Celtics (0-3) at Pelicans (0-2) Game #4 10/27/25

[Roy H.]

Very nice game.  The Pels are awful.

[Surferdad]

Missed most of it but is the center spot now settling into a split between Queta and Garza?

[slamtheking]

How about Q with 7 ofrebs and 4blcks.....reminds me of Rob.

but without the injury making him leave the game. 

[keevsnick]

Celtics had a DReb% of 77.6% tonight. The #1 team in the league last year was 73.4% for the season. So for one night at least they patched things up. Minot helped a lot on the glass.

The Celtics still didn't have a great night from three, only 34%. And D white still can't buy a bucket. But some improvements for sure.

[Silas]

Wonder what Hugo did or said....only guy who didn't get in the game, even for the last minute.

[Atzar]

Wonder what Hugo did or said....only guy who didn't get in the game, even for the last minute.

Minott didn't play against the Knicks.  I think Joe is just experimenting. 

[keevsnick]

Wonder what Hugo did or said....only guy who didn't get in the game, even for the last minute.

Minott didn't play against the Knicks.  I think Joe is just experimenting.

And Tillman didn't play at all vs Detroit, despite Garza being terrible in that game. Seems like Joe is cycling through DNP-CD's to try and fine minutes for different combo's each night.

[Muzzy66]

My biggest disappointment so far is that this is our 4th game of the season, and Jaylen Brown has only looked like the clear best player on the team in one of those four games.

If Tatum was out there on the court with this mediocre group of guys around him he'd be averaging 30+ without question. 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt while the team builds chemistry together, but if he finishes the season with these kinds of numbers it should well and truly put to rest any of the claims people have tried to make that Brown is on Tatum's level as a player.   He should be averaging close to 30 with Tatum out.

Nah, I disagree with all of this.

Brown has very clearly been the team's best player through the entire start of the season.  And people need to put the Tatum-vs-Brown thing to rest.  The dudes are on the same team.  Trying to measure the two is just pointless fan drama.

Two players being on the same team has never been a reason to not compare.  People have always made arguments about Kobe vs Shaq, Lebron vs Luka, etc. Hell some people have even tried to argue Pau vs Kobe.  When you have two exceptional star players on a team there are always going to be comparisons. 

It's also not just Celtics fans creative this narrative.  It's been everybody around the league - opposing players, analysts, etc.  When Brown won Finals MVP how many people around the league were trying to claim this was proof that Brown was better than Tatum?

I bring this up because I think Tatum cops a LOT of unfair criticism from both fans and people around the league.  Tatum can put up 26 points, 12 rebounds and 7 assists in a series while also playing exceptional defence, and then at the end of the game people will throw dirt on him because he had a bad shooting night.   

We've seen how Tatum has responded when Brown was lost for the season back in the 2020/21 playoffs against Brooklyn.  Tatum averaged 30.6 PPG in that series, including dropping 50 to drag the Celtics to a win in game 3.  And that was in his 4th NBA season at age 22 when he had not yet developed his game to the level it's at today. 

Brown is an excellent player, but people need to realise that he benefits hugely from having Tatum out there on the court.  They all do - Pritchard, White, Hauser.  Tatum draws so much defensive attention that when he's on the court those guys get a tonne of open looks, and I think a lot of people fail to recognise just how many Tatum's mere presence on the court effects everything the team does.   

This is not an attempt to put dirt on Brown because as I already said, he's an excellent player and consistently plays at an all-star level.  All I'm pointing out there is that I think Tatum deserves more appreciation for all the things he does out there and all the ways he impacts games.

[Jiri Welsch]

My biggest disappointment so far is that this is our 4th game of the season, and Jaylen Brown has only looked like the clear best player on the team in one of those four games.

If Tatum was out there on the court with this mediocre group of guys around him he'd be averaging 30+ without question. 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt while the team builds chemistry together, but if he finishes the season with these kinds of numbers it should well and truly put to rest any of the claims people have tried to make that Brown is on Tatum's level as a player.   He should be averaging close to 30 with Tatum out.

Nah, I disagree with all of this.

Brown has very clearly been the team's best player through the entire start of the season.  And people need to put the Tatum-vs-Brown thing to rest.  The dudes are on the same team.  Trying to measure the two is just pointless fan drama.

Two players being on the same team has never been a reason to not compare.  People have always made arguments about Kobe vs Shaq, Lebron vs Luka, etc. Hell some people have even tried to argue Pau vs Kobe.  When you have two exceptional star players on a team there are always going to be comparisons. 

It's also not just Celtics fans creative this narrative.  It's been everybody around the league - opposing players, analysts, etc.  When Brown won Finals MVP how many people around the league were trying to claim this was proof that Brown was better than Tatum?

