Patriots 2025-26 Offseason Discussion

[Vermont Green]

I thought I would start a clean thread for what should be an eventful offseason.  The draft, coaching hire, Free Agents, and so on.

As to the draft, I might be being hopeful, but I see TEN and CLE as both picking QBs.  That leaves the NYG to decide the Pats fate to some extent.  I see a chance they take Abdul Carter at 3 and not Hunter.  They took a WR very high last draft (Malik Nabers).

So if Hunter is available at #4, is that the pick?  Or do you look at OT or DT?  If Hunter is taken at #3, I am wondering if there would be trade interest for Carter.  I predict he is going to become more hyped as the pre-draft "season" goes on.  Carter may end up being the pick and that is probably OK.  I am not real big on specialty edge rushers, you need to do more than that, but he may be good enough to warrant the high pick.

[Phantom255x]

I would take Hunter or Carter at #4, period. If either is available, take them. If both happen to be there, take Hunter, he's still the BPA between the two guys.

Regardless, in FA they have to go sign Tee Higgins, and then an OT like Robinson or Staley.

Draft another O-lineman with the 2nd round pick.

If you take Hunter, then go get someone like Khalil Mack or Josh Sweat in FA.

Sounds like a lot but they have over 100M in cap space, so they really have no excuses IMO.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I would take Hunter or Carter at #4, period. If either is available, take them. If both happen to be there, take Hunter, he's still the BPA between the two guys.

Regardless, in FA they have to go sign Tee Higgins, and then an OT like Robinson or Staley.

Draft another O-lineman with the 2nd round pick.

If you take Hunter, then go get someone like Khalil Mack or Josh Sweat in FA.

Sounds like a lot but they have over 100M in cap space, so they really have no excuses IMO.

I'm not sure what to make of Higgins as a No. 1 receiver. Do you think he has the chops?

[Phantom255x]

I would take Hunter or Carter at #4, period. If either is available, take them. If both happen to be there, take Hunter, he's still the BPA between the two guys.

Regardless, in FA they have to go sign Tee Higgins, and then an OT like Robinson or Staley.

Draft another O-lineman with the 2nd round pick.

If you take Hunter, then go get someone like Khalil Mack or Josh Sweat in FA.

Sounds like a lot but they have over 100M in cap space, so they really have no excuses IMO.

I'm not sure what to make of Higgins as a No. 1 receiver. Do you think he has the chops?

I don't think he's a true #1 but he's still a helluva lot better than anything we have. Like by a massive margin lol. For reference, I frankly don't think Calvin Ridley is a true #1 either, and they were hard after him last season. He's a great player. Higgins to me is better than him. Aiyuk (another NE target last offseason) and Higgins to me aren't far off from a talent perspective. But what I love is that Higgins is 25 years old still and has great height (6' 4").

With these young QBs you need to give them some alpha options. Look at Jalen Hurts getting Smith + Brown, Tua getting Hill + Waddle, Burrow getting Chase + Higgins, Jayden Daniels having McLaurin, Caleb Williams having Moore + Odunze, etc. Give Maye someone like Higgins alongside Douglas and Henry.

The next 4 best WRs IMO are Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, and Hopkins. You have interest in them? I love Godwin and the others are nice but right now none of them are a #1 either, and frankly some might not even be a #2 at their current age.

Now there is also the option of trading for someone who is a year away from needing a contract and probably won't get it from their current team, such as AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. I imagine you could acquire someone like Metcalf for a 2nd round pick and a future mid-rounder. You'd then have to extend them beyond 2025 but it's an intriguing route to go.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I would take Hunter or Carter at #4, period. If either is available, take them. If both happen to be there, take Hunter, he's still the BPA between the two guys.

Regardless, in FA they have to go sign Tee Higgins, and then an OT like Robinson or Staley.

Draft another O-lineman with the 2nd round pick.

If you take Hunter, then go get someone like Khalil Mack or Josh Sweat in FA.

