Jrue the odd man out?

[keevsnick]

I'm just trying to savor this period of Celtics basketball as much as possible and live in the moment. 

This [dang] CBA.

yeah, figures just when we get back to the top of the mountain with the players to stay there a while, the league porks us over with this crappy CBA

It sucks but every team is gonna have to deal with this too. Ultimately, I still think as long as we keep Jaylen/Tatum/White/Porzingis for a while we'll always remain a contender. Yes KP has his injury concerns and won't be counted on for a full season but he's still valuable to this team and it's fine as long as we can also find another young PF/C to go with Kornet/Queta. Maybe a Jrue or Hauser trade can net us a PF/C back as well, doesn't have to be a star just someone who can play it solidly.

Even a team like OKC, when they have to start paying a ton of guys and get into the second apron it could get dicey there too. Remember, the same thing happened to them with Harden/Westbrook/Durant and ultimately they were quick to break it up.

Yeah, not fun to think about, but it?s likely going to be a reality. I really don?t think they should move Sam, though. He compliments the J?s so well and his defense is much better than it used to be. He?s also on a very team friendly deal for the next 4 years, basically through his prime years. In the games he?s started this year, Sam is averaging 13pts/4rebs on shooting splits of 49/46/100. In the final year of Hauser?s contract, he?s making $12M. It?s one of the best contracts in the NBA.

yeah, Hauser's deal isn't the back breaker here. 

C's are either looking it having locked into this crew for another season, CBA consequences be [dang]ed or they're going to have to move a couple of starters to get under the second apron with enough room to bring in serviceable players that won't put the team back over it.  I don't know if this incentivizes the team to use those distant draft picks that slide to the end as trade chips since they won't have a lot of value.  of course, having said that, Baylor's starting to look like a real player lately so may not be the bust he looked like earlier this season.

Trading Hauser doesn't actually make a lot of sense if what you're worried about is the 2nd apron. He only makes 10 million a year, his replacement would be a min guys making 2.5 million, so trading Sam nets you 7.5 million in salary savings. The C's are a projected 17.5 million above the second apron. Trading Hauser doesn't help that problem, you'd still need to trade one of the five starters. In some ways his contract, and Pritchards, are so good that it almost doesn't make sense to trade them. It needs to be a more expensive guy out the door.

[Roy H.]

I'm just trying to savor this period of Celtics basketball as much as possible and live in the moment. 

This [dang] CBA.

yeah, figures just when we get back to the top of the mountain with the players to stay there a while, the league porks us over with this crappy CBA

It sucks but every team is gonna have to deal with this too. Ultimately, I still think as long as we keep Jaylen/Tatum/White/Porzingis for a while we'll always remain a contender. Yes KP has his injury concerns and won't be counted on for a full season but he's still valuable to this team and it's fine as long as we can also find another young PF/C to go with Kornet/Queta. Maybe a Jrue or Hauser trade can net us a PF/C back as well, doesn't have to be a star just someone who can play it solidly.

Even a team like OKC, when they have to start paying a ton of guys and get into the second apron it could get dicey there too. Remember, the same thing happened to them with Harden/Westbrook/Durant and ultimately they were quick to break it up.

Yeah, not fun to think about, but it?s likely going to be a reality. I really don?t think they should move Sam, though. He compliments the J?s so well and his defense is much better than it used to be. He?s also on a very team friendly deal for the next 4 years, basically through his prime years. In the games he?s started this year, Sam is averaging 13pts/4rebs on shooting splits of 49/46/100. In the final year of Hauser?s contract, he?s making $12M. It?s one of the best contracts in the NBA.

yeah, Hauser's deal isn't the back breaker here. 

C's are either looking it having locked into this crew for another season, CBA consequences be [dang]ed or they're going to have to move a couple of starters to get under the second apron with enough room to bring in serviceable players that won't put the team back over it.  I don't know if this incentivizes the team to use those distant draft picks that slide to the end as trade chips since they won't have a lot of value.  of course, having said that, Baylor's starting to look like a real player lately so may not be the bust he looked like earlier this season.

Trading Hauser doesn't actually make a lot of sense if what you're worried about is the 2nd apron. He only makes 10 million a year, his replacement would be a min guys making 2.5 million, so trading Sam nets you 7.5 million in salary savings. The C's are a projected 17.5 million above the second apron. Trading Hauser doesn't help that problem, you'd still need to trade one of the five starters. In some ways his contract, and Pritchards, are so good that it almost doesn't make sense to trade them. It needs to be a more expensive guy out the door.

It's a bit more than that because his replacement could be a guy making the rookie minimum, but yeah, Hauser alone doesn't get us to where we need to be.

[Donoghus]

I'm dreading the think pieces 5-7 years from now "The Celtics Dynasty That Wasn't, Thanks to the 2nd Apron"

Just praying the team stays healthy. If so, they're going back to back and that'll make things down the road a little easier to swallow.

[Roy H.]

