Expansion/Re-Alignment

[SHAQATTACK]

I?m for smaller nba , less teams , less games ,  teams keeping better players more stars on each team.  NBA is headed toward nascar ,  to many tracks , too much fiddling with this and that . Less Bronny , more quality talent on each team , less teams . 

[Redz]

I?m for smaller nba , less teams , less games ,  teams keeping better players more stars on each team.  NBA is headed toward nascar ,  to many tracks , too much fiddling with this and that . Less Bronny , more quality talent on each team , less teams .

The only way that ever happens is if they start losing money.

[Moranis]

We barely got enough talent in these teams, and we want to expand...

Most pundits have been raving for years about how deep and talented the league is. If they are going to water it down a little, nows the time I guess.

and most pundits are idiots so that would explain that

I agree withe pundits part, but I honestly believe the level of talent is at an all time high. You can't even compete in the modern NBA without a minimum of 2 superstars and a great supporting cast. That wasn't the case 15 years ago.

15 years ago you needed more than just 2 superstars to win it all (our second big 3 era) but 30 years ago you only needed 2 (the MJ/Pippen run and even just one could get you a title with the Hakeem titles).

All time high for talent was the 80's.  As talented as the Sixers were in the 80's, they only won 1 title and team as loaded as the Bucks couldn't even get to the finals.

The teams in the 80's also just weren't as good - strictly in the sense that the game wasn't nearly as 'solved' as it is now, so the strategies hadn't caught up.

Talent parity will always exist, but most teams are much closer in terms of 'the best way' to play basketball than they were 40+ years ago, for better or worse.

the 80's also had a lot of objectively bad teams. I mean 2 franchises in the West made the NBA Finals in the 80's, the Lakers with 8 and the Rockets the other 2.  In the East, only 3 franchises made the Finals, the Sixers 3 of the first 4 (with Boston's 1), then the Celtics ran off the next 4, before the Pistons got the last 2.  So for an entire 10 year period only 5 franchises made the NBA Finals.  How talented could the league have been if it was dominated by just 5 teams? I mean look at the 84 Knicks that won 47 games.  Yes, they had Bernard King in his prime, but the rest of that roster is hot garbage.  Bill Cartwright was probably their 2nd best player and if not him last legs Truck Robinson.  Louis Orr started 20 games.  I had legitimately never heard of him before doing this exercise.  That was a 47 win team that made the 2nd round and actually pushed the Celtics because the C's couldn't guard Bernard King, but that team just wasn't good.   

this has got to be the lamest argument ever.  take a look at the teams getting to the finals and you have your answer as to why no one else was getting there.  Lakers were absolutely loaded.  it's a fluke that Houston got there twice.   Celtics and Sixer teams were loaded as well.  Milwaukee, another loaded team, couldn't get past them. 

was every team great, no.  same thing can be said for every year.  There was a lot less watering down of the talent and the 3-point gimmick that's overtaken the game and made it a farce today was hardly a factor in the game in those days and was a much better product to watch.

Calling Milwaukee loaded is the problem with your analysis.  Milwaukee was a fine team led by Moncrief who eventually made the HOF, but that was like 30 years after he retired.  Johnson, Bridgeman, and old past his prime Lanier were solid.  Pressey joined a bit later and for half a season they had 22 mpg Archibald.  That team is pretty similar to the Clippers this year before the trades except Kawhi and Harden are both better than Moncrief though the Bucks had more depth.  Maybe Phoenix is a better comparison as Booker is a similar level of player to Moncrief (different strengths but similar comparative skill level).

The 80's had 2 of the greatest teams ever assembled (83 Sixers, 86 Celtics) and the Lakers dynasty, but the league had no depth and lacked balance.  There were a lot of just bad teams and because there weren't many teams so many of the bad teams made the playoffs.  The late 80's the talent picked up some, but then the league expanded a lot in the 90's and watered down the league a lot.  The talent has increased significantly since the expansion in the 90's ended.  Far more talent today than any prior generation.  Not even close.

