Luka to Lakers for AD

[Kernewek]

Funny how these trades go.

Paul Hembekides (Hembo)
@PaulHembo
These pennies-on-the-dollar returns are WILD...

1968: Lakers acquire 31-year-old Wilt Chamberlain for Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrall Imhoff

1975: Lakers acquire 28-year-old Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for Junior Bridgeman, Dave Meyers, Elmore Smith and Brian Winters

1996: Lakers acquire 17-year-old Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac

2008: Lakers acquire 27-year-old Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Marc Gasol, Aaron McKie and two 1st-round picks

2025: Lakers acquire 25-year-old Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, Jalen Hood-Schifino, a 1st-round pick and 2nd-round pick

I would put the Gasol trade in a separate bucket.  Marc Gasol was an immediate starter to the Grizzlies when he came over the following season, and wound up a multi-time All-Star/All-NBA player and DPOY.  He may not have been known to US audiences, but he was the MVP in Spain the season he was traded, and obviously there was a prior comp in his brother at people able to make the jump from Spain the the NBA.  That trade worked fine for both sides.

Not all trades work out like they?re supposed to.  Not on the list is the Dwight Howard trade, which brought with it a lot of outcry as well. Perhaps Luka will not like LA/LeBron and leave in a year.  Or perhaps he will like LA too much and the commitment to conditioning/basketball will continue to waiver at times due to the other opportunities LA offers.  Unlikely, but certainly not impossible from a historical perspective.

I agree with you, for the most part, but it's worth keeping in mind that the best iteration of that team isn't really remembered because Nash's leg injury scuppered it almost immediately (not unlike Hayward-to-the-Celtics) - something that couldn't have been predicted when the responses were happening.

There's always a possibility that Luka could become incapable of playing NBA basketball tomorrow and the trade becomes a heist for Dallas, but it would be silly to presume that's an eventuality.

[green_bballers13]

This is the craziest and biggest sports trade in American major sports history.

Came out of left field.

Lakers get significantly better for the next 5-7 years while Luka is hitting his prime. Sadly, expect a title or two heading that way esp if he can now attract stars and players. Hopefully Giannis or Jokic do not come here but it's now an attractive option for them.

Dallas gets better in the short-term; maybe they'll finally beat Boston with an extremely great defense esp their front court in AD and Gafford. But long term, they will be done for, for many years. They went all in on this trade.

Dallas lost this trade while Lakers won this. If Dallas can't win title this year then yeah they lost it for sure. Lakers get a top 5 player and one of the best offensive players in the world. I hate that the Lakers always get the special treatments.

Sparz's doom and gloom has returned after nearly a week of absence with Celticsstrong down!

I can't disagree more.  Lakers won this trade.  Luka is a heavily flawed and over rated half a player.  He literally plays no D at all.  He is a human turnstile.  Mav's acquired one of the best 2 way players in the league.  Top 10 in both o and D IMHO.  Lakers are going to get much worse, as they were calling for another big to start next to AD before, and now they have ...Max Kleiber.  Mavs are much more balanced, at least once Kyrie gets back.  Kyrie will cover a bunch of Luka's assists, and AD will pick up most of his scoring and exceed his rebounding.  Grimes will pick up a little more of  everything with the increased minutes.

TP! Thank you. I feel like I've been living on the moon. People are calling Luka a top 3 player, yet completely forget that he 1) is out of shape 2) is a defensive liability 3) is too young to be out of shape 4) likes to party like 25 year olds do and 6) is a defensive liability. We have watched him get isolated and bullied on defense many times now.

Now, AD is not a perfect player (mainly due to health) and the Mavs could have gotten a better return, but let's not pretend like Dallas wasn't annoyed that they couldn't get their young player (with lower extremity issues) to lose weight. Your best player can't be so bad at defense.

It's beach season 24/7 in LA, so maybe he joins Lebron's boot camp and fulfills his potential.

[Kernewek]

This is the craziest and biggest sports trade in American major sports history.

Came out of left field.

