Shams: C's Sign Boucher/Niang & two future 2nd rounders to Utah for RJ Luis Jr.

[Big333223]

I would like a peak at the various parallel universes to determine what ownership does if we win the championship, versus if we lose in the second round but with a healthy Tatum, versus real life.

If we win the title, I think there's a good chance that the team would have remained intact minus Kornet.  I think ownership could have justified paying an astronomical tax, because 1) it would have been a one off, and 2) a 3peat is such a historic possibility that it might have been worth the investment.

The most interesting scenario would have been a healthy Tatum, but an early playoff loss.  In that scenario, I think we might have done the Simons trade but kept KP and Horford.  This would have been the ideal scenario, as in 2027 it would have been realistic to stay under the second apron while still keeping KP and Simons.

And then, there's the scenario that we got, where we're left without any viable big men and Simons is very likely a short-timer.  It's the complete garbage scenario, where fans have to get their hopes up for an undrafted rookie.

That's my feeling, too. It seems like they'd be willing to bite the bullet if the possibility of a 3-peat was on the table. Plus, the team makes a lot more money if they get to the Finals, which would make up for some of the financials.

[Celtics4ever]

I know not exceeding the aprons is smart if you not contending. I get the logic in what they are doing.

But my wife and I have fears of the new owner being a cheap owner.    I know it is early most likely paranoia on our part.

[paintitgreen]

I know not exceeding the aprons is smart if you not contending. I get the logic in what they are doing.

But my wife and I have fears of the new owner being a cheap owner.    I know it is early most likely paranoia on our part.

I think the paranoia is perfectly reasonable. Even in a relatively large sports market like Boston we have seen our share of cheap owners and there are plenty others in all leagues. And fund people like to make money. Hopefully the Celtics are more of a plaything to the new ownership group. But we still have no idea because what they are doing now is the most logical move for a team that will definitely not contend in 25-26 and the 26-27 window depends on how Tatum comes back from a very serious injury, something we will not know until next year. We can all just hope.

[tenn_smoothie]

I like what Brad is doing with the roster. It makes no sense to be competitive for a top-6 seed and then first or second round exit. All these moves are about resetting for a second title window. Sure would like to see this group get at least that second banner that fortune stole from the Kevin Garnett Celtics. The only move I have a problem with ....... and it is a huge problem, is extending Mazzulla. When Tatum returns with a rebuilt roster, we need a competent coach. Spin that title all you want, but I watched a microcosm of what is wrong with Mazzulla in Games 1 & 2 during the Knicks series this past season. A terribly flawed offense and a stubborn mind.

[boscel33]

I like what Brad is doing with the roster. It makes no sense to be competitive for a top-6 seed and then first or second round exit. All these moves are about resetting for a second title window. Sure would like to see this group get at least that second banner that fortune stole from the Kevin Garnett Celtics. The only move I have a problem with ....... and it is a huge problem, is extending Mazzulla. When Tatum returns with a rebuilt roster, we need a competent coach. Spin that title all you want, but I watched a microcosm of what is wrong with Mazzulla in Games 1 & 2 during the Knicks series this past season. A terribly flawed offense and a stubborn mind.

IMO, he's just another Doc Rivers.  Doc won a title in Boston, beside himself.  He really couldn't not win it and that's what I feel Joe is.  That said, unless there is a replacement that jumps out, then stay the course.  I here that all of the time, you want to fire someone, but who are you replacing him with.

[Neurotic Guy]

I like what Brad is doing with the roster. It makes no sense to be competitive for a top-6 seed and then first or second round exit. All these moves are about resetting for a second title window. Sure would like to see this group get at least that second banner that fortune stole from the Kevin Garnett Celtics. The only move I have a problem with ....... and it is a huge problem, is extending Mazzulla. When Tatum returns with a rebuilt roster, we need a competent coach. Spin that title all you want, but I watched a microcosm of what is wrong with Mazzulla in Games 1 & 2 during the Knicks series this past season. A terribly flawed offense and a stubborn mind.

