Do you trust JB?

[Celtics4ever]

So he is blaming the refs for having an agenda.

I do think the refs, got our bigs in foul trouble and got Embiid going each game with FTAs.   I also, we got called for things, that Sixers got away with.  That being said, we lost the series, on missing shots and good D by the Sixers.

Brown also said this was his favorite year as a Celtic.   So he may want to go be the man somewhere.

His D is why he won the finals MVP.   Tatum had more points overall, but Brown outscored Tatum in games 1, 2, and set the tone for the whole series.   I do not buy the Tatum was guarding centers arguments.  Brown was guarding Luka and Tatum was guarding Daniel Gafford so that is not the same level of D required. 

I have always thought Brown was at best when driving.

[Moranis]

Do i trust a 5 all star, 2x all nba, finals MVP? Yes.

Well twice now in a game 7 JB had the stage to himself and did nothing with it. The year JT got hurt vs Miami and the other night.

 Really wasn't a factor in the 2023 game 7 vs Philly either.
Good regular season player. Inconsistent playoff player.

Brown is more of a Robin than a Batman. He just can't see it. Can't have the opinion he has about himself and not show up in the playoffs.

I just don't agree with anything you just wrote. I thought he was pretty good in the game 7, not good enough but he went toe to toe with a former league MVP and was one or two shots away from winning a game in which the Celtics shot 27% from three.

As for "can't have that opinion of himself and not show up" I just don't really have a lot of patience for this sort of pseudo psychological basketball analysis. Not sure what to do with it, I just don't find it useful. Athletes are allowed to be confident, then are allowed to have a chip on their shoulder, it's fine. As for his playoff performance I think overall he's been good, he's had two series in his life I thought he was actively bad in and those were NYK last year (on a torn meniscus) and that MIA series.,

Where I come out is this: Are you winning a title with Jaylen as your best player? No. Your best player is typically an MVP/DPOY level guy, and Jaylen isn't that. But do I have any problem with a guy THINKING he's that level of player when he's not? No I do not. Whatever motivates a guy is fine by me.

The problem the C's have is "attitude" or any number of other vague meaningless nonsense we as fans love to throw around. Its talent. In the last 21 seasons (2005-2025) only ONE team won an NBA championship without either an MVP or DPOY on their roster. That was your 2024 Boston Celtics. Its REALLY HARD TO DO.

The Celtics primary problem is they don't have that one unstoppable offensive engine type guy, the one undeniable guy. Tatum is a good offensive player, but a lot of his value is being a well rounded guy without weakness rather than a true offensive superstar. This results in the Celtics needing to lean HEAVILY into the 3 ball essentially gaming the math to generate elite offense. That can work, but there's always the possibility that the shooting desserts you for three games and you blow a 3-1 lead because you shoot 28% in games 5-7. It happens. Its not really Brown, Tatum or Mazzula's fault per se. It's a roster issue, one that is very hard to fix.

Its part of the reason the "shoot less threes" people are wrong. The Celtics could probably have a more "normal offense" with more shooting balance, but the net result would be an offense with less upside. Because they simply do not have the right pieces to make a two-point heavy offense work. The upside is what you need to win the title, in return you will get some series like this one where the shooting betrays you. That's the tradeoff.

You can go back to 1989. The Pistons are the next most recent team to not have a DPOY or MVP on the roster and it is 89 and not 90 because Rodman won the DPOY in 1990 (and 91).  Before that is was the 1981 Celtics who won that title before Bird got his 1st MVP. 

[aefgogreen]

For those that want to trade him, what could we get in return?

[Vermont Green]

Brown is more of a Robin than a Batman. He just can't see it. Can't have the opinion he has about himself and not show up in the playoffs.

It is true that Brown is more of a Robin than a Batman, at least on this team, but what is wrong with that?  He had a season where he played like a top 10 player in the league, will probably end up around 6th in MVP voting.  He may be the best Robin in the league.  And could be a Batman on a number of teams.   I don't see why that is a problem, something to be criticized for.

