Joe Mazz

[green_bballers13]

Thoughts on our guy halfway through season 3? I think it is funny how the media used to portray him as aloof or even dumb, and now its seems like he's a brilliant comedian. What is the real answer? Is this guy bad, decent, good, or even great?!?!

[droopdog7]

At this point, he and the team will only be judged by the playoffs.

[Donoghus]

Well, he's 111 games over .500 including playoffs and has won an NBA title. 

So, I'd say he's doing something right.

[green_bballers13]

At this point, he and the team will only be judged by the playoffs.

So then you think he's great?

I'm not sure that we can judge a person by one metric. The team's talent definitely played into last year's championship.

[Neurotic Guy]

Well, he's 111 games over .500 including playoffs and has won an NBA title. 

So, I'd say he's doing something right.

Yes. He also has a great roster.  I like Joe generally but really have gotten to the point of disliking the ultra heavy reliance on the three.  I could do with far less on Tatum and Brown dribble dribble.  And maybe Joe is counting on some kind of regression (or would it be progression) to the mean when it comes to end of quarter Tatum attempts.  Maybe that will happen in the playoffs after going another O-40 or so.

[Neurotic Guy]

WT

[green_bballers13]

Well, he's 111 games over .500 including playoffs and has won an NBA title. 

So, I'd say he's doing something right.

Yes. He also has a great roster.  I like Joe generally but really have gotten to the point of disliking the ultra heavy reliance on the three.  I could do with far less on Tatum and Brown dribble dribble.  And maybe Joe is counting on some kind of regression (or would it be progression) to the mean when it comes to end of quarter Tatum attempts.  Maybe that will happen in the playoffs after going another O-40 or so.

Pretty cool that Tatum can go 0-100 and the Celtics can still win.

[droopdog7]

At this point, he and the team will only be judged by the playoffs.

So then you think he's great?

I'm not sure that we can judge a person by one metric. The team's talent definitely played into last year's championship.

It's not important to me what kind of coach Mazzulla is independent of the team.  So team success is his success.  I don't separate the two.

[Roy H.]

Year One:  Underachieved, in both in-game management and motivation.  The team failed to meet expectations.

Year Two:  Exceeded expectations in motivation; in-game management better but a work in progress.  Overall the team met or exceeded expectations.

Year Three:  Underachieving in motivation.  In-game management (particularly rotations) seems to have regressed.  Whether we meet expectations is TBD.

I agree with droopdog:  the motivation issue in the regular season isn't really a problem so long as it's there in the playoffs.

If Joe has the team locked-in during the playoffs, it validates last year and cements him as a very good coach.  If the team looks like 2023 in the playoffs (blowing leads, not coming out ready to play, not playing consistent top-tier defense, losing to inferior teams ), then doubts will remain.

[Donoghus]

Year One:  Underachieved, in both in-game management and motivation.  The team failed to meet expectations.

Year Two:  Exceeded expectations in motivation; in-game management better but a work in progress.  Overall the team met or exceeded expectations.

Year Three:  Underachieving in motivation.  In-game management (particularly rotations) seems to have regressed.  Whether we meet expectations is TBD.

I agree with droopdog:  the motivation issue in the regular season isn't really a problem so long as it's there in the playoffs.

If Joe has the team locked-in during the playoffs, it validates last year and cements him as a very good coach.  If the team looks like 2023 in the playoffs (blowing leads, not coming out ready to play, not playing consistent top-tier defense, losing to inferior teams ), then doubts will remain.

Yeah, I think this is fair.  Let's face it, at this point, success is going to be measured in the playoffs. The bar is high and justifiably so.

[green_bballers13]

Year One:  Underachieved, in both in-game management and motivation.  The team failed to meet expectations.

Year Two:  Exceeded expectations in motivation; in-game management better but a work in progress.  Overall the team met or exceeded expectations.

Year Three:  Underachieving in motivation.  In-game management (particularly rotations) seems to have regressed.  Whether we meet expectations is TBD.

I agree with droopdog:  the motivation issue in the regular season isn't really a problem so long as it's there in the playoffs.

If Joe has the team locked-in during the playoffs, it validates last year and cements him as a very good coach.  If the team looks like 2023 in the playoffs (blowing leads, not coming out ready to play, not playing consistent top-tier defense, losing to inferior teams ), then doubts will remain.

Does he need to win back to back? What if the Celtics lose to OKC in the finals, or CLE in the ECF? I think both of those teams are good, and could see us losing to either over 7 games.

