Brad understood the assignment

[Roy H.]

This season has been a best-case scenario for the Celts:

1.  They cleared over $300 million in salary + tax commitments, plus will now (likely) receive a luxury tax distribution;

2.  They acquired a 17/9 veteran center who is a very good fit for Joe's offense;

3.  Jordan Walsh is a contributor, and Hugo Gonzalez looks like a future rotation fixture;

4.  We're contending, and there's a realistic chance of Tatum coming back;

5.  It only cost the team a net of three second rounders if I'm counting right.

It cost them a net of four. They gave up 2 in the Niang trade, trade the NOP for a DEN 2nd in the Vuc trade then traded that Den 2nd today.

That's a net of 3.  2 for Niang plus the NOP pick.  The Denver pick is 0 sum.

[celticinorlando]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

8 man playoff rotation of White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Queta with Pritchard, Vucevic, Walsh off the bench isn?t good enough?

There is zero scoring off the bench after PP. We have no idea what Queta, Walsh, Hugo or Garza will do in the playoffs and counting on those guys would be risky.

I have to think Vuc starts and he better be one of the closing 5.

[Vermont Green]

If this is a thread to judge Steven's trade deadline, I agree completely with the trade of Simons for Vucevic.  BOS needed a bench big more than it needed a bench undersized score first guard.  And Vucevic is actually better than a bench big, he is a legit starting level big.  I don't see any reason to criticize this trade or question the motives of ownership, just because the trade saved money too.  This is a good trade, in my opinion.

What I don't like about the trade is that even though it created a nice TPE (about $27M), it wasn't used and so now, it can't be used until next season.  If it is used next season, it hard caps BOS at the first apron.  That does not offer much flexibility to add to the team next season, beyond resigning players already on the team.  At a minimum, it means at best BOS can only use a small portion of this TPE, so it is essentially going to waste.

As to the transactions to sell off Boucher, Minott, and Tillman, I don't see this as about money really either.  BOS will need to fill the roster spots with something.  They may well end up back above the tax in any case.  The question is if they can improve on these players.  Amari Williams is probably not an improvement.  He has more ceiling, but he is not there right now.  Ron Harper (assuming he is elevated) may not be any worse than say Tillman, but that does not feel like an upgrade either.

Being below the first apron means BOS can sign any buy out to a min or better contract, no matter what that player made before.  I would like to see them sign a decent player if possible, even if it puts them over the tax.  They remain a "repeater" unless they stay under for two seasons in a row, and I don't see how they can do that and contend.

[celticinorlando]

Keith Smith thinks of the 2 rosters spots that have to be filled, one goes to Harper and one goes to a buyout player:

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
?
1h
The Celtics can't finish with two open roster spots. You can only drop below 14 players on standard contracts for up to 14 days at a time and 28 total days per season.

Boston will fill out their roster eventually. Look for Ron Harper Jr. to get a standard deal, then a veteran buyout addition.

[celticinorlando]

If this is a thread to judge Steven's trade deadline, I agree completely with the trade of Simons for Vucevic.  BOS needed a bench big more than it needed a bench undersized score first guard.  And Vucevic is actually better than a bench big, he is a legit starting level big.  I don't see any reason to criticize this trade or question the motives of ownership, just because the trade saved money too.  This is a good trade, in my opinion.

What I don't like about the trade is that even though it created a nice TPE (about $27M), it wasn't used and so now, it can't be used until next season.  If it is used next season, it hard caps BOS at the first apron.  That does not offer much flexibility to add to the team next season, beyond resigning players already on the team.  At a minimum, it means at best BOS can only use a small portion of this TPE, so it is essentially going to waste.

As to the transactions to sell off Boucher, Minott, and Tillman, I don't see this as about money really either.  BOS will need to fill the roster spots with something.  They may well end up back above the tax in any case.  The question is if they can improve on these players.  Amari Williams is probably not an improvement.  He has more ceiling, but he is not there right now.  Ron Harper (assuming he is elevated) may not be any worse than say Tillman, but that does not feel like an upgrade either.

Being below the first apron means BOS can sign any buy out to a min or better contract, no matter what that player made before.  I would like to see them sign a decent player if possible, even if it puts them over the tax.  They remain a "repeater" unless they stay under for two seasons in a row, and I don't see how they can do that and contend.

This is a good post.

[CFAN38]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

Playoffs are usually a 8-9 man rotation.

