The Amazing Derrick White

[jambr380]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

White was a fantastic player playing next to Smart in 2022-23 and Smart actually had a great playoff run that year - better than anything Jrue had ever done in the postseason. We are lucky Jrue finally bucked his trend of shrinking in the playoffs year after year. We needed him with KP out.

Also going unmentioned is Joe having a full year under his belt rather than being a last second replacement who nobody respected. And Tatum and Brown finally reaching their primes and maturing. Things got pretty real after they lost to the Heat. Also, and this can't be overstated, we had an incredibly easy run this past year. No Butler/Rozier vs Heat. No Mitchell/Allen vs Cavs. And no Hali/Mathurin vs Indy. In the Finals, the Mavs were basically us in 2022. They had run such a tough gauntlet and just ran out of steam.

As for PP, simply trading Brogdon allowed him more opportunity. Brogdon also appears to be a bit of a malcontent. Moving on from him and Grant probably didn't hurt locker room camaraderie.

We win last year with Smart instead of KP (who he was traded for, not Jrue). We would have had the same playoff team, but with Smart since KP was injured. Now I guess I'll get ready for all of the Smart is an inefficient chucker and a cancer on the team. Gotta love hindsight and totally downplaying a guy that helped the team overachieve for years while he was here. And the more responsibility he was given through the years, the better they played.

[Phantom255x]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

It's interesting to wonder how things would have played out if the original Brogdon trade didn't get nixed. We'd probably still have Smart and Timelord on the team, and maybe the frontcourt rotation is better designed long term. I still think we could have won it all with them.

[RodyTur10]

Olympian and top shot-blocking guard in the NBA.

is it me did he look bigger muscle wise during the Olympics...hes our most underrated player.

Not by me. White is our third best player! After Porzingis.....

[Neurotic Guy]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

It's interesting to wonder how things would have played out if the original Brogdon trade didn't get nixed. We'd probably still have Smart and Timelord on the team, and maybe the frontcourt rotation is better designed long term. I still think we could have won it all with them.

Idk but I can say that DW and JH on the court make me feel confident that something positive will happen. Smart left me anxious. On D I believed in him, but offensively he made me worry. He was mercurial and impulsive.  And with a lead he got cocky and careless.  Not that this team doesn?t get complacent and lose leads, but I am confident in their ability to kick it back in gear when needed. 

[RodyTur10]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

It's interesting to wonder how things would have played out if the original Brogdon trade didn't get nixed. We'd probably still have Smart and Timelord on the team, and maybe the frontcourt rotation is better designed long term. I still think we could have won it all with them.

Idk but I can say that DW and JH on the court make me feel confident that something positive will happen. Smart left me anxious. On D I believed in him, but offensively he made me worry. He was mercurial and impulsive.  And with a lead he got cocky and careless.  Not that this team doesn?t get complacent and lose leads, but I am confident in their ability to kick it back in gear when needed.

Didn't we love those behind-the-back-passes? Or his eagerness to make up for a mistake by going for a quick bucket early in the shot clock?

Other then that it was definitely time to say goodbye to the antics of Smart, which stood in the way of a Championship, it's remarkable that the Cobra has completely fallen of a cliff in Memphis and has only played 27 games!

The relevant trade part for the Celtics (Smart for Porzingis + two 1sts) was an insane heist.

[trickybilly]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

It's interesting to wonder how things would have played out if the original Brogdon trade didn't get nixed. We'd probably still have Smart and Timelord on the team, and maybe the frontcourt rotation is better designed long term. I still think we could have won it all with them.

Idk but I can say that DW and JH on the court make me feel confident that something positive will happen. Smart left me anxious. On D I believed in him, but offensively he made me worry. He was mercurial and impulsive.  And with a lead he got cocky and careless.  Not that this team doesn?t get complacent and lose leads, but I am confident in their ability to kick it back in gear when needed.

Didn't we love those behind-the-back-passes? Or his eagerness to make up for a mistake by going for a quick bucket early in the shot clock?

Other then that it was definitely time to say goodbye to the antics of Smart, which stood in the way of a Championship, it's remarkable that the Cobra has completely fallen of a cliff in Memphis and has only played 27 games!

The relevant trade part for the Celtics (Smart for Porzingis + two 1sts) was an insane heist.

And 1 of those included in the Jrue deal. Probably a more relevant aspect of winning the chip.

[trickybilly]

Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford, 2022 first round pick and 2028 pick swap. That all it took

We already have Tatum, Brown, Derrick, and Sam, Jrue, PP, and Schiermann all under contract for the 27-28 season, so the chance that that pick swap even happens is almost zero.

Still I hope that 2022 first round spurs pick... checks notes.... Blake Wesley.... has a nice career.

[Goldstar88]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

White was a fantastic player playing next to Smart in 2022-23 and Smart actually had a great playoff run that year - better than anything Jrue had ever done in the postseason. We are lucky Jrue finally bucked his trend of shrinking in the playoffs year after year. We needed him with KP out.

