistons who have the three picks before the C's. Thought it would be interesting to see who they're talking about.

They're all a lot less confident about some of these guys falling that low. They're talking about Richard Hendrix, Dorsey and a few others like that. Courtney Lee was still in the conversation. Walker was sometimes. CDR, Rush, and couple of others were not.

Re: Possible #30 picks - hoping the Celtics reach up for Roy Hibbert
« Reply #149 on: June 16, 2008, 07:16:13 PM »

Offline grayjonv

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I think it would be worth packaging this and next year's #1 picks for a potential center in Roy Hibbert.
The mocks show HIbbert going to Utah in the low 20's.
Hibbert to be better than Perkins.

I was hoping the Celtics could have gotten Hibbert last year with the #5 if he did not go back to school.

Hopefully, KG could light a fire under him.