LeBron James bemoans ring culture in NBA: 'It's never enough'

[Moranis]

LeBron is a modern day Wilt Chamberlain.  A dominant productive force in his era, that did not win a lot of titles and came up short.  4 for 6 record even with his ring stacking ways in trying to build teams to win him a ring.

Lebron has won as many titles as any other great player of his era.  Him and Curry have 4, Wade has 3, and no one else has more than 2.  Now maybe you count Duncan and Kobe in his era, but they each won multiple titles before Lebron was even in the league and less than him during their career overlaps.  Giannis, Kawhi, and Jokic each only have 1 and I'm not seeing a clear path for either to get more than that.

Entirely possible I've forgotten how to count, but Ducan and LeBron both won three rings during their overlap, no?

There's also a point of view that LeBron and Kobe both won two titles during their overlap, but it depends on how letter-of-the-law you want to be in your definitions (more specifically: if you count 2016/Kobe's farewell tour as a 'real' season for him.)

you are correct . TD had 3 in career overlap period, which is same as Lebron.  Still not more though, which is point I was making.

Lebron is very lucky that Manu Ginobili missed a FT and Ray Allen hit a clutch 3PT, or it would be 4-2 Duncan.

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

or if the Cavs don't miss 2 FG's at the end of regulation in game 1 in 2015, then there is no OT and Irving doesn't get hurt and the Cavs could have easily gone back to back in 15 and 16.  The what if game is fun, but not overly productive. 

[smicker16]

In my opinion, winning a title does matter for stars in the NBA and QBs. I don?t think other sports or players it really matters. It is very much not the only thing though at all.

I also think LeBron has won A LOT as much as we would like to feel differently. 4 titles is a lot in this era. So he has for sure won a lot and he has incredible longevity, incredible individual accomplishments and stats overall. For me he is clearly top 2 of all time as much as I hate to admit it. And then I can understand both arguments between him and Jordan.

I don?t hold him losing 6 times in the finals against him really. I would also say I don?t think the terminology of him dragging those teams to the finals is the best way to phrase it too. Most of those finals appearances came after the Celtics big three. There was really no one else to challenge him in the East. Rose got hurt, PG and the Pacers weren?t really at that level. And he basically had to go through those regular season darlings of the Hawks and Raptors often who were never a real threat in the playoffs. So I do not hold the six losses against him but I also dont think he deserves to be the GOAT because of being able to beat those teams.

[Who]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

[Moranis]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

the thing is, Magic only stayed in the draft because the Lakers won the coin toss and he wanted to play with Kareem. Jordan retired so the Bulls could create an entirely new team (only Jordan and Pippen were on both the 3rd and 4th titles).  Had Jordan not retired there is a decent chance the Bulls don't win another title (Cartwright and company couldnt contend with Hakeem and Shaq was coming and Jordan was exhausted and needed the break). When the best teammate your drafted team can come upnafter your rookie year is Big Z, you aren't going to win anything.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-05-sp-83-story.html

[Phantom255x]

I don't entirely disagree with what Lebron is saying. But my things are, he has been to multiple different teams (Cleveland twice, Miami, LA), and he's clearly "LeGM" in these organizations. Btw, this isn't me "making that up", former players have basically said the same. The moves to get Love in Cleveland, form the Big 3 in Miami, even this recent one involving AD and Doncic. Anyone who believes he wasn't involved in these are being very naive.

So yeah, he's not wrong with his comments. But he also is being a bit of a hypocrite if he's acting like he never cared about "ring culture" when the man did everything to try to win multiple rings. No one traded him away, he chose to go to different teams and even did the whole "The Decision" segment on ESPN before picking Miami. Why? Is that not about chasing rings? Also, he went to Miami and did the whole "not one, not two, not three...". Remember?

I do believe though that right now, his main focus is building his brand/empire as well as getting his sons to the NBA in an established setting. It's not getting #5, which may be why the timing of this happened. Not to say he won't try if he feels the Lakers are close, but if things get dicey or he knows the Lakers have no shot he's okay with it. He's still gonna get those yearly 50M checks from the Lakers for as long as he wants.

[Goldstar88]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

the thing is, Magic only stayed in the draft because the Lakers won the coin toss and he wanted to play with Kareem. Jordan retired so the Bulls could create an entirely new team (only Jordan and Pippen were on both the 3rd and 4th titles).  Had Jordan not retired there is a decent chance the Bulls don't win another title (Cartwright and company couldnt contend with Hakeem and Shaq was coming and Jordan was exhausted and needed the break). When the best teammate your drafted team can come upnafter your rookie year is Big Z, you aren't going to win anything.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-05-sp-83-story.html

He had some good teammates. As a Rookie he had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Ricky Davis. Not sure how you can leave Boozer out, when he was 2nd on the team in scoring that year.

