Who would you build a franchise around, all-time?

[Roy H.]

You're starting a franchise in three different eras:  1980, 2000, and 2020.

You have access to a time machine, that not only can move both forward and backward in time, but that also "normalizes" a player's advantages to the era they're traveling to.  For instance, a player going from 1960 to 2000 will gain all of 2000's advantages in terms of training, nutrition, travel, etc.  Skills will be adjusted a small degree to account for game changes, but not drastically.  In other words, Karl Malone might be shooting three pointers, but Shaq wouldn't be.  Meanwhile, a player going back in time would likely lose their current advantages and would be normalized to the earlier era.

The player you draft will give your franchise at least 10 seasons, starting with their rookie year.  The team the player is joining is a 45 to 50 win team, with one all-star, one borderline all-star, and two average starters.

Who do you have for...

1980?
2000?
2020?

[Moranis]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

[Who]

Probably Jordan.

Killer instinct + Two way dominance + consistency.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

Probably Jordan.

Killer instinct + Two way dominance + consistency.

Yeah I?m taking Jordan too.

Sounds like we need another historical CS draft this summer 

[Who]

Make a team with your star

- you pick your star
- you get 1 All-Star 1 near All-Star 2 average starters

1980

Trying to avoid the top 10 guys. Kareem, Bird, Doc, Magic, Gervin, Moses, Westphal, Marques Johnson, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson.

All Star

PG = Mike Ray Richardson, Tiny Archibald
SG = David Thompson, Walter Davis, Otis Birdsong
SF = Alex English, Adrian Dantley, John Drew
PF = Dan Roundfield, Elvin Hayes (last ASG)
 C = Jack Sikma, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore

Near All-Star

PG = Norm Nixon, Phil Ford, Mo Cheeks
SG = Ray Williams, Reggie Theus, Brian Winters, World B Free
SF = Scott Wedman, Bernard King, Mike Mitchell, Jamaal Wilkes, Larry Kenon
PF = Mo Lucas, B McAdoo, Cedric Maxwell, Lonnie Shelton, Bobby Jones, Mickey Johnson
 C = Dave Cowens, Robert Parish, Dan Issel

Average Starters

PG = Don Buse, Allen Leavell, Quinn Buckner, Johnny Davis, Tom Henderson, Foots Walker
SG = Chris Ford, Calvin Murphy, Lionel Hollins, John Williamson
SF = Robert Reid, John Johnson, Junior Bridgeman
PF = Dave Greenwood, Rudy T, Kenny Carr, Jim Chones,
 C = Caldwell Jones, Daryl Dawkins, Billy Paultz, Tom Owens, James Edwards, Swen Nater

[Who]

I have a hard time picturing Kareem winning a Championship without a top 10 player next to him. He was unconvincing as a leader in the years in LAL prior to Magic joining the team. And he had Oscar before that in Milwaukee.

[Moranis]

I have a hard time picturing Kareem winning a Championship without a top 10 player next to him. He was unconvincing as a leader in the years in LAL prior to Magic joining the team. And he had Oscar before that in Milwaukee.

That is probably fair and while Oscar had tailed off from his prime, he was still an excellent player during the title season. The Lakers were also bad outside of Kareem until Magic showed up (there was some talent towards the end but it was very young talent in Dantley and Nixon).  The 79 season, Kareem went for 29/12/5 against the Sonics and held Sikma in check. The Sonics won because Gus Williams and Dennis Johnson did whatever they wanted. 

As I said, I'd take Wilt in this as he is the greatest physical specimen the sport has seen.  Size, strength, stamina, speed, etc.  Physically Wilt could do it all and it translated to a highly versatile skill set that would have been easily adaptable to any era.

[tazzmaniac]

2020 would easily be Bird.  He would just utterly dominate the modern game (less physicality, more spacing, taking 9 or 10 3s a game) plus he'd have 40 years of medical and conditioning advancement.  Then factor in his bbiq, mental toughness and drive.  Jokic is dominating and he ain't Bird.  Luka is a top 10 player and he's obviously not Bird. 

[bdm860]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

I think Wilt might be the wrong answer for 2020, but not sure.

