Author Topic: Giannis  (Read 1340 times)

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Re: Giannis
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 11:28:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 11:38:18 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

Just stating something doesn't make it so.

Derrick White has good value in the league. Downplaying that demonstrates bias.

Main problem is there isn't another core piece. A White-Hollins-Hauser-Portis-Turner core is not bad, but there's no intrigue or upside. It seems like a typical small market roster to me, but not one that would draw good crowds.

The other part of this, however, is Giannis himself. Superstars have forced their way to teams in the past.

Re: Giannis
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 11:53:13 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

If it was White alone, sure.

But Tatum is best at the PF spot, so if Giannis came to Boston he'd probably play center.  That makes Queta mostly redundant, so probably can include him.  Plus I think he has earned a starting spot wherever he may be.

Given the ludicrously cheap deal I think Queta would be a highly valued asset, so him and white combined could potentially be very enticing. 

Then you include Hauser (shooters always have value) and throw in Vucevic's expiring $22M contract and a pick or two.

I feel like this could be quite beneficial for the Bucks both short term and long term.

A core of White-Rollins-Kuzma-Turner-Queta should make for a solid  playoff roster.  The White/Turner/Queta trio is a very strong defensive foundation.  Rollins and Queta were two of the most improve players in the league this year, so there is some upside there too.

If they can find a way to add an all-star calibre player next year via free agency or trade then I think could be a very competitive team with a very decent payroll.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:04:29 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Giannis
« Reply #18 on: Today at 12:14:33 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #19 on: Today at 01:13:09 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:

To be fair Paul George's shadow, Embiid with one leg (which is pretty much is permanent state at this point) and Tyrese Maxey are nowhere near comparable to Tatum, Brown and Giannis.

Tatum and Brown alone have carried the Celtics better than those three guys combined have carried the Sixers.  I would take the worst guy of that Celtics trio (and at this point it's hard to even decide who that is) the best player on that Philly roster every time. 

Jaylen Brown this year is a legitimate All-NBA 1st team and MVP candidate, which suggests he's ballpark a top 5 player in the NBA this year.  Tatum and Giannis have both been perennial All-NBA 1st teamers and MVP candidates. 

What we are proposing here is three guys who are all arguably top 5 players / MVP candidates, all in their prime, all playing on the same team. 

I've seen two players of that calibre on a team together numerous times (Kobe and Shaq, KD and Steph, Russell and Havlicek, Lebron and Wade, Kareem and Magic, etc) but THREE?  I don't know if that's ever happened in the history of the league. 
« Last Edit: Today at 01:22:04 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Giannis
« Reply #20 on: Today at 03:49:34 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:

To be fair Paul George's shadow, Embiid with one leg (which is pretty much is permanent state at this point) and Tyrese Maxey are nowhere near comparable to Tatum, Brown and Giannis.

Tatum and Brown alone have carried the Celtics better than those three guys combined have carried the Sixers.  I would take the worst guy of that Celtics trio (and at this point it's hard to even decide who that is) the best player on that Philly roster every time. 

Jaylen Brown this year is a legitimate All-NBA 1st team and MVP candidate, which suggests he's ballpark a top 5 player in the NBA this year.  Tatum and Giannis have both been perennial All-NBA 1st teamers and MVP candidates. 

What we are proposing here is three guys who are all arguably top 5 players / MVP candidates, all in their prime, all playing on the same team. 

I've seen two players of that calibre on a team together numerous times (Kobe and Shaq, KD and Steph, Russell and Havlicek, Lebron and Wade, Kareem and Magic, etc) but THREE?  I don't know if that's ever happened in the history of the league.

Yes, but they have had a solid supporting cast of young, unheralded players that have helped them - players the Sixers don't have, because they have $145m of the $154m salary cap tied up in 3 players. That's $38m on the other 11 players, of which VJ is $11m, Grimes is $8m and Oubre $8m. It's not easy to find undervalued players who are outperforming their contracts, which Brad has. It's a large reason why our unheralded group has excelled this season.

I get the appeal of signing the big names, but this reminds me of the issue Real Madrid faced back in the Galacticos era where they signed a lot of expensive, flashy players like Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham, and neglected to build a supporting cast around them. I feel that doing this would significantly hamstring our ability to adjust our team financially, as Roy mentioned. I've talked about salary cap issues ad nauseum here so I won't do it again but any trade that hard-caps us at any apron, let alone the first one, might be a nonstarter for Brad.

Brad has shown that one of the reasons he's been very successful as a GM is that he astutely manages the team's balance sheet as well as finds the right assets that Joe can synthesize together...not just picking a bunch of big names like what the Suns and Clippers did. The pieces have to fit together, especially with two players who are already fairly ball dominant in Brown and Tatum. White fits in perfectly with them because he's a connector, he doesn't need high usage, he's not great as a first option (another reason I think Milwaukee might baulk at having him as a headliner to a trade unless they plan to flip him to another contender who needs that final connecting piece to link their team together). That's probably one of the reasons why there's never been three high usage players all together in one team - because either all of them have to sacrifice, or one of them has to significantly sacrifice, like Ray Allen did with the Cs, or Chris Bosh with Miami. There's only one ball  :police:

I did have a look at your proposed trade, obviously it's hard to see if it's realistic because if we're assuming an offseason trade we don't know if Vuc will even be with the Cs by then and if so what renegotiated contract he will be on as he is an expiring this season, same with Thanasis. As for Trent Jr he has a player option next season which we won't know if he will take up or not. We will be in a better position to revisit it in the summer.

