Frontcourt Is Going To Be An Issue This Postseason

[Moranis]

I have no idea if Kuminga or Hield would make a difference at all, but that is an easy what if since they were traded straight up for KP at the deadline.  Kuminga would have at least added some decent size from a younger player.  And Hield while old can still hit a shot.

It's not so easy, as we couldn't have made that trade because it added salary.

by about 3 million, which there are ways to shed (even if it is just rerouting Hield somewhere else). 

I brought it up more to show there were options out there to get younger and better.  Kuminga was one example.  There were other guys actually moved that would have helped Boston. 

[Roy H.]

I have no idea if Kuminga or Hield would make a difference at all, but that is an easy what if since they were traded straight up for KP at the deadline.  Kuminga would have at least added some decent size from a younger player.  And Hield while old can still hit a shot.

It's not so easy, as we couldn't have made that trade because it added salary.

by about 3 million, which there are ways to shed (even if it is just rerouting Hield somewhere else). 

I brought it up more to show there were options out there to get younger and better.  Kuminga was one example.  There were other guys actually moved that would have helped Boston.

Except your various plans involve the Celtics carrying salary significantly above the second apron into (and after) the trade deadline. 

[Vermont Green]

I think the way you would have to break this down to stay under the 2nd apron is assume that Holiday is traded in a salary dump deal instead of Porzingis but then somehow mimic the ATL-GSW trade by sending Porzingis to GSW.  In that scenario, we don't have Simons or Vucevic, but we have Kuminga and Hield.  I am not checking the numbers but I believe this could have us below the 2nd apron depending on what else we send out to make room for Hield.

So there you go.  Not sure the team is any better.

[Moranis]

I have no idea if Kuminga or Hield would make a difference at all, but that is an easy what if since they were traded straight up for KP at the deadline.  Kuminga would have at least added some decent size from a younger player.  And Hield while old can still hit a shot.

It's not so easy, as we couldn't have made that trade because it added salary.

by about 3 million, which there are ways to shed (even if it is just rerouting Hield somewhere else). 

I brought it up more to show there were options out there to get younger and better.  Kuminga was one example.  There were other guys actually moved that would have helped Boston.

Except your various plans involve the Celtics carrying salary significantly above the second apron into (and after) the trade deadline.

Yeah, but that is sort of the point.  Heck Boston could have just kept Mann and the 22nd pick instead of dumping them to the Nets.  Mann would be a nice piece off the bench right now with his shooting from the wing position.

I totally get why Boston made all the moves it made for financial reasons, but there is no question the team could be better had some of those financial moves not been made.  And that is the issue, especially if Boston flames out early or loses a very close series at some point where a bit more talent might have been the difference.  If Boston wins the title, they got the best of both worlds or if they make the Finals and then get smoked, maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but anything else does sort of become a what if in my view. 

[Celtics2021]

I have no idea if Kuminga or Hield would make a difference at all, but that is an easy what if since they were traded straight up for KP at the deadline.  Kuminga would have at least added some decent size from a younger player.  And Hield while old can still hit a shot.

It's not so easy, as we couldn't have made that trade because it added salary.

by about 3 million, which there are ways to shed (even if it is just rerouting Hield somewhere else). 

I brought it up more to show there were options out there to get younger and better.  Kuminga was one example.  There were other guys actually moved that would have helped Boston.

Except your various plans involve the Celtics carrying salary significantly above the second apron into (and after) the trade deadline.

Yeah, but that is sort of the point.  Heck Boston could have just kept Mann and the 22nd pick instead of dumping them to the Nets.  Mann would be a nice piece off the bench right now with his shooting from the wing position.

I totally get why Boston made all the moves it made for financial reasons, but there is no question the team could be better had some of those financial moves not been made.  And that is the issue, especially if Boston flames out early or loses a very close series at some point where a bit more talent might have been the difference.  If Boston wins the title, they got the best of both worlds or if they make the Finals and then get smoked, maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but anything else does sort of become a what if in my view.

Terrance Mann shot worse from 3 than all our bench wings this year, turns the ball over more, and plays worse defense (his defense isn?t bad, but it is not as good as Walsh, Hugo, or Scheierman).  He would not have made the team any better, and would have barely played.  Maybe he would have beaten out Ron Harper Jr. for minutes, but we are talking the 12th man in the rotation.  Maybe he would have helped at times in the regular season, but the regular season was perfectly successful without him.  He would not be getting any more minutes than Hugo is in the postseason.

There was a reason draft compensation was attached to him.  He provides 9th-11th man value at 50% more than we pay Sam Hauser.

[Roy H.]

I have no idea if Kuminga or Hield would make a difference at all, but that is an easy what if since they were traded straight up for KP at the deadline.  Kuminga would have at least added some decent size from a younger player.  And Hield while old can still hit a shot.

It's not so easy, as we couldn't have made that trade because it added salary.

by about 3 million, which there are ways to shed (even if it is just rerouting Hield somewhere else). 

