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Presser take aways.
« on: Yesterday at 07:21:52 PM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I know that no one gives a crap that I spent my career shooting sports as a cameraman. BUT, Holy crap, I think more was said than i can believe! #1 Brad knew from Jump that everyone would hate this trade!! #2. He said with sincerity, he doesn?t expect anything will happen right now. #3. The literally rehearsed the press conference! that was rehearsed! Probably used a camera and recorded many trial runs!! #4. The brain trust believes there will be big opportunities in the coming Years. Not this year, maybe next. #5. Nothing is as it appears, yes PG is for flexibility, but after the presser I believe Brad has some clear targets for 27/28. #6. The owner stated that when Brad is ready, and the players he is looking at down the road align, he will spend the money!!! 7. Brad truly believes he is the smartest guy in the room. We will see.
Look, I shot a lot of stuff in sports and to me this spoke volumes. My takeaway, nothing will happen this summer, maybe a small move. But, Brad has big plans for a year from now. Who knows, we will see.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 07:34:22 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'm upset Bill Chisolm wasn't asked more questions in the presser, but boy he looked shook answering the 3 to 4 questions he was asked, like he wasn't ready for the moment. Well guess what buddy, if you treat this like the Red Sox post-2018, the fans and media will shred you and rightfully so. He's absolutely gonna get booed if he steps in the Garden next season, I'm curious to see if he still shows up on the sidelines this season like he did last season.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 07:39:33 PM »

Offline lbgreen33

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Ya, I don?t think ownership was as rehearsed as Brad was. But, Brad was rehearsed, when you do a rehearsal, you come up with a key word, that word is your safety net. I really do think Brad has a well thought out plan. This was not desperation, that is my feeling and I hope I am right.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 07:53:01 PM »

Online ozgod

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I've been mentioning that for a while now. With these aprons the days of spending a lot of money all the time are over, not just because of the tax, but because of the aprons. And specifically the cost involved in undoing a wrong decision with overvalued, overpaid players that gets you stuck in one of the aprons, specifically the 2nd apron (just look at the Suns as an example, or even Philly before our trade - like they still had to give up two first to get rid of PG13).

When you look at our cap position over the next 4 seasons:

(click to enlarge)



This is probably the most unfun part of the entire NBA for a lot of people. Because a) it's hard to understand it all and b) who wants to figure out accounting when we're watching sports, dreaming about championships? But unfortunately this is the "constraints" part of the game, because the league has a soft salary cap and a set of increasingly punitive punishments if thresholds are exceeded. The first penalty is a financial one (tax) the next two hit you in roster building, by removing your flexibility and (as Brad said, to general derision) "optionality" (I assume he means he wants to have options going forward rather than be locked into a roster and be unable to make changes if plans change.

Since it can be confusing to look at the actual cap, I summarized it to see how much committed money the Celtics have to players for the next 4 seasons, compared to the cap, the tax, the 1st apron and the 2nd apron. (The difference between Spotrac's Active Cap and my "Committed Money" is that I just added Mitchell Robinson and Mike Conley to their Active Cap number, which they excluded because they probably haven't completed signing their contracts yet).

(click to enlarge)


So basically this season we are just over the tax (though with PG13 waiving his trade bonus that might bring us just below it). In any case we have little flexibility now unless we want to exceed the tax again. Since we went below it last season we didn't pay the repeater rate, if we drop below it this season we reset the rate, back to the base rate which is an approximate 300% (it's a proportional tax like income tax so I'm just providing a general rate, don't shoot me if you know the exact bracket rates, I do too but it would be too complicated and boring to explain it here, literally like doing a tax return). If we don't, we go back to the repeater rate which is around 575%.

We reset it if we can go below 2 out of the last 4 seasons. If you look at the table, next season we are already over it with the committed salaries we have with 11 players (assuming PG13 opts in to the last year of his contract). Now they might be able to convince him not to opt in if they offer him a new contract of 3y/$25m or something, but right now we're on the hook for his $56m. And that's not taking into account extensions we have to negotiate with Garza, Banton, Walsh and maybe Conley. So whichever way you look at it, next year is a big spend year - it's probably not a tax ducking year. Then the year after that we have more players coming off the books that either need to be extended or not, but because we figure to be under the cap with 8 signed players we can sign some free agents before extending our own.

