Patriots 2025-26 Offseason Discussion

[kraidstar]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

It's not just them, there's the WR coach, the head coach, and all the support staff.

I agree with a lot of what you said above^. I'm not at all saying Polk is definitely an elite talent being hindered by this system. But I personally also believe the team and coaches aren't putting these guys in the best position to succeed given their skillsets.

McConkey is without a doubt a much, much better than Polk. Pats and Wolf deserve all the blame for trading down with that pick and taking Polk. But do I think McConkey would be as productive and elite here as he is currently with the Chargers? I truthfully don't. Chargers have Harbaugh, and Sanjay Lal at OC who is very experienced at what he does. The Chargers have a pretty good history of developing WRs. So does a team like Pittsburgh.

To be clear, I think Wolf should already be gone. Hire a new, more experienced GM to work with Vrabel or whoever the new HC is. Nuke the entire front office operations including Matt Groh, the current scouts, etc.

My original question was not intended to be a defense of Wolf.  I am not impressed with his work so far.  Just wondering if Polk maybe isn?t as bad as he seems after one season on a historically bad team.

I'd give him another shot. I think he can still potentially pan out to be a solid 4th or 5th "possession receiver". Nothing flashy but maybe someone who can be a "go to guy" from time to time. Boutte was similar and he found more of a role this season.

I do think Baker is a lost cause though, there's off-field drama with him and evidently he seemed to not even be able to practice because he made a lot of mistakes and had trouble getting used to the system.

My apologies if I was snippy towards you and VG.

So I think you guys are partially right. I think Polk etc are capable of more.

But I don't think the coaches were the culprits the last couple years.

This roster has just become so atrocious that guys at every position are getting overwhelmed. I tgink we've all experienced it playing sports, or even in team-based video games. It's near-impossible to do your job properly when the guy next to you is getting creamed every play. You're constantly under duress.

You can't play your normal game. Can't learn. Because you're just fighting to get off the line. The defense can play however it wants because it doesn't have to respect anyone.

Years of pitiful drafting and free agent signings left us with the worst roster in the league. I do think it makes it hard to incorporate new players. This is partially why I wish the NFL had a minor league. Give us a way to protect these guys a bit before they're thrown to the wolves.

Even Drake Maye wasn't good this year, not really. But we can see the immense potential and we know he was running for life on almost every play. IMO Polk has shown a lower ceiling. But on a real team maybe he shows a higher floor. Boutte, Milton, etc looked great against the Bills bench. Because the team wasn't getting collectively crushed abd tgey had time and space in which to work.

A true blue chip receiver/o-lineman probably shows more than our young guys did. But i agree that doesn't mean everyone on the roster is hopeless. 

But we absolutely must bolster our overall talent level with quality veterans or it's going to be a tough environment to develop youth. Wolf decided to punt/tank this year and then we didn't even bother to secure the #1 pick.

SMH

[Phantom255x]

I am starting to wonder how fair it is to judge these rookies based on this season.  Is Polk bad (for example) or was the system for him to develop in the problem.  It is hard to say. I am not sure what to expect from Polk or even Wallace moving forward.

Polk may not be a flashy player or elite talent, but I personally think it's more the latter. Think about it, they've drafted like hundreds of players at WR the past decade. Why have most of them been busts and didn't pan out here? Either they all truly sucked or it's also the coaching and lack of developing them. The only successful ones lately were Meyers (undrafted) and Douglas (6th round pick).

I think Wallace was hurt for most of the year, but I do actually think there's a lot of promise with him and Robinson on the O-Line. If they acquire an actual LT this time, and Wallace is the RT I'd be down with that. Onwenu can fill in at OT as needed.

You think Brady and McDaniels sucked at developing WR's?

It's not just them, there's the WR coach, the head coach, and all the support staff.

I agree with a lot of what you said above^. I'm not at all saying Polk is definitely an elite talent being hindered by this system. But I personally also believe the team and coaches aren't putting these guys in the best position to succeed given their skillsets.

McConkey is without a doubt a much, much better than Polk. Pats and Wolf deserve all the blame for trading down with that pick and taking Polk. But do I think McConkey would be as productive and elite here as he is currently with the Chargers? I truthfully don't. Chargers have Harbaugh, and Sanjay Lal at OC who is very experienced at what he does. The Chargers have a pretty good history of developing WRs. So does a team like Pittsburgh.

