If Celtics had Prime Shaq now, are we unstoppable?

[Csfan1984]

This coach and this system would see prime Shaq score 17pts a game and grab 12 rebs. The game change overall would see Shaqs blocks reduced but his steals increased. He would probably still get defensive player of the year votes. People forget how intimidating he was in the paint on defense.

Do they win, maybe they do? Still Shaq wouldn't be as dominate in this system. The threes and spacing would diminish his impact if they refuse to pass him the ball and just make him a screener (see Vuce in our system and Vuce had a decent shot).

 17 ppg per game Prime Shaq??? You must be joking. We have Tatum and what else? Breaking news Shaq is 10 times better than Tatum will ever be.

Shaq is good, this team is just a bad fit. They also refuse to change. So yeah I stand by what I said.

It just doesn't check out as anything other than an exaggerated shot at the Celtics' coaches.

Rudy Gobert averaged 14 and 13 two years ago, past his prime. Shaq was the most physically dominant big man of the past 50 years. It's just not the case that coaches on any team, let alone the Cs, are so blind as to not leverage an All-Time big man just because he doesn't shoot 3s (or whatever the objection is).

It's absolutely about the team and coaching. Not about Prime Shaq

Jalen Duren just averaged 20pts/11rebs playing 28mpg. Saying prime Shaq would average 17pts/12rebs in todays NBA, on any team with any coach is just silly.

The teams don't play the same way. What is so hard for y'all to accept. The team and these coaches don't play any deep post. They shoot threes and more threes. Guys coming to the team have said they were sat because they weren't taking enough threes. The team is all about the three. Look what ever big man does here. Nothing against Shaq this is the team. Look how JB got sent out. They want threes, they don't want a Shaq scoring unless it's a lob play or put back.

 Just accept the fact you are 100% wrong here. If  Joe can't adapt to prime Shaq you find a new coach. Shaq is an all time great. I can't believe how foolish some are being here.

You get rid of Joe and this heavily reliant on threes philosophy and then you get prime Shaq doing MVP year Giannis numbers at the minimum.

Your argument is that you don?t like Joe. That is all. The coaching staff and GM are all on board with points in the paint.




From Brads end of year presser 2026:

"My general feeling watching us play in really each of the last two playoffs ... was, we had a hard time generating really good looks on that first shot," Stevens said. "So, we've got to figure out a way to do better in that."

"One of the things that we've got to figure out is how to have more of an impact at the rim, and I think we do need to add to our team to do that. Everybody plays a role in that, but at the end of (Game 7), (Sixers big man Joel) Embiid is standing at the rim on all those possessions, or a lot of those possessions."

That sure sounds like Stevens wants to add more frontcourt depth to complement the current tandem of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza -- or at least pursue a player who can create offense inside the 3-point line.

"I think the biggest thing is, can we generate looks at the rim?" Stevens said. "Yeah, everybody wants to do that, and every one of us would prefer a dunk over a 3. Every single one of us.

BS got them Vuce to try to get more post play and pick and pop. Joe showed us what he thought of post play. I can't put everything on BS. I know Joe is a problem.

How many 3s does Queta average? Thinking Joe or any coach would tell Shaq to pass up dunks is just so silly man.

He would take less shots than he got in the 90s not take 3s. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this coaching staff doesn't have a problem with three point volume.

Pretty heavy non sequitur. We're all aware the Cs like to shoot a high volume of 3s. It does not follow that they are basketball idiots and wouldn't let Shaq go nuts inside.

I get it, you're frustrated with the playing style, and there may even be something there -- but beating the drum of hyperbole like the Cs coaching staff couldn't manage a middle school team doesn't make your case.

Pretty much this.

Joe can be frustrating.  Your point is fine:  Joe doesn't use his post players as effectively as he could.  That's fair.  We saw it with Vuc, and before we saw it with KP.  Porzingis got looks in the post, where he was the most effective player in the post that year.  But, those looks were limited, and we never constantly fed the post.

So, that's the room for criticism.  But, Joe is just stubborn, he's not intellectually disabled.He would notice that there isn't a player in the NBA that can guard a hyper-athletic 300 pound mammoth. 
  He would run an offense similar to the D12 Magic, having defenders collapse into the paint to open up outside shots.  And, anytime a modern center tried to defend 1-on-1, Shaq would cook.

And that's why I gave the numbers I did. I can't say Joe would change things. Based on what players have said as well as reporters, and even Joe himself the man is dead set in his style. No interview with BS is going to change this view especially when BS just traded the player who tried to get to the rim the most. OP wanted to know what people thought Shaq would do on this team and I answered it. Now people are acting butt hurt over it. I gave reason and evidence to support my view on this hypothetical. If they want to also add in what if Joe could change as another hypothetical that wasn't asked.

Obviously totally cool to have a different opinion on something so subjective, but I'm not sure what you mean by evidence other than support for what we already know -- that Joe and the Cs in general are big on 3PT volume (like many teams). There's no debate on that, which is why I think it's a non sequitur. to keep pointing it out. They've never had the most physical, athletic big man in the league (by far) and had to choose. Vucevic wasn't some massive dilemma of wasting away an MVP player.