I bring this up because I think Tatum cops a LOT of unfair criticism from both fans and people around the league.  Tatum can put up 26 points, 12 rebounds and 7 assists in a series while also playing exceptional defence, and then at the end of the game people will throw dirt on him because he had a bad shooting night.   

We've seen how Tatum has responded when Brown was lost for the season back in the 2020/21 playoffs against Brooklyn.  Tatum averaged 30.6 PPG in that series, including dropping 50 to drag the Celtics to a win in game 3.  And that was in his 4th NBA season at age 22 when he had not yet developed his game to the level it's at today. 

Brown is an excellent player, but people need to realise that he benefits hugely from having Tatum out there on the court.  They all do - Pritchard, White, Hauser.  Tatum draws so much defensive attention that when he's on the court those guys get a tonne of open looks, and I think a lot of people fail to recognise just how many Tatum's mere presence on the court effects everything the team does.   

This is not an attempt to put dirt on Brown because as I already said, he's an excellent player and consistently plays at an all-star level.  All I'm pointing out there is that I think Tatum deserves more appreciation for all the things he does out there and all the ways he impacts games.

The whole impetus for the posts ("Brown only looked like the clear best player on the team one out of four games") is just incorrect. So tough to take your subsequent thoughts super seriously.

[Muzzy66]

My biggest disappointment so far is that this is our 4th game of the season, and Jaylen Brown has only looked like the clear best player on the team in one of those four games.

If Tatum was out there on the court with this mediocre group of guys around him he'd be averaging 30+ without question. 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt while the team builds chemistry together, but if he finishes the season with these kinds of numbers it should well and truly put to rest any of the claims people have tried to make that Brown is on Tatum's level as a player.   He should be averaging close to 30 with Tatum out.

Nah, I disagree with all of this.

Brown has very clearly been the team's best player through the entire start of the season.  And people need to put the Tatum-vs-Brown thing to rest.  The dudes are on the same team.  Trying to measure the two is just pointless fan drama.

Two players being on the same team has never been a reason to not compare.  People have always made arguments about Kobe vs Shaq, Lebron vs Luka, etc. Hell some people have even tried to argue Pau vs Kobe.  When you have two exceptional star players on a team there are always going to be comparisons. 

It's also not just Celtics fans creative this narrative.  It's been everybody around the league - opposing players, analysts, etc.  When Brown won Finals MVP how many people around the league were trying to claim this was proof that Brown was better than Tatum?

I bring this up because I think Tatum cops a LOT of unfair criticism from both fans and people around the league.  Tatum can put up 26 points, 12 rebounds and 7 assists in a series while also playing exceptional defence, and then at the end of the game people will throw dirt on him because he had a bad shooting night.   

We've seen how Tatum has responded when Brown was lost for the season back in the 2020/21 playoffs against Brooklyn.  Tatum averaged 30.6 PPG in that series, including dropping 50 to drag the Celtics to a win in game 3.  And that was in his 4th NBA season at age 22 when he had not yet developed his game to the level it's at today. 

Brown is an excellent player, but people need to realise that he benefits hugely from having Tatum out there on the court.  They all do - Pritchard, White, Hauser.  Tatum draws so much defensive attention that when he's on the court those guys get a tonne of open looks, and I think a lot of people fail to recognise just how many Tatum's mere presence on the court effects everything the team does.   

This is not an attempt to put dirt on Brown because as I already said, he's an excellent player and consistently plays at an all-star level.  All I'm pointing out there is that I think Tatum deserves more appreciation for all the things he does out there and all the ways he impacts games.

The whole impetus for the posts ("Brown only looked like the clear best player on the team one out of four games") is just incorrect. So tough to take your subsequent thoughts super seriously.

I don't know...

Game 1 vs the Sixers Brown had 25/6/4 and was +0 while White had 25/3/4 and was -3. 
Game 2 vs the Knicks Brown had 23/4/3 with 7 turnovers and was -14 while White had 15/4/4 with 1 turnover and was +0
Game 4 (today) Brown had 15/7/4 and was +4 while Pritchard was 18/8/3 and +27

If you take out the skewed results from his monster 41-point game in Detroit, Brown is averaging only 21 PPG and is -10 over the other three games.   He hasn't had a PPG average that low since the 2019/20 season when he was 23.  Today he was the only starter who didn't have a double figure positive +/- score.   

I haven't watched the entire games (as I'm working when they are on), but the parts I have seen Brown has looked passive - he hasn't looked like he's embracing the opportunity to be a leader.  At least to me anyway.  Maybe I've missed something.

[SCeltic34]

My biggest disappointment so far is that this is our 4th game of the season, and Jaylen Brown has only looked like the clear best player on the team in one of those four games.

