Giannis for JB trade (poll)

[Who]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

I would put money on this team finishing lower in the East if they run it back followed up by a first round exit again.

They need a lot to be a legit contender. A #1 center. More playmaking off the bench. Sam Hauser cannot be your starter.

Hugo needs to learn how not to be an offensive liability. Baylor needs to take a big step next season.

Garza can be your 3rd center

Walsh can go. He does very little to impact winning.

I would send Sam out also.

Bench would be PP, Baylor, Hugo. Queta and a few more pieces.

Starter would be JB (if they keep him), JT, White, ?, ?

Celtics need some speed also. Need a quick guard that can get to the rim.

This is a big one. 

When this game was on the line in the final minutes and both teams were struggling to make shots, Maxxey's ability to get to the basket for easy layups was a difference maker.  He used his brain and did EXACTLY what the game needed while all of our guys kept blindly thowing up bricks and praying that one would go in. 

Tatum is one of the only guys on this roster who can get to the basket almost at will when he needs to.  Brown SHOLULD be able to, but didn't do it nearly as often as he should have in this series.

We get a speedy PG ... odds are we get a defensive liability. A slender often smallish guard who can't switch on defense.

I agree we need another guard but I would like to see another combo guard to switch back to the 3 guard backcourt with D-White, PP and the 3rd guard. Like we had with Jrue. An extra ball-handler and ball mover to help the Jays with ball movement.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Works on the Trade Machine, but we'd have to take his brothers.

[celticinorlando]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Oh god no.

I can agree with most of it but not that part. You need another big man that can play defense. Now if you want to keep Vucevic and add that guy in place of Garza, then fine. They CAN NOT roll it back with just Queta/Vucevic/Garza again. Even if it's not Giannis, find someone else.

If we can get a big man who plays good defense, I am happy to move on from Vucevic.

If we cannot get that big man, I want to keep Vooch.

I think Vuc is better than he showed in Boston. Joe did not know how to use him and that is no surprise.

Vuc was really good on offense for the Bulls. Defense is what it is. But he probably needs to start and play with high level players. Broken finger hurt him. And Joe doomed him.

[ozgod]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Oh god no.

I can agree with most of it but not that part. You need another big man that can play defense. Now if you want to keep Vucevic and add that guy in place of Garza, then fine. They CAN NOT roll it back with just Queta/Vucevic/Garza again. Even if it's not Giannis, find someone else.

If we can get a big man who plays good defense, I am happy to move on from Vucevic.

If we cannot get that big man, I want to keep Vooch.

We will probably keep Vuc for a much lower number. But he's going to be a fringe player. And the players that fit your criteria "big man who plays good defense" isn't going to come cheap, which we need them to be if we're going to stay below the tax. That's why most of us say we want "a big who can play defense" or "a big who will make a difference" or "a big who is better than Vuc or Q" because it's hard to actually name one 

Here's a list of bigs and their current contracts:

(click to enlarge)


Half of these probably aren't even available and the ones that are, that are in our price range, are going to be flawed. So we have to pick what they're good at and live with what they are bad at. Again, unless we are willing to part with something that would cause one of these other teams that has a dominant big that we want to consider a trade. Maybe Derick Lively? Daniel Gafford? He seems to have worn out his welcome in Dallas, might we entice them with Hauser and Walsh? Clint Capela?

[Muzzy66]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

I would put money on this team finishing lower in the East if they run it back followed up by a first round exit again.

They need a lot to be a legit contender. A #1 center. More playmaking off the bench. Sam Hauser cannot be your starter.

Hugo needs to learn how not to be an offensive liability. Baylor needs to take a big step next season.

Garza can be your 3rd center

Walsh can go. He does very little to impact winning.

I would send Sam out also.

Bench would be PP, Baylor, Hugo. Queta and a few more pieces.

Starter would be JB (if they keep him), JT, White, ?, ?

Celtics need some speed also. Need a quick guard that can get to the rim.