Nobody can get into the coach's mind to find out if he's really so stubborn that he'd turn the best center in modern history into a role player. I mean it's theoretically *possible*, but I think the league-wide evidence  that others have pointed out says otherwise. Joe would have to be THE exception above all others. Again, there are multiple examples of players in this league that are basically a 10x worse version of Shaq, that still put up big numbers hanging out around the basket. I don't think there's a single center who can even sniff non-prime Shaq level who doesn't get serious run and opportunities in 2026. They aren't as common, but they aren't extinct.

Well current evidence doesn't support the idea that Joe would be any different as when Cs players are in a heavy slump Joe keeps telling them to fire away to the point the team loses historically.  No coach has blown it in such a fashion therefore I assume he is dead set in his ways. Also post game interviews clearly he has stated his philosophy and commitment to the style. It's from his own actions and words that I take my opinion. Again if you want hypothetical answer if Joe could change I told what I thought Shaq could do. Stop coming at me when I and basing more of what Joe has shown us than what others want to.

We'll continue to go in circles, if you consider what Joe does with Nikola Vucevic as evidence of what he'd do with prime Shaq.

It's also blatantly false that Joe is the only coach in the league that lets his team 3PT shoot themselves out of games. The whole league does it quite frequently.

I would bet my house if Joe did an interview on this very question he'd say: "Well obviously I'd make an exception for Shaq, I'm not insane".

It's all good if you believe Joe is really that stubborn, nobody can prove it either way. I think you just are rubbing the whole thread the wrong way with what you say constitutes evidence. It just sounds like confirmation bias.

So me taking what a guy does and says as evidence is confirmation bias? That's literally evidence its you and others that are "assuming" more so than I am. Have you seen his post game interactions with reporters that call out the shooting and change of style options.

And what you call as a statement wasn't even my statement you trying to put a spin on what I said. Read what I said don't make up your own narrative and try to make it mine

Again stop being butt hurt about Joe. He is a bad coach get over it..

[Donoghus]

This has got to be one of the dumbest threads in the history of this blog.

[Goldstar88]

This coach and this system would see prime Shaq score 17pts a game and grab 12 rebs. The game change overall would see Shaqs blocks reduced but his steals increased. He would probably still get defensive player of the year votes. People forget how intimidating he was in the paint on defense.

Do they win, maybe they do? Still Shaq wouldn't be as dominate in this system. The threes and spacing would diminish his impact if they refuse to pass him the ball and just make him a screener (see Vuce in our system and Vuce had a decent shot).

 17 ppg per game Prime Shaq??? You must be joking. We have Tatum and what else? Breaking news Shaq is 10 times better than Tatum will ever be.

Shaq is good, this team is just a bad fit. They also refuse to change. So yeah I stand by what I said.

It just doesn't check out as anything other than an exaggerated shot at the Celtics' coaches.

Rudy Gobert averaged 14 and 13 two years ago, past his prime. Shaq was the most physically dominant big man of the past 50 years. It's just not the case that coaches on any team, let alone the Cs, are so blind as to not leverage an All-Time big man just because he doesn't shoot 3s (or whatever the objection is).

It's absolutely about the team and coaching. Not about Prime Shaq

Jalen Duren just averaged 20pts/11rebs playing 28mpg. Saying prime Shaq would average 17pts/12rebs in todays NBA, on any team with any coach is just silly.

The teams don't play the same way. What is so hard for y'all to accept. The team and these coaches don't play any deep post. They shoot threes and more threes. Guys coming to the team have said they were sat because they weren't taking enough threes. The team is all about the three. Look what ever big man does here. Nothing against Shaq this is the team. Look how JB got sent out. They want threes, they don't want a Shaq scoring unless it's a lob play or put back.

 Just accept the fact you are 100% wrong here. If  Joe can't adapt to prime Shaq you find a new coach. Shaq is an all time great. I can't believe how foolish some are being here.

You get rid of Joe and this heavily reliant on threes philosophy and then you get prime Shaq doing MVP year Giannis numbers at the minimum.

Your argument is that you don?t like Joe. That is all. The coaching staff and GM are all on board with points in the paint.




From Brads end of year presser 2026:

"My general feeling watching us play in really each of the last two playoffs ... was, we had a hard time generating really good looks on that first shot," Stevens said. "So, we've got to figure out a way to do better in that."

"One of the things that we've got to figure out is how to have more of an impact at the rim, and I think we do need to add to our team to do that. Everybody plays a role in that, but at the end of (Game 7), (Sixers big man Joel) Embiid is standing at the rim on all those possessions, or a lot of those possessions."

That sure sounds like Stevens wants to add more frontcourt depth to complement the current tandem of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza -- or at least pursue a player who can create offense inside the 3-point line.