IMO, he's just another Doc Rivers.  Doc won a title in Boston, beside himself.  He really couldn't not win it and that's what I feel Joe is.  That said, unless there is a replacement that jumps out, then stay the course.  I here that all of the time, you want to fire someone, but who are you replacing him with.

The only reason I have for being ok with Joe is that Brad seems to like him. 

[Vermont Green]

Coaches are not the primary reason that basketball teams do well or not, win titles or not; they affect winning, but not as much as the players do, including the health of the players.  But I feel that if you coach a team to a title, that does mean something.  Not the end all, maybe more of a floor.

I generally give Mazzulla a pass on the meltdown in 2022-23.  I think that was about a lot more than good or bad coaching.  But Mazzulla has to own the good of 2023-24 and the bad of 2024-25.  I still believe that winning or not is more about the players than the coach, but the coach does not get a pass when a team underperforms.

2025-26 is now a lost season that will have no bearing on how good of a coach Mazzulla is.  But 2026-27 and beyond, the team needs to perform.  I am fine with giving him that much leash based on the title.  The extension doesn't really mean much.  He will still be fired if the team doesn't perform.  No luxury tax or other penalties associated with that salary.

[Goldstar88]

I like what Brad is doing with the roster. It makes no sense to be competitive for a top-6 seed and then first or second round exit. All these moves are about resetting for a second title window. Sure would like to see this group get at least that second banner that fortune stole from the Kevin Garnett Celtics. The only move I have a problem with ....... and it is a huge problem, is extending Mazzulla. When Tatum returns with a rebuilt roster, we need a competent coach. Spin that title all you want, but I watched a microcosm of what is wrong with Mazzulla in Games 1 & 2 during the Knicks series this past season. A terribly flawed offense and a stubborn mind.

IMO, he's just another Doc Rivers.  Doc won a title in Boston, beside himself.  He really couldn't not win it and that's what I feel Joe is.  That said, unless there is a replacement that jumps out, then stay the course.  I here that all of the time, you want to fire someone, but who are you replacing him with.

The only reason I have for being ok with Joe is that Brad seems to like him.

The players seem to like him as well. They also won a championship under Joe which is a plus. 

[mobilija]

Coaches are not the primary reason that basketball teams do well or not, win titles or not; they affect winning, but not as much as the players do, including the health of the players.  But I feel that if you coach a team to a title, that does mean something.  Not the end all, maybe more of a floor.

I generally give Mazzulla a pass on the meltdown in 2022-23.  I think that was about a lot more than good or bad coaching.  But Mazzulla has to own the good of 2023-24 and the bad of 2024-25.  I still believe that winning or not is more about the players than the coach, but the coach does not get a pass when a team underperforms.

2025-26 is now a lost season that will have no bearing on how good of a coach Mazzulla is.  But 2026-27 and beyond, the team needs to perform.  I am fine with giving him that much leash based on the title.  The extension doesn't really mean much.  He will still be fired if the team doesn't perform.  No luxury tax or other penalties associated with that salary.

25-26 may have more bearing on the quality of coach Mazzulla than any other season. Can he get this under staffed team to be competitive and perform at a high level? Can he develop a couple players to be useful players in the following ?meaningful? season?

Good coaching matters more when you have a lower quality of player. This is the year that can bring more clarity than any other as to the coaching talent on this team.

[Goldstar88]

Coaches are not the primary reason that basketball teams do well or not, win titles or not; they affect winning, but not as much as the players do, including the health of the players.  But I feel that if you coach a team to a title, that does mean something.  Not the end all, maybe more of a floor.

I generally give Mazzulla a pass on the meltdown in 2022-23.  I think that was about a lot more than good or bad coaching.  But Mazzulla has to own the good of 2023-24 and the bad of 2024-25.  I still believe that winning or not is more about the players than the coach, but the coach does not get a pass when a team underperforms.

2025-26 is now a lost season that will have no bearing on how good of a coach Mazzulla is.  But 2026-27 and beyond, the team needs to perform.  I am fine with giving him that much leash based on the title.  The extension doesn't really mean much.  He will still be fired if the team doesn't perform.  No luxury tax or other penalties associated with that salary.