I brought it up more to show there were options out there to get younger and better.  Kuminga was one example.  There were other guys actually moved that would have helped Boston.

Except your various plans involve the Celtics carrying salary significantly above the second apron into (and after) the trade deadline.

Yeah, but that is sort of the point.  Heck Boston could have just kept Mann and the 22nd pick instead of dumping them to the Nets.  Mann would be a nice piece off the bench right now with his shooting from the wing position.

I totally get why Boston made all the moves it made for financial reasons, but there is no question the team could be better had some of those financial moves not been made.  And that is the issue, especially if Boston flames out early or loses a very close series at some point where a bit more talent might have been the difference.  If Boston wins the title, they got the best of both worlds or if they make the Finals and then get smoked, maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but anything else does sort of become a what if in my view.

I don't think that adding Mann (and his $16 million salary going forward) would have been a positive difference maker.  I'm not even sure he'd be getting playoff minutes.

[dannyboy35]

I was all for the Vooch for Simons deal and I wouldn?t take it back . I don?t think there would be enough shots for Simons. I don?t think he?s selfish . I just think he needs a certain volume to feel right.
   I didn?t expect a better player than Vooch . I WAS hoping his weakness could be somehow hidden / protected a bit more or he?d move just a little better . Not a knock on him . He is who he is . I was just curious ( when I don?t understand the cap well) if there was a player out there that people think of next year that may be affordable that makes us a little bit better of a team to take on OKC.
   We are already one of the best teams in the NBA. It?s just it turns into a 1 on 1 contest in the playoffs due to all the off ball holding preventing player movement.
   That benefits guys like Shai ( who is already mvp ) and Brunson ( who?s team really shouldn?t have a legit shot be this Celtics squad if reffed like the regular season .

Look at the bright side, we can dump if we want at the end of year if he does not work out. 

I think he has made some timely shots, and gave us good fouls.   I think he is still assimilating to some degree.  He has always been lumbering and has issues with sliding on D, but he is a wall down low.

   I thought he would be solid positioning wide down low but Embiid just got layup after layup going right through him. I didn?t see anything resembling a wall . This is what shocked me. Is Al Horford?s leg strength that much better than Vooch?s? Does he skip leg days?

[jambr380]

I was all for the Vooch for Simons deal and I wouldn?t take it back . I don?t think there would be enough shots for Simons. I don?t think he?s selfish . I just think he needs a certain volume to feel right.
   I didn?t expect a better player than Vooch . I WAS hoping his weakness could be somehow hidden / protected a bit more or he?d move just a little better . Not a knock on him . He is who he is . I was just curious ( when I don?t understand the cap well) if there was a player out there that people think of next year that may be affordable that makes us a little bit better of a team to take on OKC.
   We are already one of the best teams in the NBA. It?s just it turns into a 1 on 1 contest in the playoffs due to all the off ball holding preventing player movement.
   That benefits guys like Shai ( who is already mvp ) and Brunson ( who?s team really shouldn?t have a legit shot be this Celtics squad if reffed like the regular season .

Look at the bright side, we can dump if we want at the end of year if he does not work out. 

I think he has made some timely shots, and gave us good fouls.   I think he is still assimilating to some degree.  He has always been lumbering and has issues with sliding on D, but he is a wall down low.

   I thought he would be solid positioning wide down low but Embiid just got layup after layup going right through him. I didn?t see anything resembling a wall . This is what shocked me. Is Al Horford?s leg strength that much better than Vooch?s? Does he skip leg days?

For the Celtics to make any noise this offseason, Vucevic has to be much better than he has been. I have no idea what people are seeing that is making them think he has been good. His defense has been absolutely atrocious. Getting bullied down low like he is Isaiah Thomas and unable to even consider getting out on the perimeter to contest anything. I'm not sure I've seen a slower NBA player. I would have thought that the one thing he could do was bang down low.

I know he's been an all-star and that he's not as bad as he's shown in these playoffs, but this is when it matters. He needs to perform because his ability to spread the floor is worse than Garza and he hustles far less.

[Roy H.]

I was all for the Vooch for Simons deal and I wouldn?t take it back . I don?t think there would be enough shots for Simons. I don?t think he?s selfish . I just think he needs a certain volume to feel right.
   I didn?t expect a better player than Vooch . I WAS hoping his weakness could be somehow hidden / protected a bit more or he?d move just a little better . Not a knock on him . He is who he is . I was just curious ( when I don?t understand the cap well) if there was a player out there that people think of next year that may be affordable that makes us a little bit better of a team to take on OKC.
   We are already one of the best teams in the NBA. It?s just it turns into a 1 on 1 contest in the playoffs due to all the off ball holding preventing player movement.
   That benefits guys like Shai ( who is already mvp ) and Brunson ( who?s team really shouldn?t have a legit shot be this Celtics squad if reffed like the regular season .

Look at the bright side, we can dump if we want at the end of year if he does not work out. 

I think he has made some timely shots, and gave us good fouls.   I think he is still assimilating to some degree.  He has always been lumbering and has issues with sliding on D, but he is a wall down low.