I'm dreading the think pieces 5-7 years from now "The Celtics Dynasty That Wasn't, Thanks to the 2nd Apron"

Just praying the team stays healthy. If so, they're going back to back and that'll make things down the road a little easier to swallow.

Yeah.  I think the hope is we go B2B and the ownership group doesn't have the balls to remove a starter from a team going for a 3peat.

[Vermont Green]

So between the follow up from Jambr380 and Keevsnick, 2023-24 being over the 2nd apron doesn't count, 2024-25 (this season) we will be over and counts as the first year, and unless we trade a starter, it is likely we will be over in 2025-26, which will be the second year over the 2nd apron.

Then to get out of it, we would need to get back under the 2nd apron threshold for 3 of seasons 2026-27, 2027-28, 2028-29 and 2029-30, or we start losing draft picks.  In the meantime, the threshold will go up.  But in any case, by the 2026-27 season or earlier, the team will have to shed salary to get and stay under the 2nd apron.

[celticsclay]

The only realistic cap relief option I could see would be trading Jrue Holiday to the Pistons for Isaiah Stewart. This would based on the notion that Horford retires at seasons end.

The Celtics would save 17.4 million with the trade and obviously 9.5 million from Horford retiring, for a total of 26.9 million in salary reduction.

I am surprised how much chatter I see about Al retiring. Everything I have seen (mostly from his family) is that he is not retiring. Did I miss some coverage? I could see him coming back on a minimum like David West did for the warriors (and multiple other players have at end of career)

[Who]

I don't know why folks are expecting Horford to take a paycut next season. He is earning his paycheck. If anything he is underpaid. $10mil a year. Less than the MLE. He already took the paycut. And we are getting a great deal with it.

[perks-a-beast]

What about this trade...

BOS gets: Jabari Smith, Reed Sheppard, Jock Landale
HOU gets: Jrue Holiday & Sam Hauser

Who says no?

[Who]

OKC is going to be an interesting to watch.

Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren are both due extensions after next season. They are both max contract talents.

Hartenstein has 2 more years after this one. The way he is playing, he could be worth a max contract as well. Something will have to give there.

Then there are the expensive role players like Lu Dort ($17-18mil), Caruso ($20mil), I Joe ($12mil), A Wiggins ($8-9mil). All those would have to go if they to hang on to their 4 star players. If they let one of the stars go, then maybe they can keep Lu Dort and one of their bench shooters.

[slightly biased bias fan]

The only realistic cap relief option I could see would be trading Jrue Holiday to the Pistons for Isaiah Stewart. This would based on the notion that Horford retires at seasons end.

The Celtics would save 17.4 million with the trade and obviously 9.5 million from Horford retiring, for a total of 26.9 million in salary reduction.

I am surprised how much chatter I see about Al retiring. Everything I have seen (mostly from his family) is that he is not retiring. Did I miss some coverage? I could see him coming back on a minimum like David West did for the warriors (and multiple other players have at end of career)

His contract is currently expiring, I think that shows Horford is undecided about returning next season.

[Phantom255x]

I love @RodeyTur10's idea when simplified, where ultimately you flip Holiday in a 3-team deal to get back Isaiah Stewart from Detroit, and that 3rd team helps to facilitate with picks/salary where needed. If you want, you can also add Hauser to the trade where Hauser goes to the 3rd team (maybe SAC or Miami) and it's more cap relief for BOS while the pick(s) go to Detroit for taking on Jrue's contract as well.

I've always felt Isaiah Stewart was the perfect Horford replacement down the road and I was bummed to see him sign the extension with Detroit when he did. Stewart is basically a role player for DET right now behind Duren/Harris, and also Ivey when he's healthy. But he's definitely a capable starter and still only 23 years old. He makes 15M a year which is half of Jrue's salary.

Jrue could also be useful for Detroit in the sense that he's a veteran and defense-minded which fits their culture and he could help them in some playoff rounds. Jrue would be going to another playoff team in this scenario as well.

[tenn_smoothie]

Just ridiculous that the Celtics are looking at harsh penalties for doing an excellent job building a championship roster.

[trickybilly]

Just ridiculous that the Celtics are looking at harsh penalties for doing an excellent job building a championship roster.

The supermax is a joke. I love Jaylen, but 65 million dollars is ridiculous.

[Vermont Green]

I don't know why folks are expecting Horford to take a paycut next season. He is earning his paycheck. If anything he is underpaid. $10mil a year. Less than the MLE. He already took the paycut. And we are getting a great deal with it.

The main factor in my mind is that he is a bench player, playing only 60-65 games a year.  Yes, he is valuable as a fill in starter but I see something less than $10m as fair in the current market (cap rules). 

[Kernewek]

Just ridiculous that the Celtics are looking at harsh penalties for doing an excellent job building a championship roster.

The supermax is a joke. I love Jaylen, but 65 million dollars is ridiculous.

For context, it's slightly over one percent of the Celtics' sale price.