"I think the biggest thing is, can we generate looks at the rim?" Stevens said. "Yeah, everybody wants to do that, and every one of us would prefer a dunk over a 3. Every single one of us.

BS got them Vuce to try to get more post play and pick and pop. Joe showed us what he thought of post play. I can't put everything on BS. I know Joe is a problem.

How many 3s does Queta average? Thinking Joe or any coach would tell Shaq to pass up dunks is just so silly man.

He would take less shots than he got in the 90s not take 3s. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this coaching staff doesn't have a problem with three point volume.

Pretty heavy non sequitur. We're all aware the Cs like to shoot a high volume of 3s. It does not follow that they are basketball idiots and wouldn't let Shaq go nuts inside.

I get it, you're frustrated with the playing style, and there may even be something there -- but beating the drum of hyperbole like the Cs coaching staff couldn't manage a middle school team doesn't make your case.

Pretty much this.

Joe can be frustrating.  Your point is fine:  Joe doesn't use his post players as effectively as he could.  That's fair.  We saw it with Vuc, and before we saw it with KP.  Porzingis got looks in the post, where he was the most effective player in the post that year.  But, those looks were limited, and we never constantly fed the post.

So, that's the room for criticism.  But, Joe is just stubborn, he's not intellectually disabled.He would notice that there isn't a player in the NBA that can guard a hyper-athletic 300 pound mammoth. 
  He would run an offense similar to the D12 Magic, having defenders collapse into the paint to open up outside shots.  And, anytime a modern center tried to defend 1-on-1, Shaq would cook.

And that's why I gave the numbers I did. I can't say Joe would change things. Based on what players have said as well as reporters, and even Joe himself the man is dead set in his style. No interview with BS is going to change this view especially when BS just traded the player who tried to get to the rim the most. OP wanted to know what people thought Shaq would do on this team and I answered it. Now people are acting butt hurt over it. I gave reason and evidence to support my view on this hypothetical. If they want to also add in what if Joe could change as another hypothetical that wasn't asked.

Obviously totally cool to have a different opinion on something so subjective, but I'm not sure what you mean by evidence other than support for what we already know -- that Joe and the Cs in general are big on 3PT volume (like many teams). There's no debate on that, which is why I think it's a non sequitur. to keep pointing it out. They've never had the most physical, athletic big man in the league (by far) and had to choose. Vucevic wasn't some massive dilemma of wasting away an MVP player.

Nobody can get into the coach's mind to find out if he's really so stubborn that he'd turn the best center in modern history into a role player. I mean it's theoretically *possible*, but I think the league-wide evidence  that others have pointed out says otherwise. Joe would have to be THE exception above all others. Again, there are multiple examples of players in this league that are basically a 10x worse version of Shaq, that still put up big numbers hanging out around the basket. I don't think there's a single center who can even sniff non-prime Shaq level who doesn't get serious run and opportunities in 2026. They aren't as common, but they aren't extinct.

Well current evidence doesn't support the idea that Joe would be any different as when Cs players are in a heavy slump Joe keeps telling them to fire away to the point the team loses historically.  No coach has blown it in such a fashion therefore I assume he is dead set in his ways. Also post game interviews clearly he has stated his philosophy and commitment to the style. It's from his own actions and words that I take my opinion. Again if you want hypothetical answer if Joe could change I told what I thought Shaq could do. Stop coming at me when I and basing more of what Joe has shown us than what others want to.

We'll continue to go in circles, if you consider what Joe does with Nikola Vucevic as evidence of what he'd do with prime Shaq.

It's also blatantly false that Joe is the only coach in the league that lets his team 3PT shoot themselves out of games. The whole league does it quite frequently.

I would bet my house if Joe did an interview on this very question he'd say: "Well obviously I'd make an exception for Shaq, I'm not insane".

It's all good if you believe Joe is really that stubborn, nobody can prove it either way. I think you just are rubbing the whole thread the wrong way with what you say constitutes evidence. It just sounds like confirmation bias.

So me taking what a guy does and says as evidence is confirmation bias? That's literally evidence its you and others that are "assuming" more so than I am. Have you seen his post game interactions with reporters that call out the shooting and change of style options.

And what you call as a statement wasn't even my statement you trying to put a spin on what I said. Read what I said don't make up your own narrative and try to make it mine

Again stop being butt hurt about Joe. He is a bad coach get over it..

It sounds like you are the one that needs to get over Joe. You not liking his style of play is the sole reason for your posts. We get it. You don?t like 3pt shooting. Thing is.. Brad Stevens does. He runs the team. He hired Joe. If Mazzula was not doing what Stevens wanted, he would not be here.

Thinking that any coach would have a player like Shaq or Giannis pass up dunks is the most ridiculous thing I have read on this site in a long long time.

[byennie]

This coach and this system would see prime Shaq score 17pts a game and grab 12 rebs. The game change overall would see Shaqs blocks reduced but his steals increased. He would probably still get defensive player of the year votes. People forget how intimidating he was in the paint on defense.