To be clear, I think Wolf should already be gone. Hire a new, more experienced GM to work with Vrabel or whoever the new HC is. Nuke the entire front office operations including Matt Groh, the current scouts, etc.

My original question was not intended to be a defense of Wolf.  I am not impressed with his work so far.  Just wondering if Polk maybe isn?t as bad as he seems after one season on a historically bad team.

I'd give him another shot. I think he can still potentially pan out to be a solid 4th or 5th "possession receiver". Nothing flashy but maybe someone who can be a "go to guy" from time to time. Boutte was similar and he found more of a role this season.

I do think Baker is a lost cause though, there's off-field drama with him and evidently he seemed to not even be able to practice because he made a lot of mistakes and had trouble getting used to the system.

My apologies if I was snippy towards you and VG.

So I think you guys are partially right. I think Polk etc are capable of more.

But I don't think the coaches were the culprits the last couple years.

This roster has just become so atrocious that guys at every position are getting overwhelmed. I tgink we've all experienced it playing sports, or even in team-based video games. It's near-impossible to do your job properly when the guy next to you is getting creamed every play. You're constantly under duress.

You can't play your normal game. Can't learn. Because you're just fighting to get off the line. The defense can play however it wants because it doesn't have to respect anyone.

Years of pitiful drafting and free agent signings left us with the worst roster in the league. I do think it makes it hard to incorporate new players. This is partially why I wish the NFL had a minor league. Give us a way to protect these guys a bit before they're thrown to the wolves.

Even Drake Maye wasn't good this year, not really. But we can see the immense potential and we know he was running for life on almost every play. IMO Polk has shown a lower ceiling. But on a real team maybe he shows a higher floor. Boutte, Milton, etc looked great against the Bills bench. Because the team wasn't getting collectively crushed abd tgey had time and space in which to work.

A true blue chip receiver/o-lineman probably shows more than our young guys did. But i agree that doesn't mean everyone on the roster is hopeless. 

But we absolutely must bolster our overall talent level with quality veterans or it's going to be a tough environment to develop youth. Wolf decided to punt/tank this year and then we didn't even bother to secure the #1 pick.

SMH

No worries!

Yeah I agree, I've been saying for a while I think the biggest problem with this team in recent years is the lack of talent and particularly the fact that they never spend.

That 2021 offseason where we drafted Mac and spent a ton in cap space is the only outlier (and btw... we made the playoffs that year at 10-7, just saying). Besides that, they are notoriously last or right around there in terms of cash spending and cap space allocation.

We went into last offseason with a ton in cap space, and still entered the season with around 50M in cap space UNSPENT, while needing a WR1, LT, etc. That's malpractice.

My worry though is that, Wolf and Groh and all the other scouts/evaluators are still here and will remain here, and they'll definitely still have input on decisions. That's not ideal.

One comparison I'll bring up is the Commanders. They not only took Jayden Daniels at #2, but they also added 5 draft picks who were impact contributors on their current team that's in the playoffs, and they actually addressed O-Line and added 4-5 impact players in FA after they added a new GM (Adam Peters) and other staff. They also added Dan Quinn and Kliff Kingsbury. Contrast that to NE and Maye's situation around him. Completely different. BOTH teams went 4-13 in 2023, and this year one of them is in the playoffs at 12-5 while the other is still 4-13.

[Roy H.]

Vrabel has been hired.

[Redz]

Vrabel has been hired.

Let?s give stability a shot

[Donoghus]

Vrabel has been hired.

Good.  Now the Krafts need to get the hell out of the way and let him do his thing.

[Goldstar88]

I?m neutral on this move. Mike was basically a .500 coach in Tenn and they had solid rosters. The hiring won?t matter much unless Kraft starts spending money on free agents and the GM needs to make better draft picks. This team has very little talent.

[Neurotic Guy]

Very happy the signing was quick by someone who MAY do a good job (who really knows).  Gives time to replace OC, DC, GM.

[Phantom255x]

I don't like the fact that it seems Elliot Wolf will remain on and not only that, but still retain personnel power and GM duties. Lack of talent has been our biggest issue in recent years, and he's been at the forefront of it along with Matt Groh and all the other scouts/evaluators.