Lakers get significantly better for the next 5-7 years while Luka is hitting his prime. Sadly, expect a title or two heading that way esp if he can now attract stars and players. Hopefully Giannis or Jokic do not come here but it's now an attractive option for them.

Dallas gets better in the short-term; maybe they'll finally beat Boston with an extremely great defense esp their front court in AD and Gafford. But long term, they will be done for, for many years. They went all in on this trade.

Dallas lost this trade while Lakers won this. If Dallas can't win title this year then yeah they lost it for sure. Lakers get a top 5 player and one of the best offensive players in the world. I hate that the Lakers always get the special treatments.

Sparz's doom and gloom has returned after nearly a week of absence with Celticsstrong down!

I can't disagree more.  Lakers won this trade.  Luka is a heavily flawed and over rated half a player.  He literally plays no D at all.  He is a human turnstile.  Mav's acquired one of the best 2 way players in the league.  Top 10 in both o and D IMHO.  Lakers are going to get much worse, as they were calling for another big to start next to AD before, and now they have ...Max Kleiber.  Mavs are much more balanced, at least once Kyrie gets back.  Kyrie will cover a bunch of Luka's assists, and AD will pick up most of his scoring and exceed his rebounding.  Grimes will pick up a little more of  everything with the increased minutes.

TP! Thank you. I feel like I've been living on the moon. People are calling Luka a top 3 player, yet completely forget that he 1) is out of shape 2) is a defensive liability 3) is too young to be out of shape 4) likes to party like 25 year olds do and 6) is a defensive liability. We have watched him get isolated and bullied on defense many times now.

Now, AD is not a perfect player (mainly due to health) and the Mavs could have gotten a better return, but let's not pretend like Dallas wasn't annoyed that they couldn't get their young player (with lower extremity issues) to lose weight. Your best player can't be so bad at defense.

It's beach season 24/7 in LA, so maybe he joins Lebron's boot camp and fulfills his potential.

Even if you're correctly rating Luka, you should consider that the Lakers win the trade if only because they got a generational talent for absolute peanuts. Guys with that sort of ceiling demand a much higher value in trade most of the time, and 29 other GMs would have brought more back to Dallas for shipping him out.

[Roy H.]

This is the craziest and biggest sports trade in American major sports history.

Came out of left field.

Lakers get significantly better for the next 5-7 years while Luka is hitting his prime. Sadly, expect a title or two heading that way esp if he can now attract stars and players. Hopefully Giannis or Jokic do not come here but it's now an attractive option for them.

Dallas gets better in the short-term; maybe they'll finally beat Boston with an extremely great defense esp their front court in AD and Gafford. But long term, they will be done for, for many years. They went all in on this trade.

Dallas lost this trade while Lakers won this. If Dallas can't win title this year then yeah they lost it for sure. Lakers get a top 5 player and one of the best offensive players in the world. I hate that the Lakers always get the special treatments.

Sparz's doom and gloom has returned after nearly a week of absence with Celticsstrong down!

I can't disagree more.  Lakers won this trade.  Luka is a heavily flawed and over rated half a player.  He literally plays no D at all.  He is a human turnstile.  Mav's acquired one of the best 2 way players in the league.  Top 10 in both o and D IMHO.  Lakers are going to get much worse, as they were calling for another big to start next to AD before, and now they have ...Max Kleiber.  Mavs are much more balanced, at least once Kyrie gets back.  Kyrie will cover a bunch of Luka's assists, and AD will pick up most of his scoring and exceed his rebounding.  Grimes will pick up a little more of  everything with the increased minutes.

TP! Thank you. I feel like I've been living on the moon. People are calling Luka a top 3 player, yet completely forget that he 1) is out of shape 2) is a defensive liability 3) is too young to be out of shape 4) likes to party like 25 year olds do and 6) is a defensive liability. We have watched him get isolated and bullied on defense many times now.

Now, AD is not a perfect player (mainly due to health) and the Mavs could have gotten a better return, but let's not pretend like Dallas wasn't annoyed that they couldn't get their young player (with lower extremity issues) to lose weight. Your best player can't be so bad at defense.

