Shams: Kristaps Porzingis Traded In 3-Team Deal (BOS-ATL-BKN)

[blink]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

[jambr380]

Btw, why did we send out a 2nd only to get back another 2nd in this deal? Like, why was that an essential part of getting this deal done? Do we know the details of those picks yet?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Btw, why did we send out a 2nd only to get back another 2nd in this deal? Like, why was that an essential part of getting this deal done? Do we know the details of those picks yet?

the one we sent out is the worst of next years between us and Atlanta (i think). The one we got back is a Cleveland 2nd in 2031.

[jambr380]

Btw, why did we send out a 2nd only to get back another 2nd in this deal? Like, why was that an essential part of getting this deal done? Do we know the details of those picks yet?

the one we sent out is the worst of next years between us and Atlanta (i think). The one we got back is a Cleveland 2nd in 2031.

Okay, thanks and TP for that. So I guess that probably benefits us, at least in terms of tradeable future picks. It was an awkward addition

[Moranis]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

I'm definitely taking the Celtics top 3 over the Lakers, Warriors, Nuggets, and Houston, especially if we are talking about the 26-27 season.

I see the argument for OKC, but I like White and Brown a lot better than Williams and Holgrem.

26-27 is too far out to know what a team like the Lakers are going to do, but I do find people on here significantly overrate White.  He is a very good all around player, but he is not a guy that should be considered a core piece on a title team. 

Here is the Ringer's player ranking that was updated June 4 https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Tatum is 10, Brown is 21, White is 38, Simons is 87, Pritchard is 89

That isn't a championship core roster even assuming Tatum actually comes back next year and even plays at all let alone the 10th best player in the league. 

The 9 guys ahead of Tatum in order are Joker, SGA, Giannis, Luka, Steph, Edwards, Tyrese (before his injury), Mitchell, and Brunson.  Then you have Tatum, Wemby, Lebron (2nd Laker), AD, Durant, Kawhi, Cunningham, Mobley (2nd Cav), Towns (2nd Knick), Booker, J. Williams (2nd Thunder).  Then we get Brown at 21 (2nd Celtic), Banchero, Siakam (2nd Pacer), Butler (2nd Warrior), JJJ, Fox (2nd Spur), Chet (3rd Thunder), Garland (3rd Cav), Murray (2nd Nugget), Harden (2nd Clipper), Sabonis, Bam, Trae, Morant (2nd Grizzlie), Zubac (3rd Clipper), Sengun (2nd Rocket), Wagner (2nd Magic), White (3rd Celtic), Maxey, and OG (3rd Knick) rounds out the top 40.  Thompson (3rd Rocket) and Gordon (3rd Nugget) are the next 2. 

So in the top 42 the following teams have 3 players

Thunder - SGA, Williams, Chet - all 3 ranked ahead of respective Celtic
Cavs - Mitchell, Mobley, Garland - all 3 ranked ahead of respective Celtic
Clippers - Kawhi, Harden, Zubac
Celtics - Tatum, Brown, White
Knicks - Brunson, Towns, OG
Nuggets - Jokic, Murray, Gordon

Reaves is 54th so well behind White, but with Luka at 4 and Lebron at 12, they will be better next year at least.

Allen is 57th so the Cavs are the first team to have 4 ranked players (Hunter is 82 ahead of Simons), followed 1 spot later by Powell giving the Clippers 4. Bridges is 60 for the 4th Knick (Hart also comes in before Simons).  Caruso 63 and Hartenstein is 65 (Thunder 1st team with 5). VanVleet 64 for the 4th Rocket. MPJ and Braun both come in before (and MPJ well before) Simons. 

Boston isn't winning a championship with Tatum, Brown, and White without adding at least 1 more top tier player and they can't do that with the assets they have (and those 3 salaries) and that makes the very large assumption that Tatum resembles the player he was post injury.  That is the problem.  They need to trade Brown and cash in his value while they still can.

[keevsnick]

Btw, why did we send out a 2nd only to get back another 2nd in this deal? Like, why was that an essential part of getting this deal done? Do we know the details of those picks yet?

the answer is value. A pick in 2026 has more value than a more distant one in 2031, and Atlanta must have felt like they needed a little more value to do the deal. Swapping second rounder's is one way to do that.

[tonydelk]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

This team without tatum is a play in team.  With tatum they are the new Milwaukee.  Good team but not going to win a championship.  They also dont have assets to pick up a piece to out them over the top.  With that being said it may be wise to trade JB to get young pieces who can develop into a star.  Sad day as a cs fan today.  Thank you NBA for ruining the sport with this apron BS.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

This team without tatum is a play in team.  With tatum they are the new Milwaukee.  Good team but not going to win a championship.  They also dont have assets to pick up a piece to out them over the top.  With that being said it may be wise to trade JB to get young pieces who can develop into a star.  Sad day as a cs fan today.  Thank you NBA for ruining the sport with this apron BS.