So whenBrad talks about "optionality" that's what I think he's talking about - the flexibility to sign players and make roster changes heading into those big spend years, where you have committed money already where you are going to be over the tax, and maybe the first apron, no matter what. So it's not just enough to say "Tatum has a 10 year prime we have to maximize the whole 10 years", it's picking when of those 10 years you can really make a big impact.

Sometimes I regret ever learning about the cap and aprons and all this stuff (I have people here I can blame for educating me  ;D) because it's not exactly a fun way to dream about championships. We want to dream about championships and great players every season, not think about "spending windows". It does help me better understand why they do things they do though.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:02:08 PM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 08:03:47 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Ya, I don?t think ownership was as rehearsed as Brad was. But, Brad was rehearsed, when you do a rehearsal, you come up with a key word, that word is your safety net. I really do think Brad has a well thought out plan. This was not desperation, that is my feeling and I hope I am right.

He pretty much summed it up in his opening statement - it?s very hard to put a championship team when 70 or so percent of your cap is eaten up by two players. What can be inferred but he did not say directly is - we can?t win with JT and JB having most of our cap space. That?s why he pointed out that when they won it all, the Jays were only at 47% of the cap? If we got Giannis, our cap would be pretty much tied up to 2 players but Giannis would give us a much more different playing style. An inside force and a defensive anchor. When that failed, he probably felt that there was still a need to trade JB for a shorter tenured player (PG) plus assets. No way was he going to give  JB that extension. I totally understand where Brad is coming from.

My second takeaway is that Wyc is far more charismatic than Bill! How i wish Pags and his group won the bid.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 08:03:53 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'm upset Bill Chisolm wasn't asked more questions in the presser, but boy he looked shook answering the 3 to 4 questions he was asked, like he wasn't ready for the moment. Well guess what buddy, if you treat this like the Red Sox post-2018, the fans and media will shred you and rightfully so. He's absolutely gonna get booed if he steps in the Garden next season, I'm curious to see if he still shows up on the sidelines this season like he did last season.

I liked the part where he said this is not about money and the 2nd Apron in the same sentence without realizing it.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 08:07:59 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Quote
I'm upset Bill Chisolm wasn't asked more questions in the presser, but boy he looked shook answering the 3 to 4 questions he was asked, like he wasn't ready for the moment. Well guess what buddy, if you treat this like the Red Sox post-2018, the fans and media will shred you and rightfully so. He's absolutely gonna get booed if he steps in the Garden next season, I'm curious to see if he still shows up on the sidelines this season like he did last season.

I liked the part where he said this is not about money and the 2nd Apron in the same sentence without realizing it.

I think he got confused and defensive at the same time. He probably wanted to say ?hey i have the money to spend but the rules simply don?t make that a wise business decision?.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 08:40:26 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Quote
I'm upset Bill Chisolm wasn't asked more questions in the presser, but boy he looked shook answering the 3 to 4 questions he was asked, like he wasn't ready for the moment. Well guess what buddy, if you treat this like the Red Sox post-2018, the fans and media will shred you and rightfully so. He's absolutely gonna get booed if he steps in the Garden next season, I'm curious to see if he still shows up on the sidelines this season like he did last season.

I liked the part where he said this is not about money and the 2nd Apron in the same sentence without realizing it.

The low point in the presser. Chisholm had been quiet up to that point.
If it wasn't about money, what was it about? George isn't another KG or Russell, so it had to be about that 3rd year of Brown, along with his possible extension.
Somewhere along the Giannis talks, somebody in the media said Giannis wanted 3 years, the Celtics said only 2. End of discussion.
It figures George was attractive for his 2 years. Possibly a buyout in year 2. They probably surfed the league, and this was the best option.

Are they looking for less perimeter and more post this season? Sure. That's what the other signings are for.
But make no mistake, Brown was traded because of money. That 3rd year plus extension option.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 08:55:03 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Can a decision be both about money and winning?  Of course it can.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 09:03:11 PM »

Online ozgod

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Quote
I'm upset Bill Chisolm wasn't asked more questions in the presser, but boy he looked shook answering the 3 to 4 questions he was asked, like he wasn't ready for the moment. Well guess what buddy, if you treat this like the Red Sox post-2018, the fans and media will shred you and rightfully so. He's absolutely gonna get booed if he steps in the Garden next season, I'm curious to see if he still shows up on the sidelines this season like he did last season.

I liked the part where he said this is not about money and the 2nd Apron in the same sentence without realizing it.