Sounds like a lot but they have over 100M in cap space, so they really have no excuses IMO.

I'm not sure what to make of Higgins as a No. 1 receiver. Do you think he has the chops?

I don't think he's a true #1 but he's still a helluva lot better than anything we have. Like by a massive margin lol. For reference, I frankly don't think Calvin Ridley is a true #1 either, and they were hard after him last season. He's a great player. Higgins to me is better than him. Aiyuk and Higgins to me aren't far off from a talent perspective. But what I love is that Higgins is 25 years old still and has great height (6' 4")

The next 4 best WRs IMO are Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, and Hopkins.

Now there is also the option of trading for someone who is a year away from needing a contract and probably won't get it from their current team, such as AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. I imagine you could acquire someone like Metcalf for a 2nd round pick and a future mid-rounder.

I gotcha. That's kinda what I was thinking, too?not a true No. 1 but very good, and far better than the current crop. It sure would be nice to get, say, Higgins and Cooper, or something along those lines, backed by Bourne/Boutte/Douglas.

[Phantom255x]

I would take Hunter or Carter at #4, period. If either is available, take them. If both happen to be there, take Hunter, he's still the BPA between the two guys.

Regardless, in FA they have to go sign Tee Higgins, and then an OT like Robinson or Staley.

Draft another O-lineman with the 2nd round pick.

If you take Hunter, then go get someone like Khalil Mack or Josh Sweat in FA.

Sounds like a lot but they have over 100M in cap space, so they really have no excuses IMO.

I'm not sure what to make of Higgins as a No. 1 receiver. Do you think he has the chops?

I don't think he's a true #1 but he's still a helluva lot better than anything we have. Like by a massive margin lol. For reference, I frankly don't think Calvin Ridley is a true #1 either, and they were hard after him last season. He's a great player. Higgins to me is better than him. Aiyuk and Higgins to me aren't far off from a talent perspective. But what I love is that Higgins is 25 years old still and has great height (6' 4")

The next 4 best WRs IMO are Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, and Hopkins.

Now there is also the option of trading for someone who is a year away from needing a contract and probably won't get it from their current team, such as AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. I imagine you could acquire someone like Metcalf for a 2nd round pick and a future mid-rounder.

I gotcha. That's kinda what I was thinking, too?not a true No. 1 but very good, and far better than the current crop. It sure would be nice to get, say, Higgins and Cooper, or something along those lines, backed by Bourne/Boutte/Douglas.

I added some more stuff to my recent post, but yeah I think they need 2 WRs. 1 has to be an elite option, such as a Higgins/Metcalf/AJ Brown type. But then get another solid secondary option. They don't have to pay another top-WR like Godwin but just find a solid #2, maybe Brandin Cooks or Keenan Allen?

Douglas is not a #1 receiver but if you have two guys ahead of him and he's a #3 WR, I think he'll be awesome. It's one of those things where a lot of these guys are playing in spots they just aren't capable of, but once you add talent and drop them a bit in the depth chart they will thrive.

I may be in the minority but I'm not giving up on Polk. Maybe he can be like Boutte and have a bit of a jump and turn into a decent 4th or 5th receiver? Baker on the other hand I think is a lost cause, it seems there's also way too many off-field distractions and drama with him. Apparently he wasn't even doing well in practice whereas Polk at least was and had a solid preseason. 

[Vermont Green]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

[Phantom255x]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

[kraidstar]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Glad to see Wolf and Kraft's talking points have filtered out into the fandom.

NFL coaching is wildly overrated. Drake Maye was conspicuously not affected by "the coaching." Nor was Joe Milton. I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. But, by god, talent matters SO MUCH MORE. These guys have been playing (or coaching) football their whole lives and aren't ignorant rubes.

But it's a lot easier  to sell a coach as a scapegoat - or as an infallible genius - than it is to sell nuance and organizational accountability.

