A move that would help this season

[Roy H.]

DeRozan just signed with Denver on a min deal.  I would have been happy to get him on a min deal.

That's not a surprise. Still, I think that if we had signed him, we would have bolstered our chances for a year.

[Vermont Green]

DeRozan just signed with Denver on a min deal.  I would have been happy to get him on a min deal.

That's not a surprise. Still, I think that if we had signed him, we would have bolstered our chances for a year.

Better than Conley I expect. Different role, we need the PG type more, but DeRozan seems to have a lot more left. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Get new owners ?

[Celtics4ever]

I agree with he new owner.  Tp

Tanking for some young cheap talent, though we would never do it.

[SparzWizard]

And get new head coach

[Roy H.]

I wish this would have happened, so at least I could talk myself into the team *trying* to contend this season.  It's just a gut bunch to see Brad take a hammer to a contending roster with two in their prime stars. 

I could justify trading Brown -- even for that terrible return -- if we had actually improved the team and remained a contender.  Instead, we decided that money was better allocated to Jordan Walsh and Ron Harper, Jr.

It seems bizarre to me that we've committed to paying Harper more than the minimum this season and next.  I would have preferred Derozan, who we could have signed for less of a cap hit.   Hell, we could have fielded a full 15-man roster without going over the tax under those circumstances.

Queta / Robinson / Garza
Tatum / Walsh / Cenac
DeRozan / Hauser / Hugo
George / Scheierman / Brown
White / Pritchard / Conley

With the final roster spot, we sign Bruce Brown (although he has to agree to sign after the first week of the season because otherwise we'd be about $40,000 over the tax.)

I'm just torturing myself, but that team is contender, and we'd be adding durable guys that played 79 and 82 games last season.

[Jiri Welsch]

I wish this would have happened, so at least I could talk myself into the team *trying* to contend this season.  It's just a gut bunch to see Brad take a hammer to a contending roster with two in their prime stars. 

I could justify trading Brown -- even for that terrible return -- if we had actually improved the team and remained a contender.  Instead, we decided that money was better allocated to Jordan Walsh and Ron Harper, Jr.

It seems bizarre to me that we've committed to paying Harper more than the minimum this season and next.  I would have preferred Derozan, who we could have signed for less of a cap hit.   Hell, we could have fielded a full 15-man roster without going over the tax under those circumstances.

Queta / Robinson / Garza
Tatum / Walsh / Cenac
DeRozan / Hauser / Hugo
George / Scheierman / Brown
White / Pritchard / Conley

With the final roster spot, we sign Bruce Brown (although he has to agree to sign after the first week of the season because otherwise we'd be about $40,000 over the tax.)

I'm just torturing myself, but that team is contender, and we'd be adding durable guys that played 79 and 82 games last season.

You've said a few times this summer that if the Celtics had kept Brown and improved the roster elsewhere, then they could contend. And I know you're not just venting, it's obvious you believe it!

I'm confused, though, because it feels like all recent evidence suggests otherwise.

Last year they blew a 3-1 lead in the first round. We could be charitable and say Tatum was still coming back from injury and it wasn't representative of what we will see this upcoming year.

Two years prior, they lost to the Knicks in the second round and were clearly the worse team in that series. They blew multiple huge leads, couldn't adjust within the same game, etc. Again, charitable read would mention Tatum's injury, but they were on their way to being down 3-1 even before Tatum got hurt.

Not to mention the fact - which I believe you would agree with, because we both think they need to upgrade the coaching staff - that Joe isn't the quality of coach who can elevate his team come playoff time.

In my opinion, the "your turn, my turn" version of the Celtics was never going to work. And Brad seems to believe that "serious depth" is the modern NBA's third superstar. We'll see if that's true, but I really don't think the Tatum/Brown pairing with Joe at the helm was going to ever get over the hump again.

[slamtheking]

I wish this would have happened, so at least I could talk myself into the team *trying* to contend this season.  It's just a gut bunch to see Brad take a hammer to a contending roster with two in their prime stars. 