Do they win, maybe they do? Still Shaq wouldn't be as dominate in this system. The threes and spacing would diminish his impact if they refuse to pass him the ball and just make him a screener (see Vuce in our system and Vuce had a decent shot).

 17 ppg per game Prime Shaq??? You must be joking. We have Tatum and what else? Breaking news Shaq is 10 times better than Tatum will ever be.

Shaq is good, this team is just a bad fit. They also refuse to change. So yeah I stand by what I said.

It just doesn't check out as anything other than an exaggerated shot at the Celtics' coaches.

Rudy Gobert averaged 14 and 13 two years ago, past his prime. Shaq was the most physically dominant big man of the past 50 years. It's just not the case that coaches on any team, let alone the Cs, are so blind as to not leverage an All-Time big man just because he doesn't shoot 3s (or whatever the objection is).

It's absolutely about the team and coaching. Not about Prime Shaq

Jalen Duren just averaged 20pts/11rebs playing 28mpg. Saying prime Shaq would average 17pts/12rebs in todays NBA, on any team with any coach is just silly.

The teams don't play the same way. What is so hard for y'all to accept. The team and these coaches don't play any deep post. They shoot threes and more threes. Guys coming to the team have said they were sat because they weren't taking enough threes. The team is all about the three. Look what ever big man does here. Nothing against Shaq this is the team. Look how JB got sent out. They want threes, they don't want a Shaq scoring unless it's a lob play or put back.

 Just accept the fact you are 100% wrong here. If  Joe can't adapt to prime Shaq you find a new coach. Shaq is an all time great. I can't believe how foolish some are being here.

You get rid of Joe and this heavily reliant on threes philosophy and then you get prime Shaq doing MVP year Giannis numbers at the minimum.

Your argument is that you don?t like Joe. That is all. The coaching staff and GM are all on board with points in the paint.




From Brads end of year presser 2026:

"My general feeling watching us play in really each of the last two playoffs ... was, we had a hard time generating really good looks on that first shot," Stevens said. "So, we've got to figure out a way to do better in that."

"One of the things that we've got to figure out is how to have more of an impact at the rim, and I think we do need to add to our team to do that. Everybody plays a role in that, but at the end of (Game 7), (Sixers big man Joel) Embiid is standing at the rim on all those possessions, or a lot of those possessions."

That sure sounds like Stevens wants to add more frontcourt depth to complement the current tandem of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza -- or at least pursue a player who can create offense inside the 3-point line.

"I think the biggest thing is, can we generate looks at the rim?" Stevens said. "Yeah, everybody wants to do that, and every one of us would prefer a dunk over a 3. Every single one of us.

BS got them Vuce to try to get more post play and pick and pop. Joe showed us what he thought of post play. I can't put everything on BS. I know Joe is a problem.

How many 3s does Queta average? Thinking Joe or any coach would tell Shaq to pass up dunks is just so silly man.

He would take less shots than he got in the 90s not take 3s. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this coaching staff doesn't have a problem with three point volume.

Pretty heavy non sequitur. We're all aware the Cs like to shoot a high volume of 3s. It does not follow that they are basketball idiots and wouldn't let Shaq go nuts inside.

I get it, you're frustrated with the playing style, and there may even be something there -- but beating the drum of hyperbole like the Cs coaching staff couldn't manage a middle school team doesn't make your case.

Pretty much this.

Joe can be frustrating.  Your point is fine:  Joe doesn't use his post players as effectively as he could.  That's fair.  We saw it with Vuc, and before we saw it with KP.  Porzingis got looks in the post, where he was the most effective player in the post that year.  But, those looks were limited, and we never constantly fed the post.

So, that's the room for criticism.  But, Joe is just stubborn, he's not intellectually disabled.He would notice that there isn't a player in the NBA that can guard a hyper-athletic 300 pound mammoth. 
  He would run an offense similar to the D12 Magic, having defenders collapse into the paint to open up outside shots.  And, anytime a modern center tried to defend 1-on-1, Shaq would cook.

And that's why I gave the numbers I did. I can't say Joe would change things. Based on what players have said as well as reporters, and even Joe himself the man is dead set in his style. No interview with BS is going to change this view especially when BS just traded the player who tried to get to the rim the most. OP wanted to know what people thought Shaq would do on this team and I answered it. Now people are acting butt hurt over it. I gave reason and evidence to support my view on this hypothetical. If they want to also add in what if Joe could change as another hypothetical that wasn't asked.

Obviously totally cool to have a different opinion on something so subjective, but I'm not sure what you mean by evidence other than support for what we already know -- that Joe and the Cs in general are big on 3PT volume (like many teams). There's no debate on that, which is why I think it's a non sequitur. to keep pointing it out. They've never had the most physical, athletic big man in the league (by far) and had to choose. Vucevic wasn't some massive dilemma of wasting away an MVP player.