[Donoghus]

In the history of the NBA, nine teams have had 7 or more consecutive seasons of 50 or more wins.  7 of those teams won titles in their respective stretches.  The two that did not were the 1988-89 to '94-95 Suns and the '80-81 to '86-87 Bucks.

80s Bucks were a [dang] good team.  They just came around at an unfortunate time.

[slamtheking]

We barely got enough talent in these teams, and we want to expand...

Most pundits have been raving for years about how deep and talented the league is. If they are going to water it down a little, nows the time I guess.

and most pundits are idiots so that would explain that

I agree withe pundits part, but I honestly believe the level of talent is at an all time high. You can't even compete in the modern NBA without a minimum of 2 superstars and a great supporting cast. That wasn't the case 15 years ago.

15 years ago you needed more than just 2 superstars to win it all (our second big 3 era) but 30 years ago you only needed 2 (the MJ/Pippen run and even just one could get you a title with the Hakeem titles).

All time high for talent was the 80's.  As talented as the Sixers were in the 80's, they only won 1 title and team as loaded as the Bucks couldn't even get to the finals.

The teams in the 80's also just weren't as good - strictly in the sense that the game wasn't nearly as 'solved' as it is now, so the strategies hadn't caught up.

Talent parity will always exist, but most teams are much closer in terms of 'the best way' to play basketball than they were 40+ years ago, for better or worse.

the 80's also had a lot of objectively bad teams. I mean 2 franchises in the West made the NBA Finals in the 80's, the Lakers with 8 and the Rockets the other 2.  In the East, only 3 franchises made the Finals, the Sixers 3 of the first 4 (with Boston's 1), then the Celtics ran off the next 4, before the Pistons got the last 2.  So for an entire 10 year period only 5 franchises made the NBA Finals.  How talented could the league have been if it was dominated by just 5 teams? I mean look at the 84 Knicks that won 47 games.  Yes, they had Bernard King in his prime, but the rest of that roster is hot garbage.  Bill Cartwright was probably their 2nd best player and if not him last legs Truck Robinson.  Louis Orr started 20 games.  I had legitimately never heard of him before doing this exercise.  That was a 47 win team that made the 2nd round and actually pushed the Celtics because the C's couldn't guard Bernard King, but that team just wasn't good.   

this has got to be the lamest argument ever.  take a look at the teams getting to the finals and you have your answer as to why no one else was getting there.  Lakers were absolutely loaded.  it's a fluke that Houston got there twice.   Celtics and Sixer teams were loaded as well.  Milwaukee, another loaded team, couldn't get past them. 

was every team great, no.  same thing can be said for every year.  There was a lot less watering down of the talent and the 3-point gimmick that's overtaken the game and made it a farce today was hardly a factor in the game in those days and was a much better product to watch.

Calling Milwaukee loaded is the problem with your analysis.  Milwaukee was a fine team led by Moncrief who eventually made the HOF, but that was like 30 years after he retired.  Johnson, Bridgeman, and old past his prime Lanier were solid.  Pressey joined a bit later and for half a season they had 22 mpg Archibald.  That team is pretty similar to the Clippers this year before the trades except Kawhi and Harden are both better than Moncrief though the Bucks had more depth.  Maybe Phoenix is a better comparison as Booker is a similar level of player to Moncrief (different strengths but similar comparative skill level).

The 80's had 2 of the greatest teams ever assembled (83 Sixers, 86 Celtics) and the Lakers dynasty, but the league had no depth and lacked balance.  There were a lot of just bad teams and because there weren't many teams so many of the bad teams made the playoffs.  The late 80's the talent picked up some, but then the league expanded a lot in the 90's and watered down the league a lot.  The talent has increased significantly since the expansion in the 90's ended.  Far more talent today than any prior generation.  Not even close.

leave it to you to forget Terry Cummings on those Bucks teams.  Knock the bucks all you want (which is obviously what you want) but Cummings puts them on a level of a top team.  Worthy and Wilkens get the hype from that draft but Cummings was every bit as good

[Moranis]

We barely got enough talent in these teams, and we want to expand...