With so many variables at play, I find it hard to determine a coach's value based solely on one metric: championships.

[Vermont Green]

I have said it many times, coaches get too much credit for team success and too much blame for team failure.  The narrative a year ago was that the team will never win a championship with Mazzulla as the coach.  Ooopps.  Now it seems like if the team doesn't win a championship again, the narrative is going to be "see, we told you Mazzulla was a bad coach".

Mazzulla is probably a top 5 coach in the league right now, just a WAG.  It is very hard to rate or rank coaches independent of the teams they are coaching.  If Mazzulla does happen to win 2 in a row, he will join some pretty elite all time company.

[Roy H.]

Year One:  Underachieved, in both in-game management and motivation.  The team failed to meet expectations.

Year Two:  Exceeded expectations in motivation; in-game management better but a work in progress.  Overall the team met or exceeded expectations.

Year Three:  Underachieving in motivation.  In-game management (particularly rotations) seems to have regressed.  Whether we meet expectations is TBD.

I agree with droopdog:  the motivation issue in the regular season isn't really a problem so long as it's there in the playoffs.

If Joe has the team locked-in during the playoffs, it validates last year and cements him as a very good coach.  If the team looks like 2023 in the playoffs (blowing leads, not coming out ready to play, not playing consistent top-tier defense, losing to inferior teams ), then doubts will remain.

Does he need to win back to back? What if the Celtics lose to OKC in the finals, or CLE in the ECF? I think both of those teams are good, and could see us losing to either over 7 games.

With so many variables at play, I find it hard to determine a coach's value based solely on one metric: championships.

Like I said, it depends on whether the team is locked-in. 

[Donoghus]

Mazz isn't above criticism.  None of these coaches are.  It was the same way with Doc on these boards in the seasons following the '08 championship.  Fair or not fair, these guys are held to high expectations.  A lot of us expect more than one title out of this group. 

Just like any other coach, Mazz is going to have his moments good & bad.  He's certainly not infallible and there are plenty of criticisms of him on here that are completely fair.  Then there are other ones that border on ridiculous or just laughable. 

He's won a title so far so he's always going to be appreciated for that.  However, this team's core in its prime right now and people don't want that same feeling as the New Three era where the one title was nice but there should've been more. 

Constructive criticism of Mazz is certainly valid.  And most of it is coming from a good place which is the passion of this fanbase who just want to see the team succeed. If the coaching staff is making mistakes or perceived mistakes, there gonna get called out on it.  If people can't handle criticism of Mazz or anyone else, that's their own problem.

[Vermont Green]

Mazz isn't above criticism.  None of these coaches are.  It was the same way with Doc on these boards in the seasons following the '08 championship.  Fair or not fair, these guys are held to high expectations.  A lot of us expect more than one title out of this group. 

Just like any other coach, Mazz is going to have his moments good & bad.  He's certainly not infallible and there are plenty of criticisms of him on here that are completely fair.  Then there are other ones that border on ridiculous or just laughable. 

He's won a title so far so he's always going to be appreciated for that.  However, this team's core in its prime right now and people don't want that same feeling as the New Three era where the one title was nice but there should've been more. 

Constructive criticism of Mazz is certainly valid.  And most of it is coming from a good place which is the passion of this fanbase who just want to see the team succeed. If the coaching staff is making mistakes or perceived mistakes, there gonna get called out on it.  If people can't handle criticism of Mazz or anyone else, that's their own problem.

I agree with all of this.  I think Mazzulla is struggling a bit to figure out how to motivate this team to a repeat.  When a team this good goes 8-8 in a stretch and looks as bad as it did at times, the coach should be criticized too.  All coaches have a "shelf life".  Mazzulla's shelf life may be shorter than most due to his eccentricities.  But he proved he is a championship coach.  That is something no matter how good the team is.  Now the bar is win again or you have underachieved.

If the Celtics do not repeat, criticism of the coach will be fair.  But just like it was more players than coach when they won the title, it will be more players than coach if they don't repeat.

So is it just Jackson, Riley, Kerr, and Spoelstra who have won back to back recently?  Popovich never won 2 in a row for example.  There have been a lot of coaches in that time who have not won any titles.  Those  back to back winning coaches all had really good players.  Jordan, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Curry, Durant, LeBron, Wade, and so on.  All top 10 or so all time players.  Mazzulla won 1 title with Tatum and Brown.  Probably not even top 25 all time.