But you aren't including Simons in that core, or the other players that Stevens can put around them. This is the most negative view of it, even though Stevens has already proven to have the ability to put a good team around the Js and an eye for getting talent at the edges.

[Moranis]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

I am not worried about the Lakers or GSW.  We are talking about 2026-27.  Durant probably is not a factor by then either.  Denver and OKC are at least worth debating.  Jokic and Murray are only in the discussion if Murray is healthy.  I expect DEN to be in the mix for sure, but I feel Tatum-Brown-White are right there with them at worst (assuming Tatum returns to form).

I don't buy that OKC with SGA-Williams-Holmgren are any better than Tatum-Brown-White.  OKC is going to be facing the same issues of resigning their players and dealing with the 2nd apron.  Right now, all the supporting cast are on rookie contracts, but that doesn't last forever.

They are all potential 30%, not 35% players at the top (aside from SGA).  That matter a lot.  They also have a lot more young players and future draft picks.  They are much better positioned to keep their core in tact that Boston is right now.  They are much more similar to Boston from 2021, except that SGA is significantly better than Tatum was in 2021 (well pretty much everyone is better) and they have much better draft capital.  Boston had a very nice run beginning that very next year making the Finals in 22, losing a heartbreaking game 7 in the ECF in 23, and then winning in 24.  The team choked away this year.  Pretty unacceptable, but it showed pretty clearly the cracks in the armor.  The team is done as currently constituted.  Team needs a full reset this year and the best way to do that is trade Brown and restock the assets.  There are plenty of potential trades that can do that out there.

[blink]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

This team without tatum is a play in team.  With tatum they are the new Milwaukee.  Good team but not going to win a championship.  They also dont have assets to pick up a piece to out them over the top.  With that being said it may be wise to trade JB to get young pieces who can develop into a star.  Sad day as a cs fan today.  Thank you NBA for ruining the sport with this apron BS.

That has nothing to do with my comment though.  The assertion raised was that JT/JB/Dwhite aren't good enough to be a championship core.   The just won one about a year ago.  Without Tatum we are definitely worse - absolutely, but I wasn't even saying anything about that.

[blink]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

I am not worried about the Lakers or GSW.  We are talking about 2026-27.  Durant probably is not a factor by then either.  Denver and OKC are at least worth debating.  Jokic and Murray are only in the discussion if Murray is healthy.  I expect DEN to be in the mix for sure, but I feel Tatum-Brown-White are right there with them at worst (assuming Tatum returns to form).

I don't buy that OKC with SGA-Williams-Holmgren are any better than Tatum-Brown-White.  OKC is going to be facing the same issues of resigning their players and dealing with the 2nd apron.  Right now, all the supporting cast are on rookie contracts, but that doesn't last forever.

They are all potential 30%, not 35% players at the top (aside from SGA).  That matter a lot.  They also have a lot more young players and future draft picks.  They are much better positioned to keep their core in tact that Boston is right now.  They are much more similar to Boston from 2021, except that SGA is significantly better than Tatum was in 2021 (well pretty much everyone is better) and they have much better draft capital.  Boston had a very nice run beginning that very next year making the Finals in 22, losing a heartbreaking game 7 in the ECF in 23, and then winning in 24.  The team choked away this year.  Pretty unacceptable, but it showed pretty clearly the cracks in the armor.  The team is done as currently constituted.  Team needs a full reset this year and the best way to do that is trade Brown and restock the assets.  There are plenty of potential trades that can do that out there.

You have been wanting to trade Brown for many years.  You said over and over that JT and JB can't win a title together, they are a bad fit, they can't do anything together...Well they win the title, JB is the East Finals MVP, and the Finals MVP and here you are still with the same dog and pony show.  I mean everyone is welcome to their opinion.  But it doesn't seem logical to me.  It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that the C's are going to trade Brown at this point.  They already traded Jrue and KP.  That got them where they needed to go salary wise.   

[Moranis]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

This team without tatum is a play in team.  With tatum they are the new Milwaukee.  Good team but not going to win a championship.  They also dont have assets to pick up a piece to out them over the top.  With that being said it may be wise to trade JB to get young pieces who can develop into a star.  Sad day as a cs fan today.  Thank you NBA for ruining the sport with this apron BS.

That has nothing to do with my comment though.  The assertion raised was that JT/JB/Dwhite aren't good enough to be a championship core.   The just won one about a year ago.  Without Tatum we are definitely worse - absolutely, but I wasn't even saying anything about that.