Nobody can get into the coach's mind to find out if he's really so stubborn that he'd turn the best center in modern history into a role player. I mean it's theoretically *possible*, but I think the league-wide evidence  that others have pointed out says otherwise. Joe would have to be THE exception above all others. Again, there are multiple examples of players in this league that are basically a 10x worse version of Shaq, that still put up big numbers hanging out around the basket. I don't think there's a single center who can even sniff non-prime Shaq level who doesn't get serious run and opportunities in 2026. They aren't as common, but they aren't extinct.

Well current evidence doesn't support the idea that Joe would be any different as when Cs players are in a heavy slump Joe keeps telling them to fire away to the point the team loses historically.  No coach has blown it in such a fashion therefore I assume he is dead set in his ways. Also post game interviews clearly he has stated his philosophy and commitment to the style. It's from his own actions and words that I take my opinion. Again if you want hypothetical answer if Joe could change I told what I thought Shaq could do. Stop coming at me when I and basing more of what Joe has shown us than what others want to.

We'll continue to go in circles, if you consider what Joe does with Nikola Vucevic as evidence of what he'd do with prime Shaq.

It's also blatantly false that Joe is the only coach in the league that lets his team 3PT shoot themselves out of games. The whole league does it quite frequently.

I would bet my house if Joe did an interview on this very question he'd say: "Well obviously I'd make an exception for Shaq, I'm not insane".

It's all good if you believe Joe is really that stubborn, nobody can prove it either way. I think you just are rubbing the whole thread the wrong way with what you say constitutes evidence. It just sounds like confirmation bias.

So me taking what a guy does and says as evidence is confirmation bias? That's literally evidence its you and others that are "assuming" more so than I am. Have you seen his post game interactions with reporters that call out the shooting and change of style options.

And what you call as a statement wasn't even my statement you trying to put a spin on what I said. Read what I said don't make up your own narrative and try to make it mine

Again stop being butt hurt about Joe. He is a bad coach get over it..

Yes, that's exactly what it is. You want to argue that Joe is so clueless, he wouldn't even utilize prime Shaq. So, you use his words  to confirm your view. He doubled down and defended his strategy in a press conference with Nikola Vucevic on the roster, so it must be true. Or maybe he just doesn't participate in throwing his own strategy under the bus to the media after a game?

Like I said: it's totally, subjectively fine if you think Joe is THAT stubborn. You'll need more evidence to sway anyone here, though. It's just not convincing anyone even a little bit, and we've all seen the games and the interviews.

I would just drop this particular scenario about Shaq, but that's just me. You can be a harsh Joe critic without dying on this hill.

[Csfan1984]

This coach and this system would see prime Shaq score 17pts a game and grab 12 rebs. The game change overall would see Shaqs blocks reduced but his steals increased. He would probably still get defensive player of the year votes. People forget how intimidating he was in the paint on defense.

Do they win, maybe they do? Still Shaq wouldn't be as dominate in this system. The threes and spacing would diminish his impact if they refuse to pass him the ball and just make him a screener (see Vuce in our system and Vuce had a decent shot).

 17 ppg per game Prime Shaq??? You must be joking. We have Tatum and what else? Breaking news Shaq is 10 times better than Tatum will ever be.

Shaq is good, this team is just a bad fit. They also refuse to change. So yeah I stand by what I said.

It just doesn't check out as anything other than an exaggerated shot at the Celtics' coaches.

Rudy Gobert averaged 14 and 13 two years ago, past his prime. Shaq was the most physically dominant big man of the past 50 years. It's just not the case that coaches on any team, let alone the Cs, are so blind as to not leverage an All-Time big man just because he doesn't shoot 3s (or whatever the objection is).

It's absolutely about the team and coaching. Not about Prime Shaq

Jalen Duren just averaged 20pts/11rebs playing 28mpg. Saying prime Shaq would average 17pts/12rebs in todays NBA, on any team with any coach is just silly.

The teams don't play the same way. What is so hard for y'all to accept. The team and these coaches don't play any deep post. They shoot threes and more threes. Guys coming to the team have said they were sat because they weren't taking enough threes. The team is all about the three. Look what ever big man does here. Nothing against Shaq this is the team. Look how JB got sent out. They want threes, they don't want a Shaq scoring unless it's a lob play or put back.

 Just accept the fact you are 100% wrong here. If  Joe can't adapt to prime Shaq you find a new coach. Shaq is an all time great. I can't believe how foolish some are being here.

You get rid of Joe and this heavily reliant on threes philosophy and then you get prime Shaq doing MVP year Giannis numbers at the minimum.

Your argument is that you don?t like Joe. That is all. The coaching staff and GM are all on board with points in the paint.




From Brads end of year presser 2026:

"My general feeling watching us play in really each of the last two playoffs ... was, we had a hard time generating really good looks on that first shot," Stevens said. "So, we've got to figure out a way to do better in that."

"One of the things that we've got to figure out is how to have more of an impact at the rim, and I think we do need to add to our team to do that. Everybody plays a role in that, but at the end of (Game 7), (Sixers big man Joel) Embiid is standing at the rim on all those possessions, or a lot of those possessions."