As to the opinion of himself, I don't know what his opinion of himself is, but I don't see it as a problem.  He averaged 28.7 Pts regular season but dropped down to 25.7.  He has been uneven in the playoffs but still really good for a Robin.  And plays good if not great defense.   How did it get to the point that anything less than taking over every playoff game means you can't trust him?

[rondohondo]

For those that want to trade him, what could we get in return?

Brown for Sengun

Brown for giannis

Brown for adebayo

You may have to add additional picks or prospects to get it done, but I would start with those 3

[jambr380]

For those that want to trade him, what could we get in return?

Brown for Sengun

Brown for giannis

Brown for adebayo

You may have to add additional picks or prospects to get it done, but I would start with those 3

Giannis is an obvious one, but I?ve thought about Adebayo for a while. No, he doesn?t have the ceiling that Jaylen has, but he comes in a little bit cheaper and I would love to see what he?d look like playing with Tatum.

I don?t think it?s going to happen, but I think that?s about where expectations should be if we do actually pull the trigger on trading Jaylen.

[Goldstar88]

For those that want to trade him, what could we get in return?

Brown for Sengun

Brown for giannis

Brown for adebayo

You may have to add additional picks or prospects to get it done, but I would start with those 3

I?m out on Sengun until he gets himself into better shape. I doubt Miami would want to Swap Bam for JB. Giannis is our best bet since he wants out and the Bucks likely can?t do better than trading for JB and then flipping him to Atl for a Jalen Johnson and a bunch of picks.

[Donoghus]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

[rondohondo]

Alperen Şeng?n trade rumors for the 2026 offseason suggest the Houston Rockets could use him as a centerpiece to acquire a superstar, such as Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kawhi Leonard, or Donovan Mitchell. Following a disappointing playoff exit and a "win-now" focus with Kevin Durant, Houston may explore moving Şeng?n due to his high trade value, valued at \(\$35.6\) million in salary ballast.

[Goldstar88]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

When JB is telling everyone that he is the best two way player in the world and the leader of the team, he deserves the blame. Tatum does not need JB. Pair him with Giannis, Kawhi, KD. If Boston had any of those guys instead of Brown they likely advance to round 2.

[slamtheking]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

When JB is telling everyone that he is the best two way player in the world and the leader of the team, he deserves the blame. Tatum does not need JB. Pair him with Giannis, Kawhi, KD. If Boston had any of those guys instead of Brown they likely advance to round 2.

he deserves some blame but I give the bulk of it to Joe for p----poor coaching (completely unable to adjust on the fly and that starting game 7 line-up should get him fired) and White for being a complete non-factor the whole series as well as some of the blame to PP for having a Jekyll and Hyde series, Hauser for essentially contributing nothing in the series, Q for not staying out of foul trouble and Walsh for still not being able to do anything on offense.  Add some to Tatum for having a lackadaisical attitude for the games he did play.

Plenty of blame to go around.  this wasn't just on JB by any means

[Donoghus]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

When JB is telling everyone that he is the best two way player in the world and the leader of the team, he deserves the blame. Tatum does not need JB. Pair him with Giannis, Kawhi, KD. If Boston had any of those guys instead of Brown they likely advance to round 2.

he deserves some blame but I give the bulk of it to Joe for p----poor coaching (completely unable to adjust on the fly and that starting game 7 line-up should get him fired) and White for being a complete non-factor the whole series as well as some of the blame to PP for having a Jekyll and Hyde series, Hauser for essentially contributing nothing in the series, Q for not staying out of foul trouble and Walsh for still not being able to do anything on offense.  Add some to Tatum for having a lackadaisical attitude for the games he did play.

Plenty of blame to go around.  this wasn't just on JB by any means

Bingo.