I could justify trading Brown -- even for that terrible return -- if we had actually improved the team and remained a contender.  Instead, we decided that money was better allocated to Jordan Walsh and Ron Harper, Jr.

It seems bizarre to me that we've committed to paying Harper more than the minimum this season and next.  I would have preferred Derozan, who we could have signed for less of a cap hit.   Hell, we could have fielded a full 15-man roster without going over the tax under those circumstances.

Queta / Robinson / Garza
Tatum / Walsh / Cenac
DeRozan / Hauser / Hugo
George / Scheierman / Brown
White / Pritchard / Conley

With the final roster spot, we sign Bruce Brown (although he has to agree to sign after the first week of the season because otherwise we'd be about $40,000 over the tax.)

I'm just torturing myself, but that team is contender, and we'd be adding durable guys that played 79 and 82 games last season.

You've said a few times this summer that if the Celtics had kept Brown and improved the roster elsewhere, then they could contend. And I know you're not just venting, it's obvious you believe it!

I'm confused, though, because it feels like all recent evidence suggests otherwise.

Last year they blew a 3-1 lead in the first round. We could be charitable and say Tatum was still coming back from injury and it wasn't representative of what we will see this upcoming year.

Two years prior, they lost to the Knicks in the second round and were clearly the worse team in that series. They blew multiple huge leads, couldn't adjust within the same game, etc. Again, charitable read would mention Tatum's injury, but they were on their way to being down 3-1 even before Tatum got hurt.

Not to mention the fact - which I believe you would agree with, because we both think they need to upgrade the coaching staff - that Joe isn't the quality of coach who can elevate his team come playoff time.

In my opinion, the "your turn, my turn" version of the Celtics was never going to work. And Brad seems to believe that "serious depth" is the modern NBA's third superstar. We'll see if that's true, but I really don't think the Tatum/Brown pairing with Joe at the helm was going to ever get over the hump again.

and the key problem has been identified

[Roy H.]

I wish this would have happened, so at least I could talk myself into the team *trying* to contend this season.  It's just a gut bunch to see Brad take a hammer to a contending roster with two in their prime stars. 

I could justify trading Brown -- even for that terrible return -- if we had actually improved the team and remained a contender.  Instead, we decided that money was better allocated to Jordan Walsh and Ron Harper, Jr.

It seems bizarre to me that we've committed to paying Harper more than the minimum this season and next.  I would have preferred Derozan, who we could have signed for less of a cap hit.   Hell, we could have fielded a full 15-man roster without going over the tax under those circumstances.

Queta / Robinson / Garza
Tatum / Walsh / Cenac
DeRozan / Hauser / Hugo
George / Scheierman / Brown
White / Pritchard / Conley

With the final roster spot, we sign Bruce Brown (although he has to agree to sign after the first week of the season because otherwise we'd be about $40,000 over the tax.)

I'm just torturing myself, but that team is contender, and we'd be adding durable guys that played 79 and 82 games last season.

You've said a few times this summer that if the Celtics had kept Brown and improved the roster elsewhere, then they could contend. And I know you're not just venting, it's obvious you believe it!

I'm confused, though, because it feels like all recent evidence suggests otherwise.

Last year they blew a 3-1 lead in the first round. We could be charitable and say Tatum was still coming back from injury and it wasn't representative of what we will see this upcoming year.

Two years prior, they lost to the Knicks in the second round and were clearly the worse team in that series. They blew multiple huge leads, couldn't adjust within the same game, etc. Again, charitable read would mention Tatum's injury, but they were on their way to being down 3-1 even before Tatum got hurt.

Not to mention the fact - which I believe you would agree with, because we both think they need to upgrade the coaching staff - that Joe isn't the quality of coach who can elevate his team come playoff time.

In my opinion, the "your turn, my turn" version of the Celtics was never going to work. And Brad seems to believe that "serious depth" is the modern NBA's third superstar. We'll see if that's true, but I really don't think the Tatum/Brown pairing with Joe at the helm was going to ever get over the hump again.

