Author Topic: Giannis  (Read 860 times)

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Re: Giannis
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 11:28:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 11:38:18 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

Just stating something doesn't make it so.

Derrick White has good value in the league. Downplaying that demonstrates bias.

Main problem is there isn't another core piece. A White-Hollins-Hauser-Portis-Turner core is not bad, but there's no intrigue or upside. It seems like a typical small market roster to me, but not one that would draw good crowds.

The other part of this, however, is Giannis himself. Superstars have forced their way to teams in the past.

Re: Giannis
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 11:53:13 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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White is a very good tertiary player and he is older than Giannis.  He doesn't have much value to a team like the Bucks.  He is too old and not good enough.  He cannot be the main part of a Giannis trade.  Just not enough. 

Boston cannot acquire Giannis without trading Tatum or Brown, so Giannis will not be coming to Boston.

If it was White alone, sure.

But Tatum is best at the PF spot, so if Giannis came to Boston he'd probably play center.  That makes Queta mostly redundant, so probably can include him.  Plus I think he has earned a starting spot wherever he may be.

Given the ludicrously cheap deal I think Queta would be a highly valued asset, so him and white combined could potentially be very enticing. 

Then you include Hauser (shooters always have value) and throw in Vucevic's expiring $22M contract and a pick or two.

I feel like this could be quite beneficial for the Bucks both short term and long term.

A core of White-Rollins-Kuzma-Turner-Queta should make for a solid  playoff roster.  The White/Turner/Queta trio is a very strong defensive foundation.  Rollins and Queta were two of the most improve players in the league this year, so there is some upside there too.

If they can find a way to add an all-star calibre player next year via free agency or trade then I think could be a very competitive team with a very decent payroll.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:04:29 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Giannis
« Reply #18 on: Today at 12:14:33 AM »

Online ozgod

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:
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Re: Giannis
« Reply #19 on: Today at 01:13:09 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:

To be fair Paul George's shadow, Embiid with one leg (which is pretty much is permanent state at this point) and Tyrese Maxey are nowhere near comparable to Tatum, Brown and Giannis.

Tatum and Brown alone have carried the Celtics better than those three guys combined have carried the Sixers.  I would take the worst guy of that Celtics trio (and at this point it's hard to even decide who that is) the best player on that Philly roster every time. 

Jaylen Brown this year is a legitimate All-NBA 1st team and MVP candidate, which suggests he's ballpark a top 5 player in the NBA this year.  Tatum and Giannis have both been perennial All-NBA 1st teamers and MVP candidates. 

What we are proposing here is three guys who are all arguably top 5 players / MVP candidates, all in their prime, all playing on the same team. 

I've seen two players of that calibre on a team together numerous times (Kobe and Shaq, KD and Steph, Russell and Havlicek, Lebron and Wade, Kareem and Magic, etc) but THREE?  I don't know if that's ever happened in the history of the league. 
« Last Edit: Today at 01:22:04 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Giannis
« Reply #20 on: Today at 03:49:34 AM »

Online ozgod

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Things to keep in mind:

* We'd be hard-capped at the first apron if we took on more salary than we sent out;

* Salaries must "match" within 125% + $250k

So, we'd have to send out at least $46,565,252.80 based upon next year's salaries. 

Even if we sent White + Hauser + Hugo, that's not enough.

It would take White + Hauser + three of Hugo / Walsh / Scheirmann / Harper / Williams / Shulga (or two of those guys plus our signed #1 pick)

So, let's say the Bucks take our offer of White + Hauser + Hugo + Shulga + signed #27 + future #1

That would leave us at:

Queta / Williams
Giannis / Garza
Tatum / Walsh
Brown / Scheiermann
Pritchard / Harper

We would be hard-capped at the first apron.  We'd basically have a maximum of $7m to $8m to fill out the roster (a minimum of four spots).  Without doing the specific math, I think that would allow us to sign a 4 minimum contracts, so long as at least one is a rookie.  It would be very tight.

It doesn't really seem practical to me.

You can be pretty impractical if you have a trio of Brown-Tatum-Giannis.

Until one of them gets injured?see how that?s working out for Philly  :angel:

To be fair Paul George's shadow, Embiid with one leg (which is pretty much is permanent state at this point) and Tyrese Maxey are nowhere near comparable to Tatum, Brown and Giannis.

Tatum and Brown alone have carried the Celtics better than those three guys combined have carried the Sixers.  I would take the worst guy of that Celtics trio (and at this point it's hard to even decide who that is) the best player on that Philly roster every time. 

Jaylen Brown this year is a legitimate All-NBA 1st team and MVP candidate, which suggests he's ballpark a top 5 player in the NBA this year.  Tatum and Giannis have both been perennial All-NBA 1st teamers and MVP candidates. 

What we are proposing here is three guys who are all arguably top 5 players / MVP candidates, all in their prime, all playing on the same team. 

I've seen two players of that calibre on a team together numerous times (Kobe and Shaq, KD and Steph, Russell and Havlicek, Lebron and Wade, Kareem and Magic, etc) but THREE?  I don't know if that's ever happened in the history of the league.

Yes, but they have had a solid supporting cast of young, unheralded players that have helped them - players the Sixers don't have, because they have $145m of the $154m salary cap tied up in 3 players. That's $38m on the other 11 players, of which VJ is $11m, Grimes is $8m and Oubre $8m. It's not easy to find undervalued players who are outperforming their contracts, which Brad has. It's a large reason why our unheralded group has excelled this season.

I get the appeal of signing the big names, but this reminds me of the issue Real Madrid faced back in the Galacticos era where they signed a lot of expensive, flashy players like Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham, and neglected to build a supporting cast around them. I feel that doing this would significantly hamstring our ability to adjust our team financially, as Roy mentioned. I've talked about salary cap issues ad nauseum here so I won't do it again but any trade that hard-caps us at any apron, let alone the first one, might be a nonstarter for Brad.

Brad has shown that one of the reasons he's been very successful as a GM is that he astutely manages the team's balance sheet as well as finds the right assets that Joe can synthesize together...not just picking a bunch of big names like what the Suns and Clippers did. The pieces have to fit together, especially with two players who are already fairly ball dominant in Brown and Tatum. White fits in perfectly with them because he's a connector, he doesn't need high usage, he's not great as a first option (another reason I think Milwaukee might baulk at having him as a headliner to a trade unless they plan to flip him to another contender who needs that final connecting piece to link their team together). That's probably one of the reasons why there's never been three high usage players all together in one team - because either all of them have to sacrifice, or one of them has to significantly sacrifice, like Ray Allen did with the Cs, or Chris Bosh with Miami. There's only one ball  :police:

I did have a look at your proposed trade, obviously it's hard to see if it's realistic because if we're assuming an offseason trade we don't know if Vuc will even be with the Cs by then and if so what renegotiated contract he will be on as he is an expiring this season, same with Thanasis. As for Trent Jr he has a player option next season which we won't know if he will take up or not. We will be in a better position to revisit it in the summer.

But my general feeling is, looking at all Brad's moves, he values flexibility above everything else, and he understands the importance of selling high and buying low (as in drafting, finding and signing players who are significantly overperforming their contracts, like Q, Garza, Hugo and Walsh). Those are the low cost, outperform type players you want to hang on to and then trade them when they sign their next deal when their deal more accurately reflects their value. So I would be surprised if he chases Giannis - not to mention the fact that the Bucks will have a lot of better offers than the best non-Jay included deal we can come up with. They won't listen to any non-Jay deal we try to push on to them.

My 2c  :police:
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