[kraidstar]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

[Phantom255x]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

It's not just them, there's the WR coach, the head coach, and all the support staff.

I agree with a lot of what you said above^. I'm not at all saying Polk is definitely an elite talent being hindered by this system. But I personally also believe the team and coaches aren't putting these guys in the best position to succeed given their skillsets.

McConkey is without a doubt a much, much better than Polk. Pats and Wolf deserve all the blame for trading down with that pick and taking Polk. But do I think McConkey would be as productive and elite here as he is currently with the Chargers? I truthfully don't. Chargers have Harbaugh, and Sanjay Lal at OC who is very experienced at what he does. The Chargers have a pretty good history of developing WRs. So does a team like Pittsburgh.

To be clear, I think Wolf should already be gone. Hire a new, more experienced GM to work with Vrabel or whoever the new HC is. Nuke the entire front office operations including Matt Groh, the current scouts, etc.

[Vermont Green]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

It's not just them, there's the WR coach, the head coach, and all the support staff.

I agree with a lot of what you said above^. I'm not at all saying Polk is definitely an elite talent being hindered by this system. But I personally also believe the team and coaches aren't putting these guys in the best position to succeed given their skillsets.

McConkey is without a doubt a much, much better than Polk. Pats and Wolf deserve all the blame for trading down with that pick and taking Polk. But do I think McConkey would be as productive and elite here as he is currently with the Chargers? I truthfully don't. Chargers have Harbaugh, and Sanjay Lal at OC who is very experienced at what he does. The Chargers have a pretty good history of developing WRs. So does a team like Pittsburgh.

To be clear, I think Wolf should already be gone. Hire a new, more experienced GM to work with Vrabel or whoever the new HC is. Nuke the entire front office operations including Matt Groh, the current scouts, etc.

My original question was not intended to be a defense of Wolf.  I am not impressed with his work so far.  Just wondering if Polk maybe isn?t as bad as he seems after one season on a historically bad team. 

[Phantom255x]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

It's not just them, there's the WR coach, the head coach, and all the support staff.

I agree with a lot of what you said above^. I'm not at all saying Polk is definitely an elite talent being hindered by this system. But I personally also believe the team and coaches aren't putting these guys in the best position to succeed given their skillsets.

McConkey is without a doubt a much, much better than Polk. Pats and Wolf deserve all the blame for trading down with that pick and taking Polk. But do I think McConkey would be as productive and elite here as he is currently with the Chargers? I truthfully don't. Chargers have Harbaugh, and Sanjay Lal at OC who is very experienced at what he does. The Chargers have a pretty good history of developing WRs. So does a team like Pittsburgh.

To be clear, I think Wolf should already be gone. Hire a new, more experienced GM to work with Vrabel or whoever the new HC is. Nuke the entire front office operations including Matt Groh, the current scouts, etc.

My original question was not intended to be a defense of Wolf.  I am not impressed with his work so far.  Just wondering if Polk maybe isn?t as bad as he seems after one season on a historically bad team.

I'd give him another shot. I think he can still potentially pan out to be a solid 4th or 5th "possession receiver". Nothing flashy but maybe someone who can be a "go to guy" from time to time. Boutte was similar and he found more of a role this season.

I do think Baker is a lost cause though, there's off-field drama with him and evidently he seemed to not even be able to practice because he made a lot of mistakes and had trouble getting used to the system.

[Goldstar88]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Not sure what the ?System? had to do with Polk dropping pass after pass. He was just bad. Good news is that it seems he can only improve.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think Boutte and Douglas have shown enough to suggest that they?d benefit from being surpassed on the depth chart.  Polk not so much.  Weve seen an example in Jacoby Meyers of a player who made his value known regardless of system or talent at QB.  We also have the example of Jonnu Smith who excelled (at TE) when on a team with elite receivers.  The issue with Polk is that he didn?t show much at all that would be cause for excitement.  Is he Carsen Edwards or is he Sam Hauser?  Can?t rule out either.