That sure sounds like Stevens wants to add more frontcourt depth to complement the current tandem of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza -- or at least pursue a player who can create offense inside the 3-point line.

"I think the biggest thing is, can we generate looks at the rim?" Stevens said. "Yeah, everybody wants to do that, and every one of us would prefer a dunk over a 3. Every single one of us.

BS got them Vuce to try to get more post play and pick and pop. Joe showed us what he thought of post play. I can't put everything on BS. I know Joe is a problem.

How many 3s does Queta average? Thinking Joe or any coach would tell Shaq to pass up dunks is just so silly man.

He would take less shots than he got in the 90s not take 3s. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this coaching staff doesn't have a problem with three point volume.

Pretty heavy non sequitur. We're all aware the Cs like to shoot a high volume of 3s. It does not follow that they are basketball idiots and wouldn't let Shaq go nuts inside.

I get it, you're frustrated with the playing style, and there may even be something there -- but beating the drum of hyperbole like the Cs coaching staff couldn't manage a middle school team doesn't make your case.

Pretty much this.

Joe can be frustrating.  Your point is fine:  Joe doesn't use his post players as effectively as he could.  That's fair.  We saw it with Vuc, and before we saw it with KP.  Porzingis got looks in the post, where he was the most effective player in the post that year.  But, those looks were limited, and we never constantly fed the post.

So, that's the room for criticism.  But, Joe is just stubborn, he's not intellectually disabled.He would notice that there isn't a player in the NBA that can guard a hyper-athletic 300 pound mammoth. 
  He would run an offense similar to the D12 Magic, having defenders collapse into the paint to open up outside shots.  And, anytime a modern center tried to defend 1-on-1, Shaq would cook.

And that's why I gave the numbers I did. I can't say Joe would change things. Based on what players have said as well as reporters, and even Joe himself the man is dead set in his style. No interview with BS is going to change this view especially when BS just traded the player who tried to get to the rim the most. OP wanted to know what people thought Shaq would do on this team and I answered it. Now people are acting butt hurt over it. I gave reason and evidence to support my view on this hypothetical. If they want to also add in what if Joe could change as another hypothetical that wasn't asked.

Obviously totally cool to have a different opinion on something so subjective, but I'm not sure what you mean by evidence other than support for what we already know -- that Joe and the Cs in general are big on 3PT volume (like many teams). There's no debate on that, which is why I think it's a non sequitur. to keep pointing it out. They've never had the most physical, athletic big man in the league (by far) and had to choose. Vucevic wasn't some massive dilemma of wasting away an MVP player.

Nobody can get into the coach's mind to find out if he's really so stubborn that he'd turn the best center in modern history into a role player. I mean it's theoretically *possible*, but I think the league-wide evidence  that others have pointed out says otherwise. Joe would have to be THE exception above all others. Again, there are multiple examples of players in this league that are basically a 10x worse version of Shaq, that still put up big numbers hanging out around the basket. I don't think there's a single center who can even sniff non-prime Shaq level who doesn't get serious run and opportunities in 2026. They aren't as common, but they aren't extinct.

Well current evidence doesn't support the idea that Joe would be any different as when Cs players are in a heavy slump Joe keeps telling them to fire away to the point the team loses historically.  No coach has blown it in such a fashion therefore I assume he is dead set in his ways. Also post game interviews clearly he has stated his philosophy and commitment to the style. It's from his own actions and words that I take my opinion. Again if you want hypothetical answer if Joe could change I told what I thought Shaq could do. Stop coming at me when I and basing more of what Joe has shown us than what others want to.

We'll continue to go in circles, if you consider what Joe does with Nikola Vucevic as evidence of what he'd do with prime Shaq.

It's also blatantly false that Joe is the only coach in the league that lets his team 3PT shoot themselves out of games. The whole league does it quite frequently.

I would bet my house if Joe did an interview on this very question he'd say: "Well obviously I'd make an exception for Shaq, I'm not insane".

It's all good if you believe Joe is really that stubborn, nobody can prove it either way. I think you just are rubbing the whole thread the wrong way with what you say constitutes evidence. It just sounds like confirmation bias.

So me taking what a guy does and says as evidence is confirmation bias? That's literally evidence its you and others that are "assuming" more so than I am. Have you seen his post game interactions with reporters that call out the shooting and change of style options.

And what you call as a statement wasn't even my statement you trying to put a spin on what I said. Read what I said don't make up your own narrative and try to make it mine

Again stop being butt hurt about Joe. He is a bad coach get over it..

Yes, that's exactly what it is. You want to argue that Joe is so clueless, he wouldn't even utilize prime Shaq. So, you use his words  to confirm your view. He doubled down and defended his strategy in a press conference with Nikola Vucevic on the roster, so it must be true. Or maybe he just doesn't participate in throwing his own strategy under the bus to the media after a game?

Like I said: it's totally, subjectively fine if you think Joe is THAT stubborn. You'll need more evidence to sway anyone here, though. It's just not convincing anyone even a little bit, and we've all seen the games and the interviews.