Starters

1 White
2 JB
3 Hauser
4 JT
5 Queta

6 PP
7 Vooch
8 Baylor
9 Hugo/Walsh

How many teams are bringing players better than PP and Vooch off the bench?

[Vermont Green]

If this is a thread to judge Steven's trade deadline, I agree completely with the trade of Simons for Vucevic.  BOS needed a bench big more than it needed a bench undersized score first guard.  And Vucevic is actually better than a bench big, he is a legit starting level big.  I don't see any reason to criticize this trade or question the motives of ownership, just because the trade saved money too.  This is a good trade, in my opinion.

What I don't like about the trade is that even though it created a nice TPE (about $27M), it wasn't used and so now, it can't be used until next season.  If it is used next season, it hard caps BOS at the first apron.  That does not offer much flexibility to add to the team next season, beyond resigning players already on the team.  At a minimum, it means at best BOS can only use a small portion of this TPE, so it is essentially going to waste.

As to the transactions to sell off Boucher, Minott, and Tillman, I don't see this as about money really either.  BOS will need to fill the roster spots with something.  They may well end up back above the tax in any case.  The question is if they can improve on these players.  Amari Williams is probably not an improvement.  He has more ceiling, but he is not there right now.  Ron Harper (assuming he is elevated) may not be any worse than say Tillman, but that does not feel like an upgrade either.

Being below the first apron means BOS can sign any buy out to a min or better contract, no matter what that player made before.  I would like to see them sign a decent player if possible, even if it puts them over the tax.  They remain a "repeater" unless they stay under for two seasons in a row, and I don't see how they can do that and contend.

This is a good post.

I thought so....

[celticinorlando]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

Playoffs are usually a 8-9 man rotation.

Starters

1 White
2 JB
3 Hauser
4 JT
5 Queta

6 PP
7 Vooch
8 Baylor
9 Hugo/Walsh

How many teams are bringing players better than PP and Vooch off the bench?

Queta starting over Vuc? I understand the concept but I am not sure they do that.

[Goldstar88]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

8 man playoff rotation of White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Queta with Pritchard, Vucevic, Walsh off the bench isn?t good enough?

There is zero scoring off the bench after PP. We have no idea what Queta, Walsh, Hugo or Garza will do in the playoffs and counting on those guys would be risky.

I have to think Vuc starts and he better be one of the closing 5.

Vuc would be better coming off the bench, IMO. They have enough scorers in the starting lineup with White, Hauser, Tatum and Brown. Vuc and Pritchard would carry the second unit.

[ozgod]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

8 man playoff rotation of White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Queta with Pritchard, Vucevic, Walsh off the bench isn?t good enough?

There is zero scoring off the bench after PP. We have no idea what Queta, Walsh, Hugo or Garza will do in the playoffs and counting on those guys would be risky.

I have to think Vuc starts and he better be one of the closing 5.

I wouldn?t be so quick to discard Queta just because he?s not a big name or because he?s on a vet min. Among players with 30+games and 20+mpg he is currently 5th in the league in net rating, behind the 4 OKC players Mitchell, SGA,Holmgren and Wallace, with a net rating of 12.2, ahead of Wemby,Derrick White and Jokic. He?s a huge contributor to their success this season because he plays his role perfectly.

For Joes one big lineups I would be surprised if Vucevic replaced Queta, though with Joe it?s always a horses for courses type selection based in matchups.

(Click to enlarge)

[tenn_smoothie]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

I see this is an overachieving year as opposed to a true contending year. Once they?re ready to contend that?s when they?ll open the pocketbook, go over the tax, over the aprons. Right now it?s about keeping the books clear heading into that time (probably 2027-28). Right now we have three guys in our rotation who are on vet mins and contributing. And hey, it?s so much better to keep the books clear and overachieve then keep the books clear in tank, which is what everybody wanted us to do at the start of the season.

100% right on target !!

All roster moves should be made towards serious title contention after Tatum returns. That should be our only priority.
As much as this season has been a "feel good" year, it's not going to produce another banner.

[ozgod]

If this is a thread to judge Steven's trade deadline, I agree completely with the trade of Simons for Vucevic.  BOS needed a bench big more than it needed a bench undersized score first guard.  And Vucevic is actually better than a bench big, he is a legit starting level big.  I don't see any reason to criticize this trade or question the motives of ownership, just because the trade saved money too.  This is a good trade, in my opinion.