This is a big one. 

When this game was on the line in the final minutes and both teams were struggling to make shots, Maxxey's ability to get to the basket for easy layups was a difference maker.  He used his brain and did EXACTLY what the game needed while all of our guys kept blindly thowing up bricks and praying that one would go in. 

Tatum is one of the only guys on this roster who can get to the basket almost at will when he needs to.  Brown SHOLULD be able to, but didn't do it nearly as often as he should have in this series.

We get a speedy PG ... odds are we get a defensive liability. A slender often smallish guard who can't switch on defense.

I agree we need another guard but I would like to see another combo guard to switch back to the 3 guard backcourt with D-White, PP and the 3rd guard. Like we had with Jrue. An extra ball-handler and ball mover to help the Jays with ball movement.

We have White, Brown, Tatum - three exceptional (and among the most versile) perimeter defenders in the league.   If Queta could find a way to stay out of foul trouble then that's an elite four man defensive squad.  I think that could be effective enough to hide the flaws of a weak perimeter defender.

But at the end fo the day I don't think it necessarily has to be a slashing guard.  We just need SOMEONE who can get us consistent, easy points inside 10 feet when we need it.  Whether that's a perimeter slasher, good post player or an elite rim running P&R finisher - we need someone thaat can put pressure on the interior to draw defenses away from our shooters. 

[angryguy77]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Much better for a team that just choked a 3-1 lead is?

You can't run this back amd expect better from a coach who has more playoffs underachieving moments than not...by a wide margin.

[Who]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Oh god no.

I can agree with most of it but not that part. You need another big man that can play defense. Now if you want to keep Vucevic and add that guy in place of Garza, then fine. They CAN NOT roll it back with just Queta/Vucevic/Garza again. Even if it's not Giannis, find someone else.

If we can get a big man who plays good defense, I am happy to move on from Vucevic.

If we cannot get that big man, I want to keep Vooch.

I think Vuc is better than he showed in Boston. Joe did not know how to use him and that is no surprise.

Vuc was really good on offense for the Bulls. Defense is what it is. But he probably needs to start and play with high level players. Broken finger hurt him. And Joe doomed him.

Yeah, that is where I am with Vooch as well.

Folks talk about his post ups a lot but they don't talk enough about his midrange shooting, PnR threat, PnP threat, passing ability from both low post & high post. He is a versatile offensive threat that can give this Boston offense more variety.

We already have an in-house solution to developing more offensive variety = Vucevic.

[angryguy77]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

I would put money on this team finishing lower in the East if they run it back followed up by a first round exit again.

They need a lot to be a legit contender. A #1 center. More playmaking off the bench. Sam Hauser cannot be your starter.

Hugo needs to learn how not to be an offensive liability. Baylor needs to take a big step next season.

Garza can be your 3rd center

Walsh can go. He does very little to impact winning.

I would send Sam out also.

Bench would be PP, Baylor, Hugo. Queta and a few more pieces.

Starter would be JB (if they keep him), JT, White, ?, ?

Celtics need some speed also. Need a quick guard that can get to the rim.

This is a big one. 

When this game was on the line in the final minutes and both teams were struggling to make shots, Maxxey's ability to get to the basket for easy layups was a difference maker.  He used his brain and did EXACTLY what the game needed while all of our guys kept blindly thowing up bricks and praying that one would go in. 

Tatum is one of the only guys on this roster who can get to the basket almost at will when he needs to.  Brown SHOLULD be able to, but didn't do it nearly as often as he should have in this series.

We get a speedy PG ... odds are we get a defensive liability. A slender often smallish guard who can't switch on defense.

I agree we need another guard but I would like to see another combo guard to switch back to the 3 guard backcourt with D-White, PP and the 3rd guard. Like we had with Jrue. An extra ball-handler and ball mover to help the Jays with ball movement.