Taking him and Brad at face value, I think when they were saying "this is not about money", they were talking about these penalties for exceeding the first and second aprons, as opposed to just paying more tax or spending more on payroll:

First apron:

  • Sign-and-trades are not permitted if the player acquired keeps the team above the apron.
  • Cannot sign players who were waived during the regular season if their salary was above the $12.2 million mid-level exception.
  • Salary matching in trades has to be within 110% instead of the 125% teams in good standing get.

Second apron:

  • Includes all first-apron penalties
  • Cannot have access to the MLE in free agency or absorbing contracts.
  • Cannot trade first-round picks from seven years out.
  • Cannot use trade exceptions from previous years.
  • Cannot use cash in trades.
  • First round pick moves straight to the end of the first round if the team stays in the second apron for three of five years.

Like as Brad said, ?We may not be sitting here if there was a rule in the CBA that said the guys that you drafted that you signed to a 35 percent supermaxes count as 25 percent of the cap. Because then that would allow you to build out towards the aprons with a lot more flexibility, but the reality is that those are hard to build.?

Of course, for cynics the first and second apron penalties also provide cover for cheap owners. Whether Bill Chisholm is one of those or not is up to each person to decide  :angel:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 10:04:01 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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Crap move, but whatever at this stage. If the fans start turning negative during games, it won't help anything. The best thing people can do is support the team and hope for the best, or at least give them a chance. Booing and being hostile at this stage would be completely counterproductive.

Especially with PG, it didn't go unnoticed that he waived his trade kicker. He must have wanted out of Philly, and that fan base had become pretty toxic. Replicating that here won't help anyone.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 11:36:40 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Crap move, but whatever at this stage. If the fans start turning negative during games, it won't help anything. The best thing people can do is support the team and hope for the best, or at least give them a chance. Booing and being hostile at this stage would be completely counterproductive.

Especially with PG, it didn't go unnoticed that he waived his trade kicker. He must have wanted out of Philly, and that fan base had become pretty toxic. Replicating that here won't help anyone.

I just saw Bleacher Report?s power ranking and we?re right up there at #4. Oddsmakers have us with the 4th best odds of winning it all next season (+1100). Time will tell but it seems like we are still a top tier team without JB.

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #12 on: Today at 12:01:31 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Crap move, but whatever at this stage. If the fans start turning negative during games, it won't help anything. The best thing people can do is support the team and hope for the best, or at least give them a chance. Booing and being hostile at this stage would be completely counterproductive.

Especially with PG, it didn't go unnoticed that he waived his trade kicker. He must have wanted out of Philly, and that fan base had become pretty toxic. Replicating that here won't help anyone.

I just saw Bleacher Report?s power ranking and we?re right up there at #4. Oddsmakers have us with the 4th best odds of winning it all next season (+1100). Time will tell but it seems like we are still a top tier team without JB.

Agreed. Amidst all the emotion and drama, we need to remember that vs last year, we:
1) upgraded our center position with Robinson (while keeping Q)
2) upgraded our forward position (we lost JB but we gain JT)
3) got some extra shooting and wing help in Paul George

This is a better team than last year, and that is without even any young player improving.
- LilRip

Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:36:00 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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So the Cs are sorta kicking the can down the road, though hopefully not as far as the Sox are kicking it.

I still don?t buy Boston as the fourth-best team in the NBA, but I also think the regular season is kinda irrelevant ? the postseason is what matters most, and the Cs will need quite a few things to go right in order for them to go deep in the playoffs.
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Re: Presser take aways.
« Reply #14 on: Today at 12:44:38 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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So the Cs are sorta kicking the can down the road, though hopefully not as far as the Sox are kicking it.

I still don?t buy Boston as the fourth-best team in the NBA, but I also think the regular season is kinda irrelevant ? the postseason is what matters most, and the Cs will need quite a few things to go right in order for them to go deep in the playoffs.

I think that is true, but I think that is true for most teams in the East.  The Knicks had a heck of a run this last year, but with losing a couple key contributors to free agency and not replacing them with anyone but minimum guys, will they be the first team since the 2018-2019 Warriors to take a repeat visit to the Finals?  Have the Pistons gotten any better, or just shuffled in different players that look like the old ones who did not get it done?  Philly has added Jaylen, but he has struggled a lot in the playoffs outside 2024.  Cleveland lost Dean Wade and has yet added no one.  Etc.

Is this going to be the 2024 team that steamrolled everyone on the way to the championship?  Does not feel like it.  Could this be the 2022 team that got to Finals after they looked dead in mid-January, or the 2023 team that came a game short of the Finals?  Yeah, those are possibilities.