Author Topic: Expansion/Re-Alignment  (Read 27460 times)

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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2026, 08:06:55 AM »

Online Donoghus

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Not that I particularly care one way or another on the matter, "petty" could also be used to describe the Lakers organization seemingly disregarding the Minneapolis history until the early 2000s when it all of a sudden became convenient.  Not to mention not retiring Mikan's number until 2022.  Nearly 20 years after his death. 

At the end of the day, I don't really care but it's telling where the organization's head was at when it seemingly ignored the Minnesota days until this century.


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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2026, 11:00:25 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We all know the only reason LA claimed them was to be closer to us.   I think titles should be counted in the City they were won in.

The Minneapolis Lakers won what 5 titles, The LA lakers  12, everyone of ours was won here in Boston.

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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2026, 11:46:04 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Settlement: To move, Bennett reached a $75 million settlement with the city of Seattle in 2008 to terminate the KeyArena lease early, which allowed the team to move in exchange for leaving the team's name, colors, and history for a potential future team.

I think the above explains a lot.  It was a side deal with the city.  The new owners got out of a lease and were otherwise allowed to move the franchise, but they had to leave the brand behind.
I'm aware.  It also happened when the Browns became the Ravens.  I was more commenting on the Lakers needing to leave the banners in Minnesota.  I just don't find that to be a strong argument.  It comes off as petty since the Lakers are right behind the Celtics in total titles.

The problem is they didn't recognize them until years after they left.

The taxpayers fund where many of these teams play so it does make a case that the titles should stay with the city. The team is tied to that city and the history was made there, supported by the people there. If the Celtics  moved to another state, it would be weird seeing it play on the history of a place it cut ties with.

I do however get that they also belong to the franchise and I can see why that argument makes sense. I'm not 100% either way, but I do lean toward the titles staying.

Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2026, 12:26:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Settlement: To move, Bennett reached a $75 million settlement with the city of Seattle in 2008 to terminate the KeyArena lease early, which allowed the team to move in exchange for leaving the team's name, colors, and history for a potential future team.

I think the above explains a lot.  It was a side deal with the city.  The new owners got out of a lease and were otherwise allowed to move the franchise, but they had to leave the brand behind.
I'm aware.  It also happened when the Browns became the Ravens.  I was more commenting on the Lakers needing to leave the banners in Minnesota.  I just don't find that to be a strong argument.  It comes off as petty since the Lakers are right behind the Celtics in total titles.

The problem is they didn't recognize them until years after they left.

The taxpayers fund where many of these teams play so it does make a case that the titles should stay with the city. The team is tied to that city and the history was made there, supported by the people there. If the Celtics  moved to another state, it would be weird seeing it play on the history of a place it cut ties with.

I do however get that they also belong to the franchise and I can see why that argument makes sense. I'm not 100% either way, but I do lean toward the titles staying.
So only Foxboro gets credit for the Patriots titles? Or because they are New England and not Boston they get to keep them?  What about the New York Giants? NY doesnt actually get credit for the Eli titles since they were won in New Jersey.  When the Browns move to Brook Park, OH or the Bears move out of Chicago to the suburbs, do they leave their history behind?

I think it is a weird argument.  The franchise is the franchise.  The location doesn't matter. 
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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2026, 12:44:10 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Settlement: To move, Bennett reached a $75 million settlement with the city of Seattle in 2008 to terminate the KeyArena lease early, which allowed the team to move in exchange for leaving the team's name, colors, and history for a potential future team.

I think the above explains a lot.  It was a side deal with the city.  The new owners got out of a lease and were otherwise allowed to move the franchise, but they had to leave the brand behind.
I'm aware.  It also happened when the Browns became the Ravens.  I was more commenting on the Lakers needing to leave the banners in Minnesota.  I just don't find that to be a strong argument.  It comes off as petty since the Lakers are right behind the Celtics in total titles.

The problem is they didn't recognize them until years after they left.

The taxpayers fund where many of these teams play so it does make a case that the titles should stay with the city. The team is tied to that city and the history was made there, supported by the people there. If the Celtics  moved to another state, it would be weird seeing it play on the history of a place it cut ties with.