I think that there's plenty of recent evidence that this team could contend with the Tatum/Brown core.  That includes:

* A title in 2024 (i.e., two years ago)
* Six trips to the ECF in eight seasons
* Finals in 2022 with Marcus Smart as our third best scorer (14.4 ppg)
* Top-two seed every season since 2022

Counter-examples:

* 2025 second round, when our starting center had a mystery illness and Brown and Jrue were both banged up. 
* 2026 first round in a bridge year when Tatum was still recovering and when the entire team turtled in the playoffs

Which data set tells you more about the quality of that duo?

The 2025 team won 61 games and beat Orlando in five games.  They were a contender, regardless of a poor series when 3/5 of the starters were hurt before Tatum went down.

The easiest way for this team to improve would have been to sign Robinson, bring back Brown, and improve the coaching staff.  We also had the financial means to sign at least one vet minimum free agent such as Derozan, Bruce Brown, Brandon Mitchell, etc.

That team could have competed for a title.

[Jiri Welsch]

Not going to keep quoting because our posts have been kind of long.

But in response to you, Roy, I'd argue that the most recent data is more predictive of the future.

I don't think Brown and Tatum plus Robinson would have been enough to compete for a title next year. What happened last year (Brown thinking he's the 1a on the Celtics, Brown making his comments about his "favorite season," etc.) can't be undone.

I also don't think a 37 year old DeRozan is moving the needle quite as much as you're envisioning. Especially not on a 3-point shooting team like the Celtics.

[Goldstar88]

Not going to keep quoting because our posts have been kind of long.

But in response to you, Roy, I'd argue that the most recent data is more predictive of the future.

I don't think Brown and Tatum plus Robinson would have been enough to compete for a title next year. What happened last year (Brown thinking he's the 1a on the Celtics, Brown making his comments about his "favorite season," etc.) can't be undone.

I also don't think a 37 year old DeRozan is moving the needle quite as much as you're envisioning. Especially not on a 3-point shooting team like the Celtics.

Brad seemed to suggested this as well during his end of year presser. Stating that their record was 3-11 against top tier teams. It did not sounds like he viewed the Celtics as a contender.

[Vermont Green]

Not going to keep quoting because our posts have been kind of long.

But in response to you, Roy, I'd argue that the most recent data is more predictive of the future.

I don't think Brown and Tatum plus Robinson would have been enough to compete for a title next year. What happened last year (Brown thinking he's the 1a on the Celtics, Brown making his comments about his "favorite season," etc.) can't be undone.

I also don't think a 37 year old DeRozan is moving the needle quite as much as you're envisioning. Especially not on a 3-point shooting team like the Celtics.

Brad suggested this as well during his end of year presser. Specifically stating that their record was not great against good teams. It did not see like he viewed the team as a contender.

I think this discussion is leaving out a key point.  Based on statements by Stevens and some conjecture by me, I would say that what Stevens believed is that this team with both Tatum and in particular Brown on super-max deals, was not in a position to contend.  I suspect that Stevens would have been happy with a team that included Tatum on a super max and Brown on something less (conjecture).  Brown is at 35%+ of cap for the next 3 seasons and probably expects to be extended for more at the same level.

BOS may be stuck with George at a 35% salary for (2) more seasons, which is not great either.  But they have some pretty good picks to work with (either use or trade them).  What I suspect Stevens believes is that the team will be better in the long run, have a better chance at a title at some point as opposed to never having a chance if they kept Brown and extended him.  Stevens weighed everything (at least I hope he did), Brown's abilities, advanced stats, salary, team fit/chemistry, etc, and came to this conclusion.

I can't say for sure if he is right or not, honestly.  It is true that BOS crashed out of the playoffs the last two seasons.  There is no way that they will be able to put players like Holiday on the team with the aprons, so you really can't use the title team as a baseline.  But I see a Tatum-Brown led team as better than the a first or second round exit team.  That feels like a finals team if they do well filling out the rest of the roster.  But apparently, Stevens did not see it that way.