If Tatum was out there on the court with this mediocre group of guys around him he'd be averaging 30+ without question. 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt while the team builds chemistry together, but if he finishes the season with these kinds of numbers it should well and truly put to rest any of the claims people have tried to make that Brown is on Tatum's level as a player.   He should be averaging close to 30 with Tatum out.

Nah, I disagree with all of this.

Brown has very clearly been the team's best player through the entire start of the season.  And people need to put the Tatum-vs-Brown thing to rest.  The dudes are on the same team.  Trying to measure the two is just pointless fan drama.

Two players being on the same team has never been a reason to not compare.  People have always made arguments about Kobe vs Shaq, Lebron vs Luka, etc. Hell some people have even tried to argue Pau vs Kobe.  When you have two exceptional star players on a team there are always going to be comparisons. 

It's also not just Celtics fans creative this narrative.  It's been everybody around the league - opposing players, analysts, etc.  When Brown won Finals MVP how many people around the league were trying to claim this was proof that Brown was better than Tatum?

I bring this up because I think Tatum cops a LOT of unfair criticism from both fans and people around the league.  Tatum can put up 26 points, 12 rebounds and 7 assists in a series while also playing exceptional defence, and then at the end of the game people will throw dirt on him because he had a bad shooting night.   

We've seen how Tatum has responded when Brown was lost for the season back in the 2020/21 playoffs against Brooklyn.  Tatum averaged 30.6 PPG in that series, including dropping 50 to drag the Celtics to a win in game 3.  And that was in his 4th NBA season at age 22 when he had not yet developed his game to the level it's at today. 

Brown is an excellent player, but people need to realise that he benefits hugely from having Tatum out there on the court.  They all do - Pritchard, White, Hauser.  Tatum draws so much defensive attention that when he's on the court those guys get a tonne of open looks, and I think a lot of people fail to recognise just how many Tatum's mere presence on the court effects everything the team does.   

This is not an attempt to put dirt on Brown because as I already said, he's an excellent player and consistently plays at an all-star level.  All I'm pointing out there is that I think Tatum deserves more appreciation for all the things he does out there and all the ways he impacts games.

The whole impetus for the posts ("Brown only looked like the clear best player on the team one out of four games") is just incorrect. So tough to take your subsequent thoughts super seriously.

I don't know...

Game 1 vs the Sixers Brown had 25/6/4 and was +0 while White had 25/3/4 and was -3. 
Game 2 vs the Knicks Brown had 23/4/3 with 7 turnovers and was -14 while White had 15/4/4 with 1 turnover and was +0
Game 4 (today) Brown had 15/7/4 and was +4 while Pritchard was 18/8/3 and +27

If you take out the skewed results from his monster 41-point game in Detroit, Brown is averaging only 21 PPG and is -10 over the other three games.   He hasn't had a PPG average that low since the 2019/20 season when he was 23.  Today he was the only starter who didn't have a double figure positive +/- score.   

I haven't watched the entire games (as I'm working when they are on), but the parts I have seen Brown has looked passive - he hasn't looked like he's embracing the opportunity to be a leader.  At least to me anyway.  Maybe I've missed something.

Why would you arbitrarily exclude 25% of the sample and cherry pick the data to support your argument?

How is the game against Detroit skewed?  If it is, how is the game against the Pelicans tonight not skewed, in which Brown picked up some cheap fouls and ended up playing only 24 minutes for the game, and was forced to sit on the bench while Simmons singlehandedly put on a terrific individual shooting performance, bolstering the +/- of the teammates who shared the floor with him in the 4th?

[ozgod]

To me, the sample size is much too small to arrive at any conclusions. It?s a time for collecting data points and making observations.

[Vermont Green]

I was not able to catch very much of the game last night.  Minott obvious was a stats darling for this one.  I thought that it would be Boucher who ultimately cracked the starting line up but maybe it will be Minott.  Boucher only 3 minutes, is there something going on with him?

The other thing of note is that I am happy to see Garza fill up the box score some.  Rebs, points, good +/-, although 4 fouls.  Queta also had a decent game.  Not sure he can sustain 7 ORebs a game, but good to see.

As to the guards, Pritchard was better but this is not unexpected.  I expect him to settle in and be the same Pritchard he was last season.  As to Simons, glad to see some scoring but he needs to string some games together.  Show some consistency.  At both ends.  This is what he is capable of, it just needs to do it more consistently.

[Vermont Green]

And of course, BOS had 32 points 2nd chance + off turnovers to 26 for NOP.  That is +6 on possession stats.  Major improvement.  They need to keep this up.

For an example of ugly, LAL gave up 35 2nd chance points and 28 points off turnovers.  -17 overall for possession stats.  That is how you loose to a team like POR.  Even without Luka or LeBron, that is still pretty ugly.