I would just drop this particular scenario about Shaq, but that's just me. You can be a harsh Joe critic without dying on this hill.

I gave both numbers it's you dying on Joe.

[Csfan1984]

This coach and this system would see prime Shaq score 17pts a game and grab 12 rebs. The game change overall would see Shaqs blocks reduced but his steals increased. He would probably still get defensive player of the year votes. People forget how intimidating he was in the paint on defense.

Do they win, maybe they do? Still Shaq wouldn't be as dominate in this system. The threes and spacing would diminish his impact if they refuse to pass him the ball and just make him a screener (see Vuce in our system and Vuce had a decent shot).

 17 ppg per game Prime Shaq??? You must be joking. We have Tatum and what else? Breaking news Shaq is 10 times better than Tatum will ever be.

Shaq is good, this team is just a bad fit. They also refuse to change. So yeah I stand by what I said.

It just doesn't check out as anything other than an exaggerated shot at the Celtics' coaches.

Rudy Gobert averaged 14 and 13 two years ago, past his prime. Shaq was the most physically dominant big man of the past 50 years. It's just not the case that coaches on any team, let alone the Cs, are so blind as to not leverage an All-Time big man just because he doesn't shoot 3s (or whatever the objection is).

It's absolutely about the team and coaching. Not about Prime Shaq

Jalen Duren just averaged 20pts/11rebs playing 28mpg. Saying prime Shaq would average 17pts/12rebs in todays NBA, on any team with any coach is just silly.

The teams don't play the same way. What is so hard for y'all to accept. The team and these coaches don't play any deep post. They shoot threes and more threes. Guys coming to the team have said they were sat because they weren't taking enough threes. The team is all about the three. Look what ever big man does here. Nothing against Shaq this is the team. Look how JB got sent out. They want threes, they don't want a Shaq scoring unless it's a lob play or put back.

 Just accept the fact you are 100% wrong here. If  Joe can't adapt to prime Shaq you find a new coach. Shaq is an all time great. I can't believe how foolish some are being here.

You get rid of Joe and this heavily reliant on threes philosophy and then you get prime Shaq doing MVP year Giannis numbers at the minimum.

Your argument is that you don?t like Joe. That is all. The coaching staff and GM are all on board with points in the paint.




From Brads end of year presser 2026:

"My general feeling watching us play in really each of the last two playoffs ... was, we had a hard time generating really good looks on that first shot," Stevens said. "So, we've got to figure out a way to do better in that."

"One of the things that we've got to figure out is how to have more of an impact at the rim, and I think we do need to add to our team to do that. Everybody plays a role in that, but at the end of (Game 7), (Sixers big man Joel) Embiid is standing at the rim on all those possessions, or a lot of those possessions."

That sure sounds like Stevens wants to add more frontcourt depth to complement the current tandem of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza -- or at least pursue a player who can create offense inside the 3-point line.

"I think the biggest thing is, can we generate looks at the rim?" Stevens said. "Yeah, everybody wants to do that, and every one of us would prefer a dunk over a 3. Every single one of us.

BS got them Vuce to try to get more post play and pick and pop. Joe showed us what he thought of post play. I can't put everything on BS. I know Joe is a problem.

How many 3s does Queta average? Thinking Joe or any coach would tell Shaq to pass up dunks is just so silly man.

He would take less shots than he got in the 90s not take 3s. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this coaching staff doesn't have a problem with three point volume.

Pretty heavy non sequitur. We're all aware the Cs like to shoot a high volume of 3s. It does not follow that they are basketball idiots and wouldn't let Shaq go nuts inside.

I get it, you're frustrated with the playing style, and there may even be something there -- but beating the drum of hyperbole like the Cs coaching staff couldn't manage a middle school team doesn't make your case.

Pretty much this.

Joe can be frustrating.  Your point is fine:  Joe doesn't use his post players as effectively as he could.  That's fair.  We saw it with Vuc, and before we saw it with KP.  Porzingis got looks in the post, where he was the most effective player in the post that year.  But, those looks were limited, and we never constantly fed the post.

So, that's the room for criticism.  But, Joe is just stubborn, he's not intellectually disabled.He would notice that there isn't a player in the NBA that can guard a hyper-athletic 300 pound mammoth. 
  He would run an offense similar to the D12 Magic, having defenders collapse into the paint to open up outside shots.  And, anytime a modern center tried to defend 1-on-1, Shaq would cook.

And that's why I gave the numbers I did. I can't say Joe would change things. Based on what players have said as well as reporters, and even Joe himself the man is dead set in his style. No interview with BS is going to change this view especially when BS just traded the player who tried to get to the rim the most. OP wanted to know what people thought Shaq would do on this team and I answered it. Now people are acting butt hurt over it. I gave reason and evidence to support my view on this hypothetical. If they want to also add in what if Joe could change as another hypothetical that wasn't asked.