Holiday was significantly better than White in the Finals though (and was better overall in the playoffs though it was much closer).  That is what I'm saying with White. He isn't a core piece.  He is a very good all around player, but he isn't a championship core type player. 

[keevsnick]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

Saying that Tatum, Brown, White isn't a championship core?   The just won one last year.   Please go to the end of the line with the rest of the losers who complain that we didn't beat anyone good, or what ever other garbage excuse.  My god.

This team without tatum is a play in team.  With tatum they are the new Milwaukee.  Good team but not going to win a championship.  They also dont have assets to pick up a piece to out them over the top.  With that being said it may be wise to trade JB to get young pieces who can develop into a star.  Sad day as a cs fan today.  Thank you NBA for ruining the sport with this apron BS.

To me it's silly to say definitely that Tatum/Brown/White isn't a core that could win a title. In the three seasons before this one that core won a title, made game 7 of the ECF and made the finals. So clearly, they CAN win with the right team around them.

The C's will have Simons who is a good 26 year old 20ppg scorer on an expiring, Hauser's bargain 4/45 contract, Pritchard's bargain 3/23 contract, an 8.2 million dollar expiring in Niang, a 22 million dollar TPE from the KP trade, #30 last year in Schierman, #28 and #32 this year, and be able to trade some combination of first rounders in 26, 27, 31 and 33 first rounders going forward.  Thats not an elite asset pool, but its certainly enough to get a couple good role players to fill out around Tatum/Brown/White.

And who knows, maybe they even get lucky and a draft pick hits. Maybe one of Sheierman/#28/#32 becomes their Nembhard, McDaniels, Aldama, Herb Jones, or another Payton Pritchard. All starter level or high backups who were drafted in that 25-35 range.

So ya, I don't see any reason they can't take it easy next year, reset some financial stuff, and then rebuild next offseason with an eye towadrs competeing in 26-27. They don't have the MOST assets out there, but they have enough to fill in the role players.

[Moranis]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

I am not worried about the Lakers or GSW.  We are talking about 2026-27.  Durant probably is not a factor by then either.  Denver and OKC are at least worth debating.  Jokic and Murray are only in the discussion if Murray is healthy.  I expect DEN to be in the mix for sure, but I feel Tatum-Brown-White are right there with them at worst (assuming Tatum returns to form).

I don't buy that OKC with SGA-Williams-Holmgren are any better than Tatum-Brown-White.  OKC is going to be facing the same issues of resigning their players and dealing with the 2nd apron.  Right now, all the supporting cast are on rookie contracts, but that doesn't last forever.

They are all potential 30%, not 35% players at the top (aside from SGA).  That matter a lot.  They also have a lot more young players and future draft picks.  They are much better positioned to keep their core in tact that Boston is right now.  They are much more similar to Boston from 2021, except that SGA is significantly better than Tatum was in 2021 (well pretty much everyone is better) and they have much better draft capital.  Boston had a very nice run beginning that very next year making the Finals in 22, losing a heartbreaking game 7 in the ECF in 23, and then winning in 24.  The team choked away this year.  Pretty unacceptable, but it showed pretty clearly the cracks in the armor.  The team is done as currently constituted.  Team needs a full reset this year and the best way to do that is trade Brown and restock the assets.  There are plenty of potential trades that can do that out there.

You have been wanting to trade Brown for many years.  You said over and over that JT and JB can't win a title together, they are a bad fit, they can't do anything together...Well they win the title, JB is the East Finals MVP, and the Finals MVP and here you are still with the same dog and pony show.  I mean everyone is welcome to their opinion.  But it doesn't seem logical to me.  It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that the C's are going to trade Brown at this point.  They already traded Jrue and KP.  That got them where they needed to go salary wise.

Those awards are nonsense.  Everyone agrees Tatum is a better player than Brown and in both those series, Tatum scored more points, grabbed more rebounds, and dished out more assists.  The writers got cute and got it wrong.  Perhaps the worst voting for finals mvp ever and that is saying something considering Iguodala won it over both Curry and Lebron. 

Brown played much more complimentary during that whole run to the championship.  He didn't do that very much before that run and he didn't do that last year, which is why the team flamed out in the 2nd round. 

And yes I would have traded Brown for Kawhi in the summer of 2018 and the Celtics would almost certainly have won the 2019 title had they done that and had at least as many as they have now (and who knows what Kawhi and Kyrie would have done after winning the 2019 title).  We might very well be sitting on a dynasty right now.  The great what if.