[Moranis]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

the thing is, Magic only stayed in the draft because the Lakers won the coin toss and he wanted to play with Kareem. Jordan retired so the Bulls could create an entirely new team (only Jordan and Pippen were on both the 3rd and 4th titles).  Had Jordan not retired there is a decent chance the Bulls don't win another title (Cartwright and company couldnt contend with Hakeem and Shaq was coming and Jordan was exhausted and needed the break). When the best teammate your drafted team can come upnafter your rookie year is Big Z, you aren't going to win anything.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-05-sp-83-story.html

He had some good teammates. As a Rookie he had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Ricky Davis. Not sure how you can leave off Boozer out, when he was 2nd on the team in scoring that year.

after means after. not sure what is hard to understand about that word.

[Goldstar88]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

the thing is, Magic only stayed in the draft because the Lakers won the coin toss and he wanted to play with Kareem. Jordan retired so the Bulls could create an entirely new team (only Jordan and Pippen were on both the 3rd and 4th titles).  Had Jordan not retired there is a decent chance the Bulls don't win another title (Cartwright and company couldnt contend with Hakeem and Shaq was coming and Jordan was exhausted and needed the break). When the best teammate your drafted team can come upnafter your rookie year is Big Z, you aren't going to win anything.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-05-sp-83-story.html

He had some good teammates. As a Rookie he had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Ricky Davis. Not sure how you can leave off Boozer out, when he was 2nd on the team in scoring that year.

after means after. not sure what is hard to understand about that word.

Well, you said upnafter. How about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West, Those guys were good as well. He needed Wade, a top 5 player to get over the hump and win his first championship. Dwayne already won a ring before James got there and he didn?t have a top 5 player with him. Shaq was still good at that point, but nowhere near what he once was. Believe he was 34 years old during those Finals.

[Roy H.]

about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West,

Williams and Varejao are the only guys there I would consider to be above average players.  I think LeBron is a pompous blowhard, but his teammates mostly sucked during his first tenure in Cleveland.

[Moranis]

It's crazy that if Ray had missed that three pointer, Lebron would have only won one title in four years in Miami, despite forming a super team.

the ultimate ring-chasing move if there ever was one.  even when rigging the system as best he could, he could barely squeak out 2 titles.  even then, Wade was the best player in the first title run and Ray had to save his bacon in the second one.

Multiple super teams

(1) The Miami Heat 2011-14 = Wade and Bosh. Wade was the 2nd best player in the league at the time. Bosh was a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league.

(2) Cleveland Cavaliers 2015-18 = Kyrie Irving and K Love. Love was talked about as a top 10 player when in Minnesota. So top 10 or top 15. Kyrie was the 2nd best scoring PG behind Steph Curry in the league. An All-Star with the capacity to become a top 10 player in the league although he never made that leap in Cleveland.

The only reason this group isn't viewed higher and as a super team is that Durant joined the Warriors and created an even bigger super team.

LeBron would have won the title in 2015 against GSW if Love and Kyrie had of been healthy. They won it in 2016. They likely would have continued to win titles against Golden State (or others) if Durant had not joined GSW.

(3) LA Lakers = tandem with Anthony Davis. Not quite a super team but the most potent 1-2 punch inside-outside duo the league had seen since Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe thoroughly dominated the league en route to 3 straight championships and it should have been more if not for interpersonal problems. LeBron and AD had the same potential. They never quite figured it out and made many mistakes in filling the supporting cast around them which lowered their potential and stopped them from being a super-team.

----------

My point is it was not just one super-team. It was 3 separate attempts one after another to form a super team. Right through from 2011 to today in 2025 with Luka Doncic.

Trying to stack the deck in his favour. Jumping around the league to create better title opportunities. That is LeBron's legacy.

the thing is, Magic only stayed in the draft because the Lakers won the coin toss and he wanted to play with Kareem. Jordan retired so the Bulls could create an entirely new team (only Jordan and Pippen were on both the 3rd and 4th titles).  Had Jordan not retired there is a decent chance the Bulls don't win another title (Cartwright and company couldnt contend with Hakeem and Shaq was coming and Jordan was exhausted and needed the break). When the best teammate your drafted team can come upnafter your rookie year is Big Z, you aren't going to win anything.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-05-sp-83-story.html

He had some good teammates. As a Rookie he had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Ricky Davis. Not sure how you can leave off Boozer out, when he was 2nd on the team in scoring that year.

after means after. not sure what is hard to understand about that word.

Well, you said upnafter. How about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West, Those guys were good as well. He needed Wade, a top 5 player to get over the hump and win his first championship. Dwayne already won a ring before James got there and he didn?t have a top 5 player with him. Shaq was still good at that point, but nowhere near what he once was. Believe he was 34 years old during those Finals.

None of those guys were good. You are being quite silly now. 

And that works with Jordan and all great players anyway. I mean Jordan was on a team with HOFer George Gervin, Charles Oakley, Orlando Woolrodge, John Paxson, and Dave Corzine that couldn't even win a playoff game in 2 years (the second year Gervin was swapped for Sedale Threatt and Brad Sellers). Jordan couldn't win a playoff series until he had a top 50 all time player as a teammate. At least be consistent and hold everyone to the same standard.