I do however get that they also belong to the franchise and I can see why that argument makes sense. I'm not 100% either way, but I do lean toward the titles staying.
So only Foxboro gets credit for the Patriots titles? Or because they are New England and not Boston they get to keep them?  What about the New York Giants? NY doesnt actually get credit for the Eli titles since they were won in New Jersey.  When the Browns move to Brook Park, OH or the Bears move out of Chicago to the suburbs, do they leave their history behind?

I think it is a weird argument.  The franchise is the franchise.  The location doesn't matter.

I think there's a difference to moving a few miles away than an entirely different market. Giants playing in NJ as the markets and fanbases are still in that area. Seattle is noting like  Oaklahoma. LA isn't Minneapolis.


I'm not saying 100% either way, but I think the case for the titles staying with the city/area they were won have a stronger case than some owner buying a team he had no connection with and moving it to a market that didn't have a connection with the team either.

Take my vikings for instance. If they ever won(LOL I know) and then the owners moved the team a few years later, would it be fair to the fans who endured decades of a title drought a claim to a title even if they had a new team move there?


Maybe the best way is a middle ground. The franchise keeps the titles when it moves, but if a new org starts up in their absence, they give them back.


Or, no one gets to keep them and the slate is clean for both the franchise that moved and the one that started up later. Maybe the titles just stay in the record books.


Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2026, 09:02:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Modell owned the Browns for 35 years before he moved the team to Baltimore.  He in fact owned the team when they won their last NFL title in 1964 (which was the last title the city had till the Cavs).  He wasn't some new owner. Irsay owned the Baltimore Colts for a decade before moving them to Indianapolis.  Davis moved the Raiders multiple times.  Franchises are simply businesses.  Expensive ones that have fans, but still just a business.  When corporations move their headquarters, they just move. It isn't really different with sports teams.
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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #66 on: Today at 01:17:55 PM »

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According to sources, the league is seeking a franchise fee of $8 billion to $10 billion for each of the new teams. That would mean a payout of more than $500 million to every current NBA owner?and ample incentive to vote yes, even after accounting for a 32-way split of annual revenues. But if the bidding were to top out at, say, $5 billion per expansion team, that might turn more owners against the initiative entirely, one source suggested. One more twist, per sources, albeit a speculative one: If another city with NBA aspirations were to emerge with a lucrative offer?say, $10 billion or more?it?s conceivable the league could turn away from Seattle or Vegas. Because, again, this is ultimately all driven by money.

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I just don't get this.  The Celtics were sold in two parts, with the first part being valued at a $6.1 billion valuation, and the subsequent deal to be completed in 2028 at a valuation in excess of $7 billion. 

The Lakers sold for $10 billion.  I believe this includes their stadium.

Why would owners buy brand new franchises for $10 billion, when they could have had one of the crown jewel franchises in all of sports for that amount, or significantly less?


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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #67 on: Today at 01:21:06 PM »

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Personally I think New Orleans should be the team to move East, not Minnesota!  :)
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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #68 on: Today at 01:23:20 PM »

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According to sources, the league is seeking a franchise fee of $8 billion to $10 billion for each of the new teams. That would mean a payout of more than $500 million to every current NBA owner?and ample incentive to vote yes, even after accounting for a 32-way split of annual revenues. But if the bidding were to top out at, say, $5 billion per expansion team, that might turn more owners against the initiative entirely, one source suggested. One more twist, per sources, albeit a speculative one: If another city with NBA aspirations were to emerge with a lucrative offer?say, $10 billion or more?it?s conceivable the league could turn away from Seattle or Vegas. Because, again, this is ultimately all driven by money.

The Ringer

I just don't get this.  The Celtics were sold in two parts, with the first part being valued at a $6.1 billion valuation, and the subsequent deal to be completed in 2028 at a valuation in excess of $7 billion. 

The Lakers sold for $10 billion.  I believe this includes their stadium.

Why would owners buy brand new franchises for $10 billion, when they could have had one of the crown jewel franchises in all of sports for that amount, or significantly less?

I remember reading an explanation of this a while back - it has to do with the new TV deal. The per team shares of that TV money is huge. They would be losing money per team if they allowed an expansion team in at $6bn.

What was it. They get an equal share of the $6bn divided by 30 teams so $200mil each. They would end up losing money on that deal due to the TV shares per team being greater than that. They were better off having no expansion and just keeping the TV money among themselves. So the expansion fees had to go sky high.