But my general feeling is, looking at all Brad's moves, he values flexibility above everything else, and he understands the importance of selling high and buying low (as in drafting, finding and signing players who are significantly overperforming their contracts, like Q, Garza, Hugo and Walsh). Those are the low cost, outperform type players you want to hang on to and then trade them when they sign their next deal when their deal more accurately reflects their value. So I would be surprised if he chases Giannis - not to mention the fact that the Bucks will have a lot of better offers than the best non-Jay included deal we can come up with. They won't listen to any non-Jay deal we try to push on to them.

My 2c  :police:
« Last Edit: Today at 05:31:00 AM by ozgod »
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #21 on: Today at 10:07:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

If it was White alone, sure.

But Tatum is best at the PF spot, so if Giannis came to Boston he'd probably play center.  That makes Queta mostly redundant, so probably can include him.  Plus I think he has earned a starting spot wherever he may be.

Given the ludicrously cheap deal I think Queta would be a highly valued asset, so him and white combined could potentially be very enticing. 

Then you include Hauser (shooters always have value) and throw in Vucevic's expiring $22M contract and a pick or two.

I feel like this could be quite beneficial for the Bucks both short term and long term.

A core of White-Rollins-Kuzma-Turner-Queta should make for a solid  playoff roster.  The White/Turner/Queta trio is a very strong defensive foundation.  Rollins and Queta were two of the most improve players in the league this year, so there is some upside there too.

If they can find a way to add an all-star calibre player next year via free agency or trade then I think could be a very competitive team with a very decent payroll.
Unless Rollins becomes a legit 1st Team all nba type player, that team isnt even a playoff team.  They aren't  better than any of the 10 teams ahead of them this year and that doesn't include Indiana with Haliburton back next year. 

The Celtics just don't have the pieces to acquire Giannis.  It isnt happening. 
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #22 on: Today at 10:20:07 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

If it was White alone, sure.

But Tatum is best at the PF spot, so if Giannis came to Boston he'd probably play center.  That makes Queta mostly redundant, so probably can include him.  Plus I think he has earned a starting spot wherever he may be.

Given the ludicrously cheap deal I think Queta would be a highly valued asset, so him and white combined could potentially be very enticing. 

Then you include Hauser (shooters always have value) and throw in Vucevic's expiring $22M contract and a pick or two.

I feel like this could be quite beneficial for the Bucks both short term and long term.

A core of White-Rollins-Kuzma-Turner-Queta should make for a solid  playoff roster.  The White/Turner/Queta trio is a very strong defensive foundation.  Rollins and Queta were two of the most improve players in the league this year, so there is some upside there too.

If they can find a way to add an all-star calibre player next year via free agency or trade then I think could be a very competitive team with a very decent payroll.
Unless Rollins becomes a legit 1st Team all nba type player, that team isnt even a playoff team.  They aren't  better than any of the 10 teams ahead of them this year and that doesn't include Indiana with Haliburton back next year. 

The Celtics just don't have the pieces to acquire Giannis.  It isnt happening.

You keep saying that. And every time you do, I will just that yes they do have the pieces to acquire Giannis.

If the Bucks jumped up in the lottery are were able to acquire one of the top 4 guys, or even if they got Acuff, Wagler, or Flemmings, that team starts to get more interesting. I'm not saying they are contenders, but they would be a small market team with solid playoff veterans (Turner, Portis, White) and some young talent (Hugo, 26 draft pick, Rollins).

Re: Giannis
« Reply #23 on: Today at 10:21:02 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Then you include Hauser (shooters always have value) and throw in Vucevic's expiring $22M contract and a pick or two.

We aren't allowed to trade Vuc's contract because it will expire before the new league year.


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Re: Giannis
« Reply #24 on: Today at 10:49:06 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

The Ringer released an article today that had Derrick White on the All-NBA third team this year and on the all-defensive first team.

https://www.theringer.com/2026/04/09/nba/nba-team-awards-all-nba-defensive-rookie-ballot-2026

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think this demonstrates that the many people would view White as a really good piece to include in a trade, and not dismiss him as a "tertiary player" that is "too old and not good enough."

Re: Giannis
« Reply #25 on: Today at 11:02:31 AM »

Online Roy H.

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

The Ringer released an article today that had Derrick White on the All-NBA third team this year and on the all-defensive first team.

https://www.theringer.com/2026/04/09/nba/nba-team-awards-all-nba-defensive-rookie-ballot-2026

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think this demonstrates that the many people would view White as a really good piece to include in a trade, and not dismiss him as a "tertiary player" that is "too old and not good enough."

I don't think White would be the impediment to a Giannis deal.  If Milwaukee didn't want him, they could flip him to at least a dozen teams that would.