While I'm a big fan of the legend and dominance of Wilt, I don't know how it fits into the current game. Not from the shift to the perimeter, but because Wilt's dominance seemed to be that his size and athleticism was just so far ahead of everyone else. The problem with that in the current game is that everyone else has caught up, so while he'd still be a great athlete, and an All-Star, probably an MVP candidate, he wouldn't be as dominate.

While I don't really trust these results (especially for players with long careers who will gain weight throughout their careers), Wilt was listed as 7-1, 275lb on bball-ref. During Wilt's rookie year, the next heaviest guy in the league is 240lb, some teams (like the C's) don't have anybody over 225lb. There's only 1 other 7-footer in the league, and most teams only have 1 player over 6'9". During Wilt's final season, there were only 7 other players who were 7'+, and only Kareem was listed as taller. 1 guy listed at 265lbs, but still several teams with no one over 225lbs.

Wilt's contemporaries were:
Bill Russell, 6-10, 215
Bob Pettit, 6-9, 205
Dolph Schayes, 6-8, 220
Walt Bellamy, 6-11, 225
Nate Thurmond, 6-11, 225
Jerry Lucas, 6-8, 230
Wes Unseld, 6-7, 245
Willis Reed, 6-10, 235
Kareem, 7-2, 225
 
Those were all PF/C, most of them look like they'd hang out on the perimeter now, half of them look like they would be small forwards, while Kareem looks like Chet Holmgren.

Put Wilt in 2020, and he no longer has 3-5 inches and 40-50 pounds on everyone he's matching up with. I think at best he's probably more like Embiid or Giannis (30/12), at worst a prime Dwight Howard. So still an MVP candidate, but a worse version of what he was.

Plus he would be hack-a-shaq'd.

Whereas if you bring Bird or Jerry West into 2020, I think they might have even better careers. Like would West be somewhere with Curry/Harden/Lillard on offensive, but then also be All-D? I see Bird as a combo of the best of Durant/Jokic. Is LeBron in 1980 like a hybrid Magic/Dominque on O, but Michael Jordan on D?

[tenn_smoothie]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

Wilt greatest shot blocker over Russell ?

In my book, Russ is the greatest defensive player of all time and two points prevented is worth just as much as two points scored. Add in Russ as 2nd greatest rebounder ever behind Wilt, a good though not great scorer except when it was needed and the top BBIQ ever and most competitive will-to-win no matter what, maybe in the history of all sports and then the ability to simply get it done 11 out of 12 seasons ('58 injury prevented the opportunity at that title), plus 2 NCAA's and Olympic Gold.

I build my franchise around Bill Russell, all day long.

[Moranis]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

Wilt greatest shot blocker over Russell ?

In my book, Russ is the greatest defensive player of all time and two points prevented is worth just as much as two points scored. Add in Russ as 2nd greatest rebounder ever behind Wilt, a good though not great scorer except when it was needed and the top BBIQ ever and most competitive will-to-win no matter what, maybe in the history of all sports and then the ability to simply get it done 11 out of 12 seasons ('58 injury prevented the opportunity at that title), plus 2 NCAA's and Olympic Gold.

I build my franchise around Bill Russell, all day long.

Rodman is a better rebounder than Bill and perhaps Wilt.  And yes, Wilt was a better shot blocker than Bill, or at least he had more blocks. Someone compiled block numbers for both Bill and Wilt and Wilt had more than Bill.  Wilt once had 23 blocks on Christmas day in 1968.

[Moranis]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

I think Wilt might be the wrong answer for 2020, but not sure.

While I'm a big fan of the legend and dominance of Wilt, I don't know how it fits into the current game. Not from the shift to the perimeter, but because Wilt's dominance seemed to be that his size and athleticism was just so far ahead of everyone else. The problem with that in the current game is that everyone else has caught up, so while he'd still be a great athlete, and an All-Star, probably an MVP candidate, he wouldn't be as dominate.

While I don't really trust these results (especially for players with long careers who will gain weight throughout their careers), Wilt was listed as 7-1, 275lb on bball-ref. During Wilt's rookie year, the next heaviest guy in the league is 240lb, some teams (like the C's) don't have anybody over 225lb. There's only 1 other 7-footer in the league, and most teams only have 1 player over 6'9". During Wilt's final season, there were only 7 other players who were 7'+, and only Kareem was listed as taller. 1 guy listed at 265lbs, but still several teams with no one over 225lbs.