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At issue is giving two new teams a share of the lucrative new 11-year, $77 billion media rights deals the league reached in 2024 with NBC/Peacock, Amazon and ESPN/ABC. Those revenues are divided equally among the current 30 teams. Adding two expansion teams would dilute each team?s share. Some governors had previously expressed reluctance to include two more teams that would get in on the action, but there is a history of the NBA delaying new teams? full share of TV money.

When the ABA and NBA merged in 1976, the four ABA teams absorbed into the NBA ? San Antonio, Indiana, Denver and New York (now Brooklyn) ? did not receive any national TV money during their first three seasons in the NBA.

11yrs $77bn. So $7bn a year. The 30 team share of that is $233mil a year.

A 32 team share would be $219mil. Multiplied over 11yrs, a difference of $154mil. I don't know if my math is too simple but it looks like they still would have made money at $6bn evaluation ($200mil minus $154mil).

Anyway, that was the reason for the high evaluation. Huge TV money coming in. They didn't want to share it. They would only accept a huge expansion fee to make it financially worthwhile.

All teams evaluations will be skyrocketing after this new TV deal. Those BOS and LAL sales were made too soon. They could have gotten a lot more now. 
« Last Edit: Today at 01:29:53 PM by Who »

Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #69 on: Today at 01:28:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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According to sources, the league is seeking a franchise fee of $8 billion to $10 billion for each of the new teams. That would mean a payout of more than $500 million to every current NBA owner?and ample incentive to vote yes, even after accounting for a 32-way split of annual revenues. But if the bidding were to top out at, say, $5 billion per expansion team, that might turn more owners against the initiative entirely, one source suggested. One more twist, per sources, albeit a speculative one: If another city with NBA aspirations were to emerge with a lucrative offer?say, $10 billion or more?it?s conceivable the league could turn away from Seattle or Vegas. Because, again, this is ultimately all driven by money.

The Ringer

I just don't get this.  The Celtics were sold in two parts, with the first part being valued at a $6.1 billion valuation, and the subsequent deal to be completed in 2028 at a valuation in excess of $7 billion. 

The Lakers sold for $10 billion.  I believe this includes their stadium.

Why would owners buy brand new franchises for $10 billion, when they could have had one of the crown jewel franchises in all of sports for that amount, or significantly less?

I remember reading an explanation of this a while back - it has to do with the new TV deal. The per team shares of that TV money is huge. They would be losing money per team if they allowed an expansion team in at $6bn.

What was it. They get an equal share of the $6bn divided by 30 teams so $200mil each. They would end up losing money on that deal due to the TV shares per team being greater than that. They were better off having no expansion and just keeping the TV money among themselves. So the expansion fees had to go sky high.

I get it from the perspective of current owners.  They're trying to leverage as much money as they can, and it has to be worth their while.

I'm just thinking more from a prospective buyer's point of view.  If you've got $8 billion to $10 billion burning a hole in your pocket, why buy a team in Seattle?  Why not buy the Lakers or Celtics?


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Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #70 on: Today at 01:41:29 PM »

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According to sources, the league is seeking a franchise fee of $8 billion to $10 billion for each of the new teams. That would mean a payout of more than $500 million to every current NBA owner?and ample incentive to vote yes, even after accounting for a 32-way split of annual revenues. But if the bidding were to top out at, say, $5 billion per expansion team, that might turn more owners against the initiative entirely, one source suggested. One more twist, per sources, albeit a speculative one: If another city with NBA aspirations were to emerge with a lucrative offer?say, $10 billion or more?it?s conceivable the league could turn away from Seattle or Vegas. Because, again, this is ultimately all driven by money.

The Ringer

I just don't get this.  The Celtics were sold in two parts, with the first part being valued at a $6.1 billion valuation, and the subsequent deal to be completed in 2028 at a valuation in excess of $7 billion. 

The Lakers sold for $10 billion.  I believe this includes their stadium.

Why would owners buy brand new franchises for $10 billion, when they could have had one of the crown jewel franchises in all of sports for that amount, or significantly less?

I remember reading an explanation of this a while back - it has to do with the new TV deal. The per team shares of that TV money is huge. They would be losing money per team if they allowed an expansion team in at $6bn.