Most pundits have been raving for years about how deep and talented the league is. If they are going to water it down a little, nows the time I guess.

and most pundits are idiots so that would explain that

I agree withe pundits part, but I honestly believe the level of talent is at an all time high. You can't even compete in the modern NBA without a minimum of 2 superstars and a great supporting cast. That wasn't the case 15 years ago.

15 years ago you needed more than just 2 superstars to win it all (our second big 3 era) but 30 years ago you only needed 2 (the MJ/Pippen run and even just one could get you a title with the Hakeem titles).

All time high for talent was the 80's.  As talented as the Sixers were in the 80's, they only won 1 title and team as loaded as the Bucks couldn't even get to the finals.

The teams in the 80's also just weren't as good - strictly in the sense that the game wasn't nearly as 'solved' as it is now, so the strategies hadn't caught up.

Talent parity will always exist, but most teams are much closer in terms of 'the best way' to play basketball than they were 40+ years ago, for better or worse.

the 80's also had a lot of objectively bad teams. I mean 2 franchises in the West made the NBA Finals in the 80's, the Lakers with 8 and the Rockets the other 2.  In the East, only 3 franchises made the Finals, the Sixers 3 of the first 4 (with Boston's 1), then the Celtics ran off the next 4, before the Pistons got the last 2.  So for an entire 10 year period only 5 franchises made the NBA Finals.  How talented could the league have been if it was dominated by just 5 teams? I mean look at the 84 Knicks that won 47 games.  Yes, they had Bernard King in his prime, but the rest of that roster is hot garbage.  Bill Cartwright was probably their 2nd best player and if not him last legs Truck Robinson.  Louis Orr started 20 games.  I had legitimately never heard of him before doing this exercise.  That was a 47 win team that made the 2nd round and actually pushed the Celtics because the C's couldn't guard Bernard King, but that team just wasn't good.   

this has got to be the lamest argument ever.  take a look at the teams getting to the finals and you have your answer as to why no one else was getting there.  Lakers were absolutely loaded.  it's a fluke that Houston got there twice.   Celtics and Sixer teams were loaded as well.  Milwaukee, another loaded team, couldn't get past them. 

was every team great, no.  same thing can be said for every year.  There was a lot less watering down of the talent and the 3-point gimmick that's overtaken the game and made it a farce today was hardly a factor in the game in those days and was a much better product to watch.

Calling Milwaukee loaded is the problem with your analysis.  Milwaukee was a fine team led by Moncrief who eventually made the HOF, but that was like 30 years after he retired.  Johnson, Bridgeman, and old past his prime Lanier were solid.  Pressey joined a bit later and for half a season they had 22 mpg Archibald.  That team is pretty similar to the Clippers this year before the trades except Kawhi and Harden are both better than Moncrief though the Bucks had more depth.  Maybe Phoenix is a better comparison as Booker is a similar level of player to Moncrief (different strengths but similar comparative skill level).

The 80's had 2 of the greatest teams ever assembled (83 Sixers, 86 Celtics) and the Lakers dynasty, but the league had no depth and lacked balance.  There were a lot of just bad teams and because there weren't many teams so many of the bad teams made the playoffs.  The late 80's the talent picked up some, but then the league expanded a lot in the 90's and watered down the league a lot.  The talent has increased significantly since the expansion in the 90's ended.  Far more talent today than any prior generation.  Not even close.

leave it to you to forget Terry Cummings on those Bucks teams.  Knock the bucks all you want (which is obviously what you want) but Cummings puts them on a level of a top team.  Worthy and Wilkens get the hype from that draft but Cummings was every bit as good

Cummings wasn't on the Bucks team with Lanier, Bridgeman, or Johnson.  He was in fact acquired by the Bucks in a 6 player trade with Hodges and Pierce for Johnson, Bridgeman, and Catchings (Lanier and Timy were retired by then).  The 86 Bucks team that made the ECF was a weaker team than the 83 or 84 team.  The 84 team, I felt was the best one so that is the one I used.  Cummings was not as good as Worthy or Wilkens. He was an all star just 2 times in his career with a 2nd and 3rd team all nba.  Not a HOFer and didn't get hurt until his 11th season, so that wasn't the reason.