Wilt's contemporaries were:
Bill Russell, 6-10, 215
Bob Pettit, 6-9, 205
Dolph Schayes, 6-8, 220
Walt Bellamy, 6-11, 225
Nate Thurmond, 6-11, 225
Jerry Lucas, 6-8, 230
Wes Unseld, 6-7, 245
Willis Reed, 6-10, 235
Kareem, 7-2, 225
 
Those were all PF/C, most of them look like they'd hang out on the perimeter now, half of them look like they would be small forwards, while Kareem looks like Chet Holmgren.

Put Wilt in 2020, and he no longer has 3-5 inches and 40-50 pounds on everyone he's matching up with. I think at best he's probably more like Embiid or Giannis (30/12), at worst a prime Dwight Howard. So still an MVP candidate, but a worse version of what he was.

Plus he would be hack-a-shaq'd.

Whereas if you bring Bird or Jerry West into 2020, I think they might have even better careers. Like would West be somewhere with Curry/Harden/Lillard on offensive, but then also be All-D? I see Bird as a combo of the best of Durant/Jokic. Is LeBron in 1980 like a hybrid Magic/Dominque on O, but Michael Jordan on D?

While filming Conan together, Arnold has said Wilt was doing things in the gym he had never seen anyone else do.  He was BY FAR the strongest player the sport has ever seen.  He could dunk the ball with players hanging on his arms, while playing 48.5 mpg. He was simply an athletic freak inside a massive body.  Shaq was also a lot bigger than his competition and he dominated.  You can't teach size and size when coupled with other worldly athletic skills always translates.

Also, the average height today is 6'7" with a weight of 215 pounds. In 66-67 (when sixers won title) it was 6'6", 206 pounds.  The league has basically been 6'6" or 6'7" every year since the early 60's and has ranged in weight from 204 pounds (late 70's) to 223 pounds (early 2010's). Wilt is a massive physical specimen in any era

[tazzmaniac]

I'd probably take Wilt under this scenario.  For all decades.  I just think his strength and conditioning would make him the correct player to take. Greatest shot blocker in history. Led the league in assists. Most dominant physical player ever (and it isn't close).  Best rebounder ever. Best scorer ever.  Showed he could adapt and take more a backseat when he had good enough teammates.  Definitely a diva, but most players at that level are.

After Wilt, I think you'd have the usual suspects in MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, and given the existing roster in the scenario Bill makes sense.

I think Wilt might be the wrong answer for 2020, but not sure.

While I'm a big fan of the legend and dominance of Wilt, I don't know how it fits into the current game. Not from the shift to the perimeter, but because Wilt's dominance seemed to be that his size and athleticism was just so far ahead of everyone else. The problem with that in the current game is that everyone else has caught up, so while he'd still be a great athlete, and an All-Star, probably an MVP candidate, he wouldn't be as dominate.

While I don't really trust these results (especially for players with long careers who will gain weight throughout their careers), Wilt was listed as 7-1, 275lb on bball-ref. During Wilt's rookie year, the next heaviest guy in the league is 240lb, some teams (like the C's) don't have anybody over 225lb. There's only 1 other 7-footer in the league, and most teams only have 1 player over 6'9". During Wilt's final season, there were only 7 other players who were 7'+, and only Kareem was listed as taller. 1 guy listed at 265lbs, but still several teams with no one over 225lbs.

Wilt's contemporaries were:
Bill Russell, 6-10, 215
Bob Pettit, 6-9, 205
Dolph Schayes, 6-8, 220
Walt Bellamy, 6-11, 225
Nate Thurmond, 6-11, 225
Jerry Lucas, 6-8, 230
Wes Unseld, 6-7, 245
Willis Reed, 6-10, 235
Kareem, 7-2, 225
 
Those were all PF/C, most of them look like they'd hang out on the perimeter now, half of them look like they would be small forwards, while Kareem looks like Chet Holmgren.

Put Wilt in 2020, and he no longer has 3-5 inches and 40-50 pounds on everyone he's matching up with. I think at best he's probably more like Embiid or Giannis (30/12), at worst a prime Dwight Howard. So still an MVP candidate, but a worse version of what he was.