Obviously totally cool to have a different opinion on something so subjective, but I'm not sure what you mean by evidence other than support for what we already know -- that Joe and the Cs in general are big on 3PT volume (like many teams). There's no debate on that, which is why I think it's a non sequitur. to keep pointing it out. They've never had the most physical, athletic big man in the league (by far) and had to choose. Vucevic wasn't some massive dilemma of wasting away an MVP player.

Nobody can get into the coach's mind to find out if he's really so stubborn that he'd turn the best center in modern history into a role player. I mean it's theoretically *possible*, but I think the league-wide evidence  that others have pointed out says otherwise. Joe would have to be THE exception above all others. Again, there are multiple examples of players in this league that are basically a 10x worse version of Shaq, that still put up big numbers hanging out around the basket. I don't think there's a single center who can even sniff non-prime Shaq level who doesn't get serious run and opportunities in 2026. They aren't as common, but they aren't extinct.

Well current evidence doesn't support the idea that Joe would be any different as when Cs players are in a heavy slump Joe keeps telling them to fire away to the point the team loses historically.  No coach has blown it in such a fashion therefore I assume he is dead set in his ways. Also post game interviews clearly he has stated his philosophy and commitment to the style. It's from his own actions and words that I take my opinion. Again if you want hypothetical answer if Joe could change I told what I thought Shaq could do. Stop coming at me when I and basing more of what Joe has shown us than what others want to.

We'll continue to go in circles, if you consider what Joe does with Nikola Vucevic as evidence of what he'd do with prime Shaq.

It's also blatantly false that Joe is the only coach in the league that lets his team 3PT shoot themselves out of games. The whole league does it quite frequently.

I would bet my house if Joe did an interview on this very question he'd say: "Well obviously I'd make an exception for Shaq, I'm not insane".

It's all good if you believe Joe is really that stubborn, nobody can prove it either way. I think you just are rubbing the whole thread the wrong way with what you say constitutes evidence. It just sounds like confirmation bias.

So me taking what a guy does and says as evidence is confirmation bias? That's literally evidence its you and others that are "assuming" more so than I am. Have you seen his post game interactions with reporters that call out the shooting and change of style options.

And what you call as a statement wasn't even my statement you trying to put a spin on what I said. Read what I said don't make up your own narrative and try to make it mine

Again stop being butt hurt about Joe. He is a bad coach get over it..

It sounds like you are the one that needs to get over Joe. You not liking his style of play is the sole reason for your posts. We get it. You don?t like 3pt shooting. Thing is.. Brad Stevens does. He runs the team. He hired Joe. If Mazzula was not doing what Stevens wanted, he would not be here.

Thinking that any coach would have a player like Shaq or Giannis pass up dunks is the most ridiculous thing I have read on this site in a long long time.

Being up 20 and still continuing to over shoot threes and losing time after time seems ridiculous to me.

[BitterJim]

This entire thread seems based on a misunderstanding of analytics as "3P > 2P so analytics people only want 3s", when actually that those analytics say that 40% 3P is way better than 50% 2P. Prime Shaq was shooting almost 60% (over 75% inside 3ft), so that alone puts him almost as efficient as 40% 3P shooting, and when you add in the free throws he goes well above it. Reduce his volume a bit to increase his efficiency and you'd end up with an even more efficient scorer, and one that has so much gravity that it helps open up your 3P shooters even more.

If you ask actual analytics people, the best shot isn't an open 3, it's a dunk, then an open layup, then a three. That's why the Morey/Harden Rockets basically scored exclusively in the paint or from behind the arc. Even if you don't like Joe's pholophy or coaching style, saying he would ignore more efficient inside scoring because of an obsession with 3P shots is dumb. Joe disagrees with you about the best way to play basketball, but that doesn't make him an idiot,but he would have to be to ignore Shaq's efficiency and game-breaking ability.

[byennie]

This entire thread seems based on a misunderstanding of analytics as "3P > 2P so analytics people only want 3s", when actually that those analytics say that 40% 3P is way better than 50% 2P. Prime Shaq was shooting almost 60% (over 75% inside 3ft), so that alone puts him almost as efficient as 40% 3P shooting, and when you add in the free throws he goes well above it. Reduce his volume a bit to increase his efficiency and you'd end up with an even more efficient scorer, and one that has so much gravity that it helps open up your 3P shooters even more.

If you ask actual analytics people, the best shot isn't an open 3, it's a dunk, then an open layup, then a three. That's why the Morey/Harden Rockets basically scored exclusively in the paint or from behind the arc. Even if you don't like Joe's pholophy or coaching style, saying he would ignore more efficient inside scoring because of an obsession with 3P shots is dumb. Joe disagrees with you about the best way to play basketball, but that doesn't make him an idiot,but he would have to be to ignore Shaq's efficiency and game-breaking ability.

Well said. The coaching philosophy being criticized literally already accounts for the Shaq factor. We just don't have prime Shaq. The argument is basically: this is what we'd do if we had an elephant, based on our history of refusing to ride around on cats.

[Donoghus]

That's a helluva analogy. I'll have to remember that.