[Muzzy66]

My biggest disappointment so far is that this is our 4th game of the season, and Jaylen Brown has only looked like the clear best player on the team in one of those four games.

If Tatum was out there on the court with this mediocre group of guys around him he'd be averaging 30+ without question. 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt while the team builds chemistry together, but if he finishes the season with these kinds of numbers it should well and truly put to rest any of the claims people have tried to make that Brown is on Tatum's level as a player.   He should be averaging close to 30 with Tatum out.

Nah, I disagree with all of this.

Brown has very clearly been the team's best player through the entire start of the season.  And people need to put the Tatum-vs-Brown thing to rest.  The dudes are on the same team.  Trying to measure the two is just pointless fan drama.

Two players being on the same team has never been a reason to not compare.  People have always made arguments about Kobe vs Shaq, Lebron vs Luka, etc. Hell some people have even tried to argue Pau vs Kobe.  When you have two exceptional star players on a team there are always going to be comparisons. 

It's also not just Celtics fans creative this narrative.  It's been everybody around the league - opposing players, analysts, etc.  When Brown won Finals MVP how many people around the league were trying to claim this was proof that Brown was better than Tatum?

I bring this up because I think Tatum cops a LOT of unfair criticism from both fans and people around the league.  Tatum can put up 26 points, 12 rebounds and 7 assists in a series while also playing exceptional defence, and then at the end of the game people will throw dirt on him because he had a bad shooting night.   

We've seen how Tatum has responded when Brown was lost for the season back in the 2020/21 playoffs against Brooklyn.  Tatum averaged 30.6 PPG in that series, including dropping 50 to drag the Celtics to a win in game 3.  And that was in his 4th NBA season at age 22 when he had not yet developed his game to the level it's at today. 

Brown is an excellent player, but people need to realise that he benefits hugely from having Tatum out there on the court.  They all do - Pritchard, White, Hauser.  Tatum draws so much defensive attention that when he's on the court those guys get a tonne of open looks, and I think a lot of people fail to recognise just how many Tatum's mere presence on the court effects everything the team does.   

This is not an attempt to put dirt on Brown because as I already said, he's an excellent player and consistently plays at an all-star level.  All I'm pointing out there is that I think Tatum deserves more appreciation for all the things he does out there and all the ways he impacts games.

The whole impetus for the posts ("Brown only looked like the clear best player on the team one out of four games") is just incorrect. So tough to take your subsequent thoughts super seriously.

I don't know...

Game 1 vs the Sixers Brown had 25/6/4 and was +0 while White had 25/3/4 and was -3. 
Game 2 vs the Knicks Brown had 23/4/3 with 7 turnovers and was -14 while White had 15/4/4 with 1 turnover and was +0
Game 4 (today) Brown had 15/7/4 and was +4 while Pritchard was 18/8/3 and +27

If you take out the skewed results from his monster 41-point game in Detroit, Brown is averaging only 21 PPG and is -10 over the other three games.   He hasn't had a PPG average that low since the 2019/20 season when he was 23.  Today he was the only starter who didn't have a double figure positive +/- score.   

I haven't watched the entire games (as I'm working when they are on), but the parts I have seen Brown has looked passive - he hasn't looked like he's embracing the opportunity to be a leader.  At least to me anyway.  Maybe I've missed something.

Why would you arbitrarily exclude 25% of the sample and cherry pick the data to support your argument?

How is the game against Detroit skewed?  If it is, how is the game against the Pelicans tonight not skewed, in which Brown picked up some cheap fouls and ended up playing only 24 minutes for the game, and was forced to sit on the bench while Simmons singlehandedly put on a terrific individual shooting performance, bolstering the +/- of the teammates who shared the floor with him in the 4th?

When I think of the kind of player Tony Delk is I don't consider him an elite scorer based on the fact that he had one career game where he came off the bench and scored 50.  A 50 point game is clearly an outlier for his career and not typicaly of what you would expect from him in a typical NBA game.

The same is true for Brown with his 40 point game.  Brown played 66 games last season and scored 40+ points once.  That represents 1.5% of his overall season.  For his entire career he's scored 40+ points 13 times out of 607 games, which similarly works out to around 2% of his career. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognise that a 40+ point performance is an extremely rarity for Jaylen Brown.  It's something he might manage once or twice per season on average.  Unless he breaks trends in a huge way and manages 20 40-point games this year, that game against the Pistons is clearly an outlier. 

On the other hand he finished with between 15-25 points a total of 33 times last season.  That's 52% of his total games played.  That clearly is not an outlier and is closely representative of a typical Jaylen Brown performance.

So yeah...given the team has only played four games, one game that's way outside of the norm can drastically skew overall numbers and misrepresent a player's typical performance.  If Brown puts up another 40 point game in the next 2 weeks feel free to point it out to me and I'll eat my words.