[Goldstar88]

about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West,

Williams and Varejao are the only guys there I would consider to be above average players.  I think LeBron is a pompous blowhard, but his teammates mostly sucked during his first tenure in Cleveland.

Gooden was giving them 14pts/9rebs his first season. Larry Hughes averaged 22pts/6rebs/5ast the year before he joined the Cavs. He was the 2nd scorer behind LeBron his first season there. Hughes was defensive first team in 2005 and led the league in steals. Those are good players.

[Moranis]

about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West,

Williams and Varejao are the only guys there I would consider to be above average players.  I think LeBron is a pompous blowhard, but his teammates mostly sucked during his first tenure in Cleveland.

Gooden was giving them 14pts/9rebs his first season. Larry Hughes averaged 22pts/6rebs/5ast the year before he joined the Cavs. He was the 2nd scorer behind LeBron his first season there. Hughes was defensive first team in 2005 and led the league in steals. Those are good players.

Come on man, you are being ridiculous, but again let's be consistent.

The year before Jordan joined the Bulls here are the stats of the guys he played with

Woolridge - 19/5 on 53% shooting
Dailey - 18/3/3
Greenwood - 12/10
Corzine - 12/7/2.5

Pretty good stats for which Jordan was added along with former 2-time 1st team all defense and all star Caldwell Jones and Steve Johnson who after playing with Jordan finished 11th in MVP voting in 87 and was an all star in 88 before getting hurt.

Why didn't the Bulls win more than 38 games and why did they lose 3-1 to the Bucks in the 1st round of the playoffs?

The next year they still had Woolridge, Dailey, and Corzine, but added Oakley, Paxson, Gene Banks (who in the 4 years preceding the Bulls per 36 averaged 15/8/3.5 shooting 54.4%), and HOFer George Gervin. Now Gervin was at the end of his career, but had been an all star the 11 years directly before joining the Bulls and still averaged over 16 ppg his one year in Chicago.  Jordan missed a lot of the season, but was back and healthy for the playoffs.  They got swept in the 1st round and were blown out in 2 of the 3 games.

Why didn't the Bulls win a single playoff game?

Now surely the next year was different.  I mean Oakley was older and better, Corzine, Paxson, Banks were still "good" and they added Sedale Threatt in his 4th year mid season who at his peak was a 15/7 player.  They also added NBA Champion Earl Cureton and the 9th pick in the draft Brad Sellers.  Surely it was different this time with a more mature Jordan.  Nope, swept again.

Finally in 1988, the Bulls add a rookie out of Central Arkansas with the 5th pick and also added the 10th pick out of Clemson, and everything changed.  They won a playoff series that year and even got a game from the Pistons.  The next year as Pippen and Grant started to develop into what they'd become, they went to the ECF and picked up a game on the Pistons, losing in 6.  Then in 90, pushed the Pistons to 7 before finally breaking through in 91 when Pippen (and Grant) were in their actual primes. 

The point of this post is not claim Jordan played with great players (though Oakley and Woolridge were fine and Gervin was a HOFer), but merely to point out that you need to be consistent in your analysis.  You can't claim that the Cavs had good players and then ignore similar stats and skilled players on the Bulls or any other team from the past.  The Cavs were a trainwreck for Lebron's first 7 years there.  They made stupid trades, they brought in terrible free agent signings, and they let Boozer out of his contract to try and usurp the rules only for Boozer to leave for Utah.  It was just dumb decision after dumb decision.  They were never going to get Lebron a legitimate running mate.  Heck, the Raptors and Cavs had even worked out a free agency trade for Bosh, but Bosh refused to go to Cleveland.  It took a few years but Dan Gilbert settled into his newer ownership, hired some quality front office people, and generally stayed out of the way but kept the check book open.  They needed Lebron to leave, so they could trade off players, get draft picks, and tank for a few years.  They don't make the Baron Davis trade (which led to Kyrie) if Lebron is still on the team.  They don't end up in a position to draft Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters, etc. if Lebron is still there.  That rebuilding period taught Gilbert and the front office how to actually run a team (Bennett pick notwithstanding).  That created a situation where Lebron could come back and believe they could field an actual winning team.  But he had to leave.  Just like Jordan had to retire for the Bulls to do the same thing.  Jordan came back when the necessary changes had been made for the team to win again (and they still had Pippen which certainly didn't hurt).

[Kernewek]

about Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Verajo, Jeff Mcinnis, Ron Murray, D-West,

Williams and Varejao are the only guys there I would consider to be above average players.  I think LeBron is a pompous blowhard, but his teammates mostly sucked during his first tenure in Cleveland.

Gooden was giving them 14pts/9rebs his first season. Larry Hughes averaged 22pts/6rebs/5ast the year before he joined the Cavs. He was the 2nd scorer behind LeBron his first season there. Hughes was defensive first team in 2005 and led the league in steals. Those are good players.

Someone has to get the stats on a bad team, but these guys are clearly not championship calibre.