It's beach season 24/7 in LA, so maybe he joins Lebron's boot camp and fulfills his potential.

At its core, Dallas traded a 26 year old MVP candidate for an injury prone 32 year old All-NBA player.

Davis isn't "absolute peanuts" as described above, but he's seemingly got a pretty limited shelf life.

[green_bballers13]

This is the craziest and biggest sports trade in American major sports history.

Came out of left field.

Lakers get significantly better for the next 5-7 years while Luka is hitting his prime. Sadly, expect a title or two heading that way esp if he can now attract stars and players. Hopefully Giannis or Jokic do not come here but it's now an attractive option for them.

Dallas gets better in the short-term; maybe they'll finally beat Boston with an extremely great defense esp their front court in AD and Gafford. But long term, they will be done for, for many years. They went all in on this trade.

Dallas lost this trade while Lakers won this. If Dallas can't win title this year then yeah they lost it for sure. Lakers get a top 5 player and one of the best offensive players in the world. I hate that the Lakers always get the special treatments.

Sparz's doom and gloom has returned after nearly a week of absence with Celticsstrong down!

I can't disagree more.  Lakers won this trade.  Luka is a heavily flawed and over rated half a player.  He literally plays no D at all.  He is a human turnstile.  Mav's acquired one of the best 2 way players in the league.  Top 10 in both o and D IMHO.  Lakers are going to get much worse, as they were calling for another big to start next to AD before, and now they have ...Max Kleiber.  Mavs are much more balanced, at least once Kyrie gets back.  Kyrie will cover a bunch of Luka's assists, and AD will pick up most of his scoring and exceed his rebounding.  Grimes will pick up a little more of  everything with the increased minutes.

TP! Thank you. I feel like I've been living on the moon. People are calling Luka a top 3 player, yet completely forget that he 1) is out of shape 2) is a defensive liability 3) is too young to be out of shape 4) likes to party like 25 year olds do and 6) is a defensive liability. We have watched him get isolated and bullied on defense many times now.

Now, AD is not a perfect player (mainly due to health) and the Mavs could have gotten a better return, but let's not pretend like Dallas wasn't annoyed that they couldn't get their young player (with lower extremity issues) to lose weight. Your best player can't be so bad at defense.

It's beach season 24/7 in LA, so maybe he joins Lebron's boot camp and fulfills his potential.

At its core, Dallas traded a 26 year old MVP candidate for an injury prone 32 year old All-NBA player.

Davis isn't "absolute peanuts" as described above, but he's seemingly got a pretty limited shelf life.

Right- I do think the Mavs got a bad return, only because AD is 32. AD is a very good player when healthy, and can help unlock Lively's potential as a mentor and teammate.

Luka is incredibly talented and has a ton of potential. Doesn't the fact that he can't stay in shape or play defense at 25 say something about the likelihood of him reaching his potential? Is he going to get quicker as he ages?

[Kernewek]

That's a misrepresentation, though - it's not that AD being the core of the return makes this trade bad, it's the absence of everything else. Look at the equivalent returns for players of Doncic's calibre (when they've been traded), then compare that to what Dallas got from LA. Even if the front office wanted him out, the return is lacking.

[Who]

That's a misrepresentation, though - it's not that AD being the core of the return makes this trade bad, it's the absence of everything else. Look at the equivalent returns for players of Doncic's calibre (when they've been traded), then compare that to what Dallas got from LA. Even if the front office wanted him out, the return is lacking.

Brian Windhorst was making this point on ESPN.

He couldn't get over that Dallas did not get that 2nd 1st round pick that LAL had to offer. The one far off in the future. Or Austin Reaves. But at least that 2nd 1st rounder since adding Reaves may have made matching salaries too difficult to do.

The Mavs did not even get the max LAL could offer. They left so much on the table. That is what was burning Windhorst.

[Donoghus]

That's a misrepresentation, though - it's not that AD being the core of the return makes this trade bad, it's the absence of everything else. Look at the equivalent returns for players of Doncic's calibre (when they've been traded), then compare that to what Dallas got from LA. Even if the front office wanted him out, the return is lacking.