25-26 may have more bearing on the quality of coach Mazzulla than any other season. Can he get this under staffed team to be competitive and perform at a high level? Can he develop a couple players to be useful players in the following ?meaningful? season?

Good coaching matters more when you have a lower quality of player. This is the year that can bring more clarity than any other as to the coaching talent on this team.

It?s hard to win with teams that are lacking talent. Just look at the Spurs. They haven?t been over .500 since 2018. Pop was coaching up until last year and he?s one of the greatest to ever do it.

[celticinorlando]

This year is a throw away year. No JT. No bigs worth much of anything. Bench is going to be pretty mid.

I think by now Brad might have thought Simons would be gone. But it seems we are stuck with him to at least the trade deadline.

[Vermont Green]

Coaches are not the primary reason that basketball teams do well or not, win titles or not; they affect winning, but not as much as the players do, including the health of the players.  But I feel that if you coach a team to a title, that does mean something.  Not the end all, maybe more of a floor.

I generally give Mazzulla a pass on the meltdown in 2022-23.  I think that was about a lot more than good or bad coaching.  But Mazzulla has to own the good of 2023-24 and the bad of 2024-25.  I still believe that winning or not is more about the players than the coach, but the coach does not get a pass when a team underperforms.

2025-26 is now a lost season that will have no bearing on how good of a coach Mazzulla is.  But 2026-27 and beyond, the team needs to perform.  I am fine with giving him that much leash based on the title.  The extension doesn't really mean much.  He will still be fired if the team doesn't perform.  No luxury tax or other penalties associated with that salary.

25-26 may have more bearing on the quality of coach Mazzulla than any other season. Can he get this under staffed team to be competitive and perform at a high level? Can he develop a couple players to be useful players in the following ?meaningful? season?

Good coaching matters more when you have a lower quality of player. This is the year that can bring more clarity than any other as to the coaching talent on this team.

It's hard to win with teams that are lacking talent. Just look at the Spurs. They haven't been over .500 since 2018. Pop was coaching up until last year and he's one of the greatest to ever do it.

This is more where I was going.  If BOS doesn't make the playoffs this season, you can't really hold that against Mazzulla.  But that does not mean that the performance of the team has no reflection on Mazzulla's coaching ability.  I thought that Doc did a good job coaching those ORL teams back when he first started.  The teams were not that good but played hard.  Same for his first few seasons in BOS.

[hwangjini_1]

Coaches are not the primary reason that basketball teams do well or not, win titles or not; they affect winning, but not as much as the players do, including the health of the players.  But I feel that if you coach a team to a title, that does mean something.  Not the end all, maybe more of a floor.

I generally give Mazzulla a pass on the meltdown in 2022-23.  I think that was about a lot more than good or bad coaching.  But Mazzulla has to own the good of 2023-24 and the bad of 2024-25.  I still believe that winning or not is more about the players than the coach, but the coach does not get a pass when a team underperforms.

2025-26 is now a lost season that will have no bearing on how good of a coach Mazzulla is.  But 2026-27 and beyond, the team needs to perform.  I am fine with giving him that much leash based on the title.  The extension doesn't really mean much.  He will still be fired if the team doesn't perform.  No luxury tax or other penalties associated with that salary.

25-26 may have more bearing on the quality of coach Mazzulla than any other season. Can he get this under staffed team to be competitive and perform at a high level? Can he develop a couple players to be useful players in the following ?meaningful? season?

Good coaching matters more when you have a lower quality of player. This is the year that can bring more clarity than any other as to the coaching talent on this team.

It's hard to win with teams that are lacking talent. Just look at the Spurs. They haven't been over .500 since 2018. Pop was coaching up until last year and he's one of the greatest to ever do it.

This is more where I was going.  If BOS doesn't make the playoffs this season, you can't really hold that against Mazzulla.  But that does not mean that the performance of the team has no reflection on Mazzulla's coaching ability.  I thought that Doc did a good job coaching those ORL teams back when he first started.  The teams were not that good but played hard.  Same for his first few seasons in BOS.

one could also make the case the for the first few years stevens coached the celtics, he had them playing above the aggregate team talent. but there are real limits to how far coaching can take a team that lacks enough talent.