The numbers support that Boston wins at about the same rate whether Brown plays in the game or is out.  It has been that way since his 2nd year when he became a starter.  He just doesn't impact the game like he should.  If they keep him this year, I fully believe it will become very apparent that I have been correct in this.  He simply isn't good enough to be a #1 and his skill set doesn't compliment Tatum all that well so he isn't the correct #2 on this team (he'd be pretty good next to someone like Jokic or Giannis though).  White is a much better complimentary piece, he just isn't good enough as a player to be a #2.

[blink]

This trade signals to me they are tanking next year, which I think means they are trading Brown.

I don't see that.  I don't feel that these trades make it any more or less likely that they trade Brown than before the trades.

The core is Tatum - Brown - White.  How many teams have a better big 3 than that?  Not OKC I don't think.  Not IND for sure.  There may not ever be a team as good as the 2023-24 Celtics again, as long as these salary and tax rules remain.

OKC clearly and by a wide margin has not only a better top 3, but also a younger one and a much deeper supporting cast.  It isn't close.  The Lakers have a better top 3 right now. The Warriors do as well.  The Nuggets probably do as well (though that is as much because of just how better Jokic is than Tatum).  Houston does, at least for next year (and a much deeper and younger team with many more high end assets to trade).

Tatum, Brown, White simply isn't a championship core.  It really wasn't one when they won, they were just 6 deep in a strange year, but now they have 3 maybe 4 depending on how good Simons is. They aren't going to have the best player on the floor in the truly meaningful series, they have to beat those teams with depth and they just don't have it.  The team needs a real and true reset and a full-blown 1-year tank.

I am not worried about the Lakers or GSW.  We are talking about 2026-27.  Durant probably is not a factor by then either.  Denver and OKC are at least worth debating.  Jokic and Murray are only in the discussion if Murray is healthy.  I expect DEN to be in the mix for sure, but I feel Tatum-Brown-White are right there with them at worst (assuming Tatum returns to form).

I don't buy that OKC with SGA-Williams-Holmgren are any better than Tatum-Brown-White.  OKC is going to be facing the same issues of resigning their players and dealing with the 2nd apron.  Right now, all the supporting cast are on rookie contracts, but that doesn't last forever.

They are all potential 30%, not 35% players at the top (aside from SGA).  That matter a lot.  They also have a lot more young players and future draft picks.  They are much better positioned to keep their core in tact that Boston is right now.  They are much more similar to Boston from 2021, except that SGA is significantly better than Tatum was in 2021 (well pretty much everyone is better) and they have much better draft capital.  Boston had a very nice run beginning that very next year making the Finals in 22, losing a heartbreaking game 7 in the ECF in 23, and then winning in 24.  The team choked away this year.  Pretty unacceptable, but it showed pretty clearly the cracks in the armor.  The team is done as currently constituted.  Team needs a full reset this year and the best way to do that is trade Brown and restock the assets.  There are plenty of potential trades that can do that out there.

You have been wanting to trade Brown for many years.  You said over and over that JT and JB can't win a title together, they are a bad fit, they can't do anything together...Well they win the title, JB is the East Finals MVP, and the Finals MVP and here you are still with the same dog and pony show.  I mean everyone is welcome to their opinion.  But it doesn't seem logical to me.  It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that the C's are going to trade Brown at this point.  They already traded Jrue and KP.  That got them where they needed to go salary wise.

Those awards are nonsense.  Everyone agrees Tatum is a better player than Brown and in both those series, Tatum scored more points, grabbed more rebounds, and dished out more assists.  The writers got cute and got it wrong.  Perhaps the worst voting for finals mvp ever and that is saying something considering Iguodala won it over both Curry and Lebron. 

Brown played much more complimentary during that whole run to the championship.  He didn't do that very much before that run and he didn't do that last year, which is why the team flamed out in the 2nd round. 

And yes I would have traded Brown for Kawhi in the summer of 2018 and the Celtics would almost certainly have won the 2019 title had they done that and had at least as many as they have now (and who knows what Kawhi and Kyrie would have done after winning the 2019 title).  We might very well be sitting on a dynasty right now.  The great what if.

The numbers support that Boston wins at about the same rate whether Brown plays in the game or is out.  It has been that way since his 2nd year when he became a starter.  He just doesn't impact the game like he should.  If they keep him this year, I fully believe it will become very apparent that I have been correct in this.  He simply isn't good enough to be a #1 and his skill set doesn't compliment Tatum all that well so he isn't the correct #2 on this team (he'd be pretty good next to someone like Jokic or Giannis though).  White is a much better complimentary piece, he just isn't good enough as a player to be a #2.

More of the same I hate Brown propaganda.   We heard if for years, all of us have eyes and know what happened for us to win the title.  It must have been really painful for you to have to watch JB have so much success and play so well.   I will just say that I disagree with almost everything you wrote.   I will stop engaging you about it.