[Goldstar88]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

When JB is telling everyone that he is the best two way player in the world and the leader of the team, he deserves the blame. Tatum does not need JB. Pair him with Giannis, Kawhi, KD. If Boston had any of those guys instead of Brown they likely advance to round 2.

he deserves some blame but I give the bulk of it to Joe for p----poor coaching (completely unable to adjust on the fly and that starting game 7 line-up should get him fired) and White for being a complete non-factor the whole series as well as some of the blame to PP for having a Jekyll and Hyde series, Hauser for essentially contributing nothing in the series, Q for not staying out of foul trouble and Walsh for still not being able to do anything on offense.  Add some to Tatum for having a lackadaisical attitude for the games he did play.

Plenty of blame to go around.  this wasn't just on JB by any means

I never said it was as all on Brown, but I put the most blame on him. If the Celtics had Giannis, Kawhi, or KD instead of JB they advance, IMO.

[slamtheking]

Sure but he & Tatum needs each other.  I know he seems to be the scapegoat right now but a lot of things went wrong this series but he's the easy target.

When JB is telling everyone that he is the best two way player in the world and the leader of the team, he deserves the blame. Tatum does not need JB. Pair him with Giannis, Kawhi, KD. If Boston had any of those guys instead of Brown they likely advance to round 2.

he deserves some blame but I give the bulk of it to Joe for p----poor coaching (completely unable to adjust on the fly and that starting game 7 line-up should get him fired) and White for being a complete non-factor the whole series as well as some of the blame to PP for having a Jekyll and Hyde series, Hauser for essentially contributing nothing in the series, Q for not staying out of foul trouble and Walsh for still not being able to do anything on offense.  Add some to Tatum for having a lackadaisical attitude for the games he did play.

Plenty of blame to go around.  this wasn't just on JB by any means

I never said it was as all on Brown, but I put the most blame on him. If the Celtics had Giannis, Kawhi, or KD instead of JB they advance, IMO.

so you're point is that you're not laying this on Joe where it primarily belongs nor on any of the other players on the team who didn't produce squat during this series but on the one guy that did other than Tatum and that if we had one of the handful of players better than JB we'd have won.   got it, although those players you called out are noticeably absent from the second round and Giannis didn't even make the play-in so I think your hypothesis is wrong.

[Yuckabuck33]

JB has never been the leader of this team, why would that change?

He was the leader of a not exactly stacked team all season and the team did pretty well.  I am not exactly clear what exactly this question is asking that I trust about him.  That he is going to be the best player on a title team?  That he is a high level #2, 2nd or 3rd team all NBA, perennial all star?

He is an imperfect but very good player.  What exactly is there to trust or not trust?

Brown was the best player but that doesn't mean he was the leader.  I think White was the leader when Tatum wasn't around. 

The best player and the leader are often not the same player (often are, just not always).  I don't think this team has ever followed Brown at any point and I don't think they ever will.  Brown doesn't have great leadership skills and is frankly weird (at least from the public stuff he shows us).

    Maybe we have different definitions of leader if you  think Derrick White was the  leader. Listen to the interviews from the young guys. Over and over again they spoke about how Jaylen had helped them. Nobody said that about DWhite. And you can't say Brown's series was worse than Derrick's either.
     This is the 1st time Jaylen has led a team in the playoffs. For many of the guys, it was their first playoff experience. What exactly did you expect? Everyone said this team was playin fodder. Did you really expect ECF? The hate for JB from this board is ridiculous. Should we have traded Tatum summer of 22 because we can't trust him to lead a team in his first ever Finals? Of course not, but that's exactly what many of you are saying about Brown.
    And as usual, a lot of people think it was Jaylen's decision to play so much in isolation. Nobody thinks it was Joe telling him to play that way? If Joe had played the same rotation from the regular season and told JB to play the way they did all year, you know he would have.
    Just like people think Marcus Smart decided to chuck so many 3s. It's obvious his coaches wanted him to. But everyone wants to blame the player and ascribe negative character traits to them. It's BS.
    (In psychology its called the Fundamental Attribution Error: point to the circumstances when explaining your own behavior but only point to negative character defects in others. "I pulled out in front of that car because my view was blocked, but that other car pulled out in front of me because he's a selfish JERK." And Jaylen stuck with iso plays because he's a low BBIQ selfish jerk who can't lead.)