Bingo.  The return is a joke. 

[Roy H.]

This is the craziest and biggest sports trade in American major sports history.

Came out of left field.

Lakers get significantly better for the next 5-7 years while Luka is hitting his prime. Sadly, expect a title or two heading that way esp if he can now attract stars and players. Hopefully Giannis or Jokic do not come here but it's now an attractive option for them.

Dallas gets better in the short-term; maybe they'll finally beat Boston with an extremely great defense esp their front court in AD and Gafford. But long term, they will be done for, for many years. They went all in on this trade.

Dallas lost this trade while Lakers won this. If Dallas can't win title this year then yeah they lost it for sure. Lakers get a top 5 player and one of the best offensive players in the world. I hate that the Lakers always get the special treatments.

Sparz's doom and gloom has returned after nearly a week of absence with Celticsstrong down!

I can't disagree more.  Lakers won this trade.  Luka is a heavily flawed and over rated half a player.  He literally plays no D at all.  He is a human turnstile.  Mav's acquired one of the best 2 way players in the league.  Top 10 in both o and D IMHO.  Lakers are going to get much worse, as they were calling for another big to start next to AD before, and now they have ...Max Kleiber.  Mavs are much more balanced, at least once Kyrie gets back.  Kyrie will cover a bunch of Luka's assists, and AD will pick up most of his scoring and exceed his rebounding.  Grimes will pick up a little more of  everything with the increased minutes.

TP! Thank you. I feel like I've been living on the moon. People are calling Luka a top 3 player, yet completely forget that he 1) is out of shape 2) is a defensive liability 3) is too young to be out of shape 4) likes to party like 25 year olds do and 6) is a defensive liability. We have watched him get isolated and bullied on defense many times now.

Now, AD is not a perfect player (mainly due to health) and the Mavs could have gotten a better return, but let's not pretend like Dallas wasn't annoyed that they couldn't get their young player (with lower extremity issues) to lose weight. Your best player can't be so bad at defense.

It's beach season 24/7 in LA, so maybe he joins Lebron's boot camp and fulfills his potential.

At its core, Dallas traded a 26 year old MVP candidate for an injury prone 32 year old All-NBA player.

Davis isn't "absolute peanuts" as described above, but he's seemingly got a pretty limited shelf life.

Right- I do think the Mavs got a bad return, only because AD is 32. AD is a very good player when healthy, and can help unlock Lively's potential as a mentor and teammate.

Luka is incredibly talented and has a ton of potential. Doesn't the fact that he can't stay in shape or play defense at 25 say something about the likelihood of him reaching his potential? Is he going to get quicker as he ages?

I get Dallas's concerns.  They were allegedly worried about a Joel Embiid situation, which I understand.

I just don't get why they didn't start a trade auction.  Hell, I still don't understand why Memphis didn't do an auction for Pau Gasol.  It seems incredibly counter-productive to hyper focus on one team in trade negotiations.

[Vermont Green]

Doesn't the fact that he can't stay in shape or play defense at 25 say something about the likelihood of him reaching his potential? Is he going to get quicker as he ages?

This of course is the key question.  Last season, Luke was a little out of shape/under conditioned and a little banged up and he was still able to take a team that featured Kyrie Irving and PJ Washington as the #2 and #3 stars to the finals.  If he can stay even close to in shape/healthy, he is an elite player who can carry a title contending team.  Davis is not that and never was that.  He is an older all star, all pro level player with his own durability issues.

DAL made the calculation that there was too much risk of Luka not staying in shape, not staying healthy to give a $350M contract to.  I am not sure how much of a factor that Luka's defense really is or should be.  Luka played enough defense to get a mediocre team to the finals.  Last season, DAL played decent defense in the playoffs (better than LAL based on DRtg).

So DAL may now have a better defense but I do not buy that DAL has a better team.  Davis, Irving, Thompson is not a title contending big 3 in my mind.  We'll see.  If Davis stays healthy, it is a solid team for sure.  Wouldn't it be fun if LAL and DAL meet in the playoffs?  Think that would be good for ratings?  Who do people think would win this series?