   I thought he would be solid positioning wide down low but Embiid just got layup after layup going right through him. I didn?t see anything resembling a wall . This is what shocked me. Is Al Horford?s leg strength that much better than Vooch?s? Does he skip leg days?

For the Celtics to make any noise this offseason, Vucevic has to be much better than he has been. I have no idea what people are seeing that is making them think he has been good. His defense has been absolutely atrocious. Getting bullied down low like he is Isaiah Thomas and unable to even consider getting out on the perimeter to contest anything. I'm not sure I've seen a slower NBA player. I would have thought that the one thing he could do was bang down low.

I know he's been an all-star and that he's not as bad as he's shown in these playoffs, but this is when it matters. He needs to perform because his ability to spread the floor is worse than Garza and he hustles far less.

Most of that is fair.  Vuc's defense has been poor in every aspect. 

That said, all of our centers have been unable to play defense this series.  Queta and Garza have been fouling machines through five games.  Queta is at 11.0 fouls per 100 possessions; Garza is at 12.0!  That is exceptionally bad.  I assume that some of Vuc's lack of resistance on defense is that he knows he has to stay on the floor, so he has to be less physical. 

The other issue is that Vuc hasn't used properly on offense.  It's a waste of his interior scoring and rebounding skills to have him play so much on the perimeter.  We did the same thing with Horford, changing him from a guy that you could run the offense through and that had a very high assist rate into somebody who almost purely stood around the perimeter.  This is a guy who averaged 18.5 points on 59% 2PT shooting in Chicago this season, and we've got him taking 2/3 of his shots from outside.

[jambr380]

I was all for the Vooch for Simons deal and I wouldn?t take it back . I don?t think there would be enough shots for Simons. I don?t think he?s selfish . I just think he needs a certain volume to feel right.
   I didn?t expect a better player than Vooch . I WAS hoping his weakness could be somehow hidden / protected a bit more or he?d move just a little better . Not a knock on him . He is who he is . I was just curious ( when I don?t understand the cap well) if there was a player out there that people think of next year that may be affordable that makes us a little bit better of a team to take on OKC.
   We are already one of the best teams in the NBA. It?s just it turns into a 1 on 1 contest in the playoffs due to all the off ball holding preventing player movement.
   That benefits guys like Shai ( who is already mvp ) and Brunson ( who?s team really shouldn?t have a legit shot be this Celtics squad if reffed like the regular season .

Look at the bright side, we can dump if we want at the end of year if he does not work out. 

I think he has made some timely shots, and gave us good fouls.   I think he is still assimilating to some degree.  He has always been lumbering and has issues with sliding on D, but he is a wall down low.

   I thought he would be solid positioning wide down low but Embiid just got layup after layup going right through him. I didn?t see anything resembling a wall . This is what shocked me. Is Al Horford?s leg strength that much better than Vooch?s? Does he skip leg days?

For the Celtics to make any noise this offseason, Vucevic has to be much better than he has been. I have no idea what people are seeing that is making them think he has been good. His defense has been absolutely atrocious. Getting bullied down low like he is Isaiah Thomas and unable to even consider getting out on the perimeter to contest anything. I'm not sure I've seen a slower NBA player. I would have thought that the one thing he could do was bang down low.

I know he's been an all-star and that he's not as bad as he's shown in these playoffs, but this is when it matters. He needs to perform because his ability to spread the floor is worse than Garza and he hustles far less.

Most of that is fair.  Vuc's defense has been poor in every aspect. 

That said, all of our centers have been unable to play defense this series.  Queta and Garza have been fouling machines through five games.  Queta is at 11.0 fouls per 100 possessions; Garza is at 12.0!  That is exceptionally bad.  I assume that some of Vuc's lack of resistance on defense is that he knows he has to stay on the floor, so he has to be less physical. 

The other issue is that Vuc hasn't used properly on offense.  It's a waste of his interior scoring and rebounding skills to have him play so much on the perimeter.  We did the same thing with Horford, changing him from a guy that you could run the offense through and that had a very high assist rate into somebody who almost purely stood around the perimeter.  This is a guy who averaged 18.5 points on 59% 2PT shooting in Chicago this season, and we've got him taking 2/3 of his shots from outside.

I'm definitely not arguing that anybody else has been better. Queta proven to be at least a mid-tier NBA starting Center this season. From an expectations standpoint, he is right there with Derrick White as most disappointing this series. This is what people were worried he would look like going into the year.

But Vucevic is a veteran who should be valuable in Joe's offense. I agree that he's a talented post scorer, but I'd imagine Joe doesn't want him down there since it clogs the lanes for Tatum and Brown to operate. Embiid and Drummond having to at least consider the 3 point threat should open things up.

A couple of those Queta fouls last game were jawdroppingly stupid and Vucevic just folded like a tissue down low. Hopefully both of those guys can get their act together. I don't think anybody thought our bigs rotation would be an advantage, but it has to be better than this.