[SparzWizard]

I don't like the fact that it seems Elliot Wolf will remain on and not only that, but still retain personnel power and GM duties. Lack of talent has been our biggest issue in recent years, and he's been at the forefront of it along with Matt Groh and all the other scouts/evaluators.

Hopefully Vrabel is enough to get Wolf and Groh fired next off-season.

Or Kraft may be silly and can Vrabel after one season

[Neurotic Guy]

I don't like the fact that it seems Elliot Wolf will remain on and not only that, but still retain personnel power and GM duties. Lack of talent has been our biggest issue in recent years, and he's been at the forefront of it along with Matt Groh and all the other scouts/evaluators.

Hopefully Vrabel is enough to get Wolf and Groh fired next off-season.

Or Kraft may be silly and can Vrabel after one season

Vrabel has been HC for less than a day.  I dont think the all is said and done regarding who will pick the groceries.  I?m not suggesting that will be Vrabel, but I do think he?s going to have some say as to who does.  I don?t think anyone knows the fate of Wolf or Groh just yet.

[Neurotic Guy]

I don't like the fact that it seems Elliot Wolf will remain on and not only that, but still retain personnel power and GM duties. Lack of talent has been our biggest issue in recent years, and he's been at the forefront of it along with Matt Groh and all the other scouts/evaluators.

Hopefully Vrabel is enough to get Wolf and Groh fired next off-season.

Or Kraft may be silly and can Vrabel after one season

Vrabel has been HC for less than a day.  I dont think that all is said and done regarding who will pick the groceries.  I?m not suggesting that will be Vrabel, but I do think he?s going to have some say as to who does.  I don?t think anyone knows the fate of Wolf or Groh just yet.

[Goldstar88]

This was likely a done deal months ago.

The Raiders felt like another potential fit for Vrabel after firing head coach Antonio Pierce, given Vrabel?s evident ties with Las Vegas minority owner Tom Brady. But the Raiders were on of the few teams with a coaching vacancy to not schedule an interview with Vrabel before he took the job in New England.

The most rumored landing spot for Mike Vrabel for months was with the Las Vegas Raiders considering they have his old friend and teammate, Tom Brady, there as the minority owner and running their coaching search, NFL Network?s Tom Pelissero said Sunday on The Insiders. My understanding is the Raiders never requested an interview or tried to bring Mike Vrabel in because Vrabel essentially told Tom Brady, I?m gonna end up going back to New England.

[Phantom255x]

https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1878467694158041417

For those asking why the #Patriots didn?t hire Mike Vrabel last year, New England had already designated Jerod Mayo as Bill Belichick?s successor per his contract. There was no path to hire Vrabel without buying out Mayo?s deal while also paying another incoming coach. They gave it a year with Mayo, it didn?t work, and now they turn to Vrabel. New England comes out lucky that no one hired Vrabel last year.

We already knew this, but interesting to see it officially reported now. So it sounds like they didn't tell people publicly but Mayo was already the next HC. Even after letting Belichick go, they knew it in that press conference where they announced they were departing with Belichick, but didn't tell anyone until it was official.

But yeah, they also lucked out big time no one hired Vrabel last year. Surprising he didn't. Glad it ultimately worked out for the most part.

Wonder what Mayo's buyout was. It had to have been a very high amount if they weren't willing to do it to get Vrabel in last year.

[keevsnick]

Vrabel may very well be a better head coach than Mayo, probably is. But if the Patriots continue to be cheap with the spending and draft poorly the team will still be bad next year, prime Bill Belichick wouldn't change that.

I feel like the Krafts have gotten off very easy in the blame pie the last few seasons and the coaches have gotten scapegoated a bit.

[johnnygreen]

This feels like the ultimate wait and see type of signing. Vrabel does seem like a very good head coach. Now we have to wait and see who he brings in as assistant coaches, and if he has his own guy to be the next GM. If Elliot Wolf remains as the de-facto GM, then they should have just kept Jerod Mayo as head coach, because the team simply won't improve when Wolf has another bad draft. BTW, what good is all that cap space if good free agents don't want to come here.

Kraft essentially hired a 5 star chef in Vrabel, but still has a McDonald's fry cook ordering the groceries from the parking lot trash.