[RMO]

Another point worth mentioning is that Dallas was working under a totally different set of economic circumstances when it comes to Luka's extension over the summer.  Offering him anything less than the supermax would be a spit in the face and they would risk losing him for nothing.  The economic burden, while still quite large, is significantly less for any team trading for him when it comes to resigning.

That still doesn't excuse the utter incompetence of not getting more draft picks out of this.

[slightly biased bias fan]

There are so many layers to this blame cake, most of which we do not have the all the information to make a completely informed opinion.

If I look at it from the Mavs point of view, this deal actually makes sense.

In the West, Oklahoma are only going to get better as each season passes. They have a stock pile of picks and their star players are still young. Same goes for San Antonio & Wembanyama.

The next few of seasons may be the Mavs best chance at winning a title & Doncic does not seem to align with their urgency.

Irving is 32 and will be out of contract after next season. They would not be able to replace his production if he walked in free agency and no matter what Doncic said, he may have walked in free agency too if Dallas struggled without Irving.

[green_bballers13]

Doesn't the fact that he can't stay in shape or play defense at 25 say something about the likelihood of him reaching his potential? Is he going to get quicker as he ages?

This of course is the key question.  Last season, Luke was a little out of shape/under conditioned and a little banged up and he was still able to take a team that featured Kyrie Irving and PJ Washington as the #2 and #3 stars to the finals.  If he can stay even close to in shape/healthy, he is an elite player who can carry a title contending team.  Davis is not that and never was that.  He is an older all star, all pro level player with his own durability issues.

DAL made the calculation that there was too much risk of Luka not staying in shape, not staying healthy to give a $350M contract to.  I am not sure how much of a factor that Luka's defense really is or should be.  Luka played enough defense to get a mediocre team to the finals.  Last season, DAL played decent defense in the playoffs (better than LAL based on DRtg).

So DAL may now have a better defense but I do not buy that DAL has a better team.  Davis, Irving, Thompson is not a title contending big 3 in my mind.  We'll see.  If Davis stays healthy, it is a solid team for sure.  Wouldn't it be fun if LAL and DAL meet in the playoffs?  Think that would be good for ratings?  Who do people think would win this series?

I'm not well-versed on the salary side. Is there any chance that Dallas could match salaries for Jimmy Buckets, or make that work with a third team?

Kyrie
Klay
Butler
Davis
Lively

[Kernewek]

Another point worth mentioning is that Dallas was working under a totally different set of economic circumstances when it comes to Luka's extension over the summer.  Offering him anything less than the supermax would be a spit in the face and they would risk losing him for nothing.  The economic burden, while still quite large, is significantly less for any team trading for him when it comes to resigning.

That still doesn't excuse the utter incompetence of not getting more draft picks out of this.

On the contrary, the new Dallas ownership not wanting to pay Luka the supermax is the most likely impetus for this trade, I think, and helps to explain why they were willing to let him go for so little.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Another point worth mentioning is that Dallas was working under a totally different set of economic circumstances when it comes to Luka's extension over the summer.  Offering him anything less than the supermax would be a spit in the face and they would risk losing him for nothing.  The economic burden, while still quite large, is significantly less for any team trading for him when it comes to resigning.

That still doesn't excuse the utter incompetence of not getting more draft picks out of this.

On the contrary, the new Dallas ownership not wanting to pay Luka the supermax is the most likely impetus for this trade, I think, and helps to explain why they were willing to let him go for so little.

I think it is more to do with bargaining power.

Rob Palenka has publicly stated that Nico Harrison called him weeks ago about trading for Doncic. Right away the Lakers know they are the only team Dallas is talking to and Davis is the only player they want. It makes sense that the Lakers would low ball the Mavs.

Unfortunately for the Mavs, Davis was probably the only attainable superstar right now. Go through yourself and look at every team and try and find attainable equal value for Doncic, it does not exist.