What was it. They get an equal share of the $6bn divided by 30 teams so $200mil each. They would end up losing money on that deal due to the TV shares per team being greater than that. They were better off having no expansion and just keeping the TV money among themselves. So the expansion fees had to go sky high.

I get it from the perspective of current owners.  They're trying to leverage as much money as they can, and it has to be worth their while.

I'm just thinking more from a prospective buyer's point of view.  If you've got $8 billion to $10 billion burning a hole in your pocket, why buy a team in Seattle?  Why not buy the Lakers or Celtics?

I think with this new expansion fee and new TV deal all the valuations of the existing teams will skyrocket as well. Lakers and Celtics will jump up in value too.

My understanding is that it is difficult to buy an NBA team. That there is this shortlist of people who have asked to buy a team. A long shortlist. Teams don't come up on the market often. I don't think it is as simple as one buyer going to an existing owner and making an offer to buy it. The NBA league office plays favourites with who they want to buy teams. So you have to be liked by the league office / commissioner. You are doing a lot of politicking in the background to try and say you will be a good owner / representative of the league in order to be accepted.

Not just everyone on that shortlist gets to make an offer. And if you are not on the shortlist, you don't get to make an offer. You have to wait your turn. So if you are far down on the shortlist or if you haven't politicked enough, you won't even get to make an offer. There is all sorts of weird things going on there. I don't understand it. Anyway, it is not a straightforward offer / accept / buy situation.

And the NBA is never short of buyers. They have that shortlist of people. It is more the lack of people wanting to sell teams. They see the raising TV money and team evaluations. They don't want to sell.

Oh, the league also looks down on buyers who are only interested in buying a team in a certain city. They only want Team X. Not Team Y. So you are in the queue and you are expected to buy whatever team comes on the market next. And if you are not willing to do that, you will be dropped down the shortlist. They want that commitment before hand - to buy whatever team is next. Not just a team in LA or NYC but a Minnesota or Charlotte. 

It is weird system. I don't understand it.
 

In hindsight, a lot of people missed the ball on buying the Celtics / Lakers because those prices were bargains now compared to what these expansion franchises have to pay. And missed the ball even worse on buying other lesser teams for much lower money.

I imagine the Celtics / Lakers would have to be worth $12-15 billion now given those expansion fees. So those new buyers have already seen a huge increase in the value of their teams.

Re: Expansion/Re-Alignment
« Reply #71 on: Today at 01:52:45 PM »

Online Donoghus

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According to sources, the league is seeking a franchise fee of $8 billion to $10 billion for each of the new teams. That would mean a payout of more than $500 million to every current NBA owner?and ample incentive to vote yes, even after accounting for a 32-way split of annual revenues. But if the bidding were to top out at, say, $5 billion per expansion team, that might turn more owners against the initiative entirely, one source suggested. One more twist, per sources, albeit a speculative one: If another city with NBA aspirations were to emerge with a lucrative offer?say, $10 billion or more?it?s conceivable the league could turn away from Seattle or Vegas. Because, again, this is ultimately all driven by money.

The Ringer

I just don't get this.  The Celtics were sold in two parts, with the first part being valued at a $6.1 billion valuation, and the subsequent deal to be completed in 2028 at a valuation in excess of $7 billion. 

The Lakers sold for $10 billion.  I believe this includes their stadium.

Why would owners buy brand new franchises for $10 billion, when they could have had one of the crown jewel franchises in all of sports for that amount, or significantly less?

I remember reading an explanation of this a while back - it has to do with the new TV deal. The per team shares of that TV money is huge. They would be losing money per team if they allowed an expansion team in at $6bn.

What was it. They get an equal share of the $6bn divided by 30 teams so $200mil each. They would end up losing money on that deal due to the TV shares per team being greater than that. They were better off having no expansion and just keeping the TV money among themselves. So the expansion fees had to go sky high.

I get it from the perspective of current owners.  They're trying to leverage as much money as they can, and it has to be worth their while.

I'm just thinking more from a prospective buyer's point of view.  If you've got $8 billion to $10 billion burning a hole in your pocket, why buy a team in Seattle?  Why not buy the Lakers or Celtics?

We're talking the uber wealthy here.  The elite of the 1%.  Oftentimes, its a status thing.  A toy.  These people are so on another level, its ridiculous.  Buy a franchise, you're in a very exclusive fraternity.  Price be [dang]ed.


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