And, the "Boston doesn't have the pieces" argument isn't really true.  I mean, if we offered Milwaukee White + Pritchard + Queta + Hugo or Scheierman + two #1s, that would easily be better than anything they were offered last year.

But, we'd lose a ton of depth that we wouldn't be able to replace easily, and the team's flexibility would be severely compromised. 


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Re: Giannis
« Reply #26 on: Today at 11:32:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

The Ringer released an article today that had Derrick White on the All-NBA third team this year and on the all-defensive first team.

https://www.theringer.com/2026/04/09/nba/nba-team-awards-all-nba-defensive-rookie-ballot-2026

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think this demonstrates that the many people would view White as a really good piece to include in a trade, and not dismiss him as a "tertiary player" that is "too old and not good enough."
White is a very good player, but his best value is on a contender that has 2 scorers in place already.  He isnt a 1 or 2 scorer and never had been (even this year PP scored more than White).  He is also older than Giannis and his efficiency has gotten worse each of the last 3 years. It seems pretty likely he is only going to get worse, the real question is does it remain gradual or does he hit a cliff and if so, when?  For all those reasons, he isn't the type of player that is a centerpiece in that sort of trade.  The Bucks would simply be better off taking Herro and Ware from the Heat over any trade from Boston that didn't include a Jay.  But I think the Bucks will get better offers this summer than they got at the deadline.  And I wouldn't trade a Jay for Giannis at this point, so that is why I think the door is closed I need Giannis in Boston. 
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #27 on: Today at 11:51:56 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

The Ringer released an article today that had Derrick White on the All-NBA third team this year and on the all-defensive first team.

https://www.theringer.com/2026/04/09/nba/nba-team-awards-all-nba-defensive-rookie-ballot-2026

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think this demonstrates that the many people would view White as a really good piece to include in a trade, and not dismiss him as a "tertiary player" that is "too old and not good enough."
White is a very good player, but his best value is on a contender that has 2 scorers in place already.  He isnt a 1 or 2 scorer and never had been (even this year PP scored more than White).  He is also older than Giannis and his efficiency has gotten worse each of the last 3 years. It seems pretty likely he is only going to get worse, the real question is does it remain gradual or does he hit a cliff and if so, when?  For all those reasons, he isn't the type of player that is a centerpiece in that sort of trade.  The Bucks would simply be better off taking Herro and Ware from the Heat over any trade from Boston that didn't include a Jay.  But I think the Bucks will get better offers this summer than they got at the deadline.  And I wouldn't trade a Jay for Giannis at this point, so that is why I think the door is closed I need Giannis in Boston.

I'm not arguing that there won't be better offers out there. There may be, although I'm not a huge fan of Herro and Ware.

I'm arguing that you are being far too dismissive about Celtic players, which is an ongoing theme from you.

If Giannis requests that he is traded to the Cs, the Bucks don't have to comply, but there would be a lot of pressure given his commitment to loyalty over the last 4 years.

Plus, I also think Stevens is one of the most creative GMs in the league. If there were a way to get enough value for him, and if they wanted him, he would do it.

Lots of "ifs" in this conversation, but dismissing it out of hand like you are doesn't seem like the right way to have the conversation.

Re: Giannis
« Reply #28 on: Today at 11:59:47 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The Bucks would simply be better off taking Herro and Ware from the Heat over any trade from Boston that didn't include a Jay.
Silly talk.

White + Hauser + Pritch + Queta >>>>>>>>>> Herro + Ware

... and that's not including draft picks and/or Scheierman/Hugo.

I wouldn't do it, but you're just doubling down on your initial statement about how one of the Jays would be required.


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Re: Giannis
« Reply #29 on: Today at 12:15:06 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

The Ringer released an article today that had Derrick White on the All-NBA third team this year and on the all-defensive first team.

https://www.theringer.com/2026/04/09/nba/nba-team-awards-all-nba-defensive-rookie-ballot-2026

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think this demonstrates that the many people would view White as a really good piece to include in a trade, and not dismiss him as a "tertiary player" that is "too old and not good enough."
White is a very good player, but his best value is on a contender that has 2 scorers in place already.  He isnt a 1 or 2 scorer and never had been (even this year PP scored more than White).  He is also older than Giannis and his efficiency has gotten worse each of the last 3 years. It seems pretty likely he is only going to get worse, the real question is does it remain gradual or does he hit a cliff and if so, when?  For all those reasons, he isn't the type of player that is a centerpiece in that sort of trade.  The Bucks would simply be better off taking Herro and Ware from the Heat over any trade from Boston that didn't include a Jay.  But I think the Bucks will get better offers this summer than they got at the deadline.  And I wouldn't trade a Jay for Giannis at this point, so that is why I think the door is closed I need Giannis in Boston.

Are you saying that the Bucks could never be involved in a trade where a Celtics 2024 Championship starting guard was traded to a team looking to build for the future, because that team wouldn't value them as highly as a contender?

Maybe they could trade him to a contender in exchange for picks/another movable player...

That said, I don't see the fit if Brown/Tatum/Gianni's. You'd be pushing Brown toouch more to the perimeter when Gianni's was healthy
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