What I don't like about the trade is that even though it created a nice TPE (about $27M), it wasn't used and so now, it can't be used until next season.  If it is used next season, it hard caps BOS at the first apron.  That does not offer much flexibility to add to the team next season, beyond resigning players already on the team.  At a minimum, it means at best BOS can only use a small portion of this TPE, so it is essentially going to waste.

As to the transactions to sell off Boucher, Minott, and Tillman, I don't see this as about money really either.  BOS will need to fill the roster spots with something.  They may well end up back above the tax in any case.  The question is if they can improve on these players.  Amari Williams is probably not an improvement.  He has more ceiling, but he is not there right now.  Ron Harper (assuming he is elevated) may not be any worse than say Tillman, but that does not feel like an upgrade either.

Being below the first apron means BOS can sign any buy out to a min or better contract, no matter what that player made before.  I would like to see them sign a decent player if possible, even if it puts them over the tax.  They remain a "repeater" unless they stay under for two seasons in a row, and I don't see how they can do that and contend.

I posted elsewhere our contract situations over the next five years from Spotrac. We still have a significant part of our rotation (PP, Hauser, Garza, Hugo, Walsh) on contracts that are 10 million or less next season. We have Hauser at 10 million, PP at 7 million, and the other three at 2.5 million. Plus, vuc is an expiring and probably will be extended at a lower number assuming he accepts it. My guess is that they will be frugal next season because you really need two seasons under the tax line to reset the luxury tax.  And 2027?28 will be the year that we will have to open the checkbooks for Garza, Hugo and Walsh and we will have to go over the tax and first apron then so I would imagine that that would be the year that they?re planning to spend big. Probably that year in the year after and may be the year after that. I think being hard capped at the first apron might suit them fine for financial purposes.

In this era of punitive roster building penalties for exceeding the aprons you have to pick the times you want to go over them?only when you?re confident you have THE team you want, otherwise you?re under the risk of being Phoenix and having to spend assets to extricate yourself from an inflexible situation.

(Click to enlarge)

[Neurotic Guy]

Still don't think this team has the bench to be considered a real threat even if Tatum comes back. Going to waste the open roster spots on Harper and Shugla and those 2 guys will never do anything to win playoff games.

Bench is a real mess right now.

Playoffs are usually a 8-9 man rotation.

Starters

1 White
2 JB
3 Hauser
4 JT
5 Queta

6 PP
7 Vooch
8 Baylor
9 Hugo/Walsh

How many teams are bringing players better than PP and Vooch off the bench?

This.   Celtics bench is better than good and the starting five looks playoffs solid to me.  This is a contending team in the East and probably a Finals loser if they get there.  But if you get there, you have a chance.

Sorry if I am not remembering correctly but a couple of the posters who are downplaying the C's roster, bench, playoff chances are posters who were predicting a 30 (ish) win season and were considering our roster to be terrible at the start of the year.  Great posters all, but a tendency toward pessimism.  The C's with a healthy Tatum absolutely are an East contender.  And what does the eye test tell us about Queta?  Looks like a valuable starting NBA center to me.  Keeping him in that role or having him back up Vuc is fine with me either way, but I think the scoring punch will be needed more from the bench.  I think when DW is back to his third option role, and Tatum and JB are occupying most of the attention of defenses, we will see the tremendous value of Derrick White.  And I think it's cleat that Pritchard is going to be an effective scorer whether he starts or is back to being the best sixth man in the NBA. 

The bench looks excellent to me.

   

[Alleyoopster]

I'm still smarting from the Simons trade. I get the need for a center and apron considerations.

And, I realize Anfernee was undersized. However, he brought a something special to the team. I'm sure Vucivic will be a good addition. Regardless, I would not have made that trade.

As for Minot, in the beginning of the season, he was one a better offensive players. Even better than the bench players they kept. Defensively, he held his own. It may be Brad is looking to bulk up the roster and these players did not fit the size requirements he was looking for. 

[Goldstar88]

I'm still smarting from the Simons trade. I get the need for a center and apron considerations.

And, I realize Anfernee was undersized. However, he brought a something special to the team. I'm sure Vucivic will be a good addition. Regardless, I would not have made that trade.

As for Minot, in the beginning of the season, he was one a better offensive players. Even better than the bench players they kept. Defensively, he held his own. It may be Brad is looking to bulk up the roster and these players did not fit the size requirements he was looking for.

Pritchard has already been moved to the bench, so Simons would be redundant. Too many small guards is trouble come playoff time.