Plus he would be hack-a-shaq'd.

Whereas if you bring Bird or Jerry West into 2020, I think they might have even better careers. Like would West be somewhere with Curry/Harden/Lillard on offensive, but then also be All-D? I see Bird as a combo of the best of Durant/Jokic. Is LeBron in 1980 like a hybrid Magic/Dominque on O, but Michael Jordan on D?

While filming Conan together, Arnold has said Wilt was doing things in the gym he had never seen anyone else do.  He was BY FAR the strongest player the sport has ever seen.  He could dunk the ball with players hanging on his arms, while playing 48.5 mpg. He was simply an athletic freak inside a massive body.  Shaq was also a lot bigger than his competition and he dominated.  You can't teach size and size when coupled with other worldly athletic skills always translates.

Also, the average height today is 6'7" with a weight of 215 pounds. In 66-67 (when sixers won title) it was 6'6", 206 pounds.  The league has basically been 6'6" or 6'7" every year since the early 60's and has ranged in weight from 204 pounds (late 70's) to 223 pounds (early 2010's). Wilt is a massive physical specimen in any era

He said he'd be Embiid or Giannis who obviously dominate now.  Giannis is the more straightforward comparison.  Is anyone going to take Giannis over a modernized Wilt?   

I like this short Larry Brown story about 43-year-old Wilt in pickup game against a Magic led Laker stacked team.  Funny thing is Brown starts off saying he'll tell a great Magic story. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4UhI-o_Fg 

[Who]

I have a hard time picturing Kareem winning a Championship without a top 10 player next to him. He was unconvincing as a leader in the years in LAL prior to Magic joining the team. And he had Oscar before that in Milwaukee.

That is probably fair and while Oscar had tailed off from his prime, he was still an excellent player during the title season. The Lakers were also bad outside of Kareem until Magic showed up (there was some talent towards the end but it was very young talent in Dantley and Nixon).  The 79 season, Kareem went for 29/12/5 against the Sonics and held Sikma in check. The Sonics won because Gus Williams and Dennis Johnson did whatever they wanted. 

As I said, I'd take Wilt in this as he is the greatest physical specimen the sport has seen.  Size, strength, stamina, speed, etc.  Physically Wilt could do it all and it translated to a highly versatile skill set that would have been easily adaptable to any era.

Those Lakers teams with Kareem before Magic arrived are very interesting. I have 2 teams fairly clear in my mind over that 3 year period.

The 1977 team which had poor guard play. Portland pressuring their guards, forcing turnovers, and largely beating LAL because of it. You felt with better guards they could have won the title that year.

Then either the 1978 or 1979 team. One of those teams was very talented. Norm Nixon = fixed the problem at guard. Adrian Dantley. Jamaal Wilkes. But they lacked a rebounder at PF to play alongside Kareem. That was their weak point.

It is a shame they did not keep Kermit Washington. He would have been perfect next to Kareem on those teams. An all-league level defensive PF and strong rebounder. A physical PF to play next to the finesse center in Kareem.

I am looking up that 1979 team. Yeah, they had a couple of very talented young guys beyond those star names. They had a young Kenny Carr who only got 16mpg. And a young Brad Davis who didn't play much and who ended up being discarded before becoming a star in Dallas. And a young Michael Cooper who didn't play. They also had an old Lou Hudson as a shooter/scorer on the wing. Ron Boone another shooter at SG. Don Ford a quality role player at forward.

Loaded with offensive talent. Very talented squad. Aside from the hole at PF, that was a top team.

They were so close to being a title caliber team. And then they get Magic Johnson! A bit like Dallas getting Cooper Flagg this summer.

[gift]

i think Jordan is the answer here as he showed the ability to excel at playing different ways throughout his career. a few examples: he could dominate with tighter ball handling rules and higher pace in the 80s, could dominate in a slower, slogging defense of the 90s/2000s utilizing an elite post game, and i have no doubt he would develop an above average three point arsenal and excel in the space provided in the 2020s. in my mind, he's almost got all of the ground covered already and the only questions are about the modern game, which I think would benefit him even more than the past.