We have White, Brown, Tatum - three exceptional (and among the most versile) perimeter defenders in the league.   If Queta could find a way to stay out of foul trouble then that's an elite four man defensive squad.  I think that could be effective enough to hide the flaws of a weak perimeter defender.

But at the end fo the day I don't think it necessarily has to be a slashing guard.  We just need SOMEONE who can get us consistent, easy points inside 10 feet when we need it.  Whether that's a perimeter slasher, good post player or an elite rim running P&R finisher - we need someone thaat can put pressure on the interior to draw defenses away from our shooters.

We have guys that can get those shots, but they choose dribbling or step back 3's.


Adding another won't change unless coaching changes.

[celticinorlando]

They might just run it back to avoid the tax and then gear up for 2027-28. By then they would have three young first round picks that should be much better.

Then in 2027 you try to attract a big name or move on from JB.

[Who]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Oh god no.

I can agree with most of it but not that part. You need another big man that can play defense. Now if you want to keep Vucevic and add that guy in place of Garza, then fine. They CAN NOT roll it back with just Queta/Vucevic/Garza again. Even if it's not Giannis, find someone else.

If we can get a big man who plays good defense, I am happy to move on from Vucevic.

If we cannot get that big man, I want to keep Vooch.

We will probably keep Vuc for a much lower number. But he's going to be a fringe player. And the players that fit your criteria "big man who plays good defense" isn't going to come cheap, which we need them to be if we're going to stay below the tax. That's why most of us say we want "a big who can play defense" or "a big who will make a difference" or "a big who is better than Vuc or Q" because it's hard to actually name one 

Here's a list of bigs and their current contracts:

(click to enlarge)


Half of these probably aren't even available and the ones that are, that are in our price range, are going to be flawed. So we have to pick what they're good at and live with what they are bad at. Again, unless we are willing to part with something that would cause one of these other teams that has a dominant big that we want to consider a trade. Maybe Derick Lively? Daniel Gafford? He seems to have worn out his welcome in Dallas, might we entice them with Hauser and Walsh? Clint Capela?

Just like with Vooch. Good scoring, good passing, good rebounding, bad defense. Accept the good. Live with the bad.

He will also look better on defense after a full season here in Boston than he did in this short cameo. Vooch is a bad defender but L Garza is a horrendous defender and he improved considerably on the defensive once he knew the system. So too with Vooch.

[Who]

No for me.

I hate watching Giannis play. He has such an ugly style of play. I don't want to have watch that all time. This is like when we got Kyrie. That sucked ... until Kyrie left and C's basketball was enjoyable again.

I don't want Giannis.

Then what do you do? Because I am tired of watching Brown and Tatum play the take turn, chuck from 3 offense. The roster cannot be the same next season. Just can't.

Run it back.

This group will be better next year. More experience for Queta and the young wings (Hugo, J Walsh, Baylor). Tatum a full off-season and a full season to integrate into the team. Vucevic a full season to get acclimated. This group will be much better next year without any changes. Keep it together.

Much better for a team that just choked a 3-1 lead is?

You can't run this back amd expect better from a coach who has more playoffs underachieving moments than not...by a wide margin.

Title contender.

They are not far away.

[slightly biased bias fan]

If the Celtics can trade for Giannis, it would not just be a Brown swap. The Celtics would need to give up multiple first round picks and perhaps even give up role players.

After a Giannis trade, the Celtics would be older and with less depth.

The Celtics should have done a full rebuild last season. It was the perfect scenario. A generational draft and the first two draft spots were teams that wanted to contend.

Nico Harrison would have traded Cooper Flagg for Jayson Tatum. If he did, Nico would probably still have his job. The Spurs love Jaylen Brown and would have traded the Dylan Harper pick for Brown.

A full rebuild for the 2025-26 season would have given the Celtics a great chance at a high lottery pick in another stacked draft.

[ozgod]

I was dead set against this before, but now I'm actually open to thinking about it. I still think it makes our window smaller and we would have to give up a lot more than Jaylen, because Giannis is a top 5 player in the league which Jaylen is not. But Giannis would give us more flexibility defensively at the cost of not being a stretch threat at all.

I do worry about Giannis's health though.

[ozgod]

They might just run it back to avoid the tax and then gear up for 2027-28. By then they would have three young first round picks that should be much better.

Then in 2027 you try to attract a big name or move on from JB.

I'm almost certain they will run it back next season and keep under the tax to reset it for 2027. I've posted this a number of times but these are the players (circled) that will be due for extension in 2027 (that cost $13m right now, and that @Who says will cost at least $50m pre-tax, I think closer to $30m but it's a lot more than what we're paying now - all depends on what Pritchard's market will be).

(click to enlarge)

(click to enlarge)


So if everything else is equal we will be going over the tax in 2027, and probably by at least $17m, maybe $37m. Post tax without repeater rate that will be around 325% so $58m-$120m in tax, with repeater rate it would be 525% or $90m-$190m.

So not resetting the repeater rate would cost us $40-$50m just because we have to extend those four players. (Luxury tax is one of the hardest things to calculate exactly because it's a progressive tax rate as well as an exponentially escalating one for repeaters but these numbers should be right for order or magnitude). So I'm 99.9% certain Brad isn't going to go over the luxury tax if the team isn't a serious contender and still has flaws. I think he (and Joe, assuming he isn't fired) will want to see consistency and improvement in shooting from the young guys - Hugo, Baylor, Harper, Walsh - as well as to see if Q and maybe Garza continue to make leaps. Because by 2027 tough decisions have to be made on extensions.

Now we have Vuc's $21m coming off the books (he was a $30m cap hold until he re-signs with us or someone else) and without him we would be at $187m, which is $13m below the tax line and $21m below the first apron. And we have the Simons TPE which is $27m. So those are the substantial things Brad can manipulate - he can re-sign Vuc for a lower number and then use some of that Simons TPE to get a big, a ball handler, or both, knowing that if he wants to stay under the tax all 3 have to be no more than $13m. Then we should have our non taxpayer MLE as well (I think $15m). But if we use all of it we get hardcapped at the first apron which I'm sure Brad won't want to do, especially since he wants to be under the luxury tax.

Of course we could ship out some of the forum pinatas too (like Jaylen  ). It just needs to all be under $200m which I think the luxury tax line will be next season.

[Who]

Now we have Vuc's $21m coming off the books (he was a $30m cap hold until he re-signs with us or someone else) and without him we would be at $187m, which is $13m below the tax line and $21m below the first apron. And we have the Simons TPE which is $27m. So those are the substantial things Brad can manipulate - he can re-sign Vuc for a lower number and then use some of that Simons TPE to get a big, a ball handler, or both, knowing that if he wants to stay under the tax all 3 have to be no more than $13m. Then we should have our non taxpayer MLE as well (I think $15m). But if we use all of it we get hardcapped at the first apron which I'm sure Brad won't want to do, especially since he wants to be under the luxury tax.

Of course we could ship out some of the forum pinatas too (like Jaylen  ). It just needs to all be under $200m which I think the luxury tax line will be next season.

I wonder if they could trade Sam Hauser ($10.85mil) and try to bring A Simons back. Keep Vooch at a lower number. It would be a tight squeeze. Allow Scheierman, J Walsh, Hugo to replace Hauser as the backup wing / forward.

G: Pritchard, A Simons
G: D White, Scheierman
F: Jaylen, J Walsh
F: Tatum, Hugo
C: Queta, Vucevic

It doesn't look like there is any other moveable salary other than Hauser. The rest are the core pieces of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and the bargain contract of Pritchard. Hauser looks to only viable candidate to move to free up more cash to spend.

I am assuming both Vucevic and A Simons are looking at MLE type money in FA. Oooh, starting salary for the MLE is now $14mil. Moving Hauser would leave only $24mil to spend. Tight. Not good.