Also going unmentioned is Joe having a full year under his belt rather than being a last second replacement who nobody respected. And Tatum and Brown finally reaching their primes and maturing. Things got pretty real after they lost to the Heat. Also, and this can't be overstated, we had an incredibly easy run this past year. No Butler/Rozier vs Heat. No Mitchell/Allen vs Cavs. And no Hali/Mathurin vs Indy. In the Finals, the Mavs were basically us in 2022. They had run such a tough gauntlet and just ran out of steam.

As for PP, simply trading Brogdon allowed him more opportunity. Brogdon also appears to be a bit of a malcontent. Moving on from him and Grant probably didn't hurt locker room camaraderie.

We win last year with Smart instead of KP (who he was traded for, not Jrue). We would have had the same playoff team, but with Smart since KP was injured. Now I guess I'll get ready for all of the Smart is an inefficient chucker and a cancer on the team. Gotta love hindsight and totally downplaying a guy that helped the team overachieve for years while he was here. And the more responsibility he was given through the years, the better they played.

.

Jrue?s a superior player, both in the regular season and postseason. His numbers are much better and he played a huge role in the Bucks winning a championship. Holiday makes the right play in critical moments more often than not. Can?t say the same for Smart. Marcus couldn?t get Boston over the hump. Jrue did. . The Celtics were never going to win with Smart as the starting PG. Also, Jrue had a playoff run where he averaged 24pts/6rebs/6ast. This is better than anything Marcus has ever done.

[jambr380]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

White was a fantastic player playing next to Smart in 2022-23 and Smart actually had a great playoff run that year - better than anything Jrue had ever done in the postseason. We are lucky Jrue finally bucked his trend of shrinking in the playoffs year after year. We needed him with KP out.

Also going unmentioned is Joe having a full year under his belt rather than being a last second replacement who nobody respected. And Tatum and Brown finally reaching their primes and maturing. Things got pretty real after they lost to the Heat. Also, and this can't be overstated, we had an incredibly easy run this past year. No Butler/Rozier vs Heat. No Mitchell/Allen vs Cavs. And no Hali/Mathurin vs Indy. In the Finals, the Mavs were basically us in 2022. They had run such a tough gauntlet and just ran out of steam.

As for PP, simply trading Brogdon allowed him more opportunity. Brogdon also appears to be a bit of a malcontent. Moving on from him and Grant probably didn't hurt locker room camaraderie.

We win last year with Smart instead of KP (who he was traded for, not Jrue). We would have had the same playoff team, but with Smart since KP was injured. Now I guess I'll get ready for all of the Smart is an inefficient chucker and a cancer on the team. Gotta love hindsight and totally downplaying a guy that helped the team overachieve for years while he was here. And the more responsibility he was given through the years, the better they played.

.

Jrue?s a superior player, both in the regular season and postseason. His numbers are much better and he played a huge role in the Bucks winning a championship. Holiday makes the right play in critical moments more often than not. Can?t say the same for Smart. Marcus couldn?t get Boston over the hump. Jrue did. . The Celtics were never going to win with Smart as the starting PG. Also, Jrue had a playoff run where he averaged 24pts/6rebs/6ast. This is better than anything Marcus has ever done.

Jrue had that nice 9 game run in NOP, but his efficiency stats in MIL were not pretty bad. At or just under 40% FG and 30% 3PT in his three years there. It?s annoying I have to keep sounding like I?m dunking on Jrue because I really like him, but his playoff stats were not great, especially when he was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd best player there. I absolutely acknowledge we don?t win a Title without him since Rob and Brogdon both had season ending injuries. We wouldn?t have been able to overcome that and KP going down.

But the Smart slander is just off the rails these days. People are acting like he was actively trying to block the Celtics from a Title. He was great in Jrue?s 5th option role in 2017 and 2018 and was only forced to be more in 2020 (all unexpected ECF appearances) with the injuries to Hayward and Kemba. Imagine they stay healthy. Imagine Horford doesn?t leave. That 2020 team might have gone all the way - definitely to the Finals.

When he did unofficially become the 3rd option, we made the Finals one year and game 7 of the ECF the next. If Brogdon and/or Tatum don?t go down, it?s another Finals appearance. His contributions and attitude resonated through the team. ?It?s different here? is because of Smart?s determination and grit.

I?m not going to go into all of the team?s changes or things that had to go right for us to finally get over the hump last year (just re-read my response), but when you give yourself enough chances, eventually things finally go your way. Credit to Danny and Brad for keeping this team at a high level and giving us the opportunity to finally break through.

I wish Marcus was here to celebrate with the team last year - I firmly believe we win without the KP trade since we won the conference by 14 games and KP went down in the playoffs - but that?s not how it played out. I just also wish people would use a little more analysis than Marcus bad, Marcus gone, Celtics win.

[Roy H.]

We woulda spanked the Warriors in 2022 if THIS D.White had showed up.

Yeah, I don't like to think about that. This Derrick White is more than we all could have hoped for. He actually was lowkey great the next season, as he started for much of it with Rob's health issues. That rebound put back in game 6 against Miami should have been it. Luckily it all worked out last season, but it doesn't mean that we didn't blow a couple of great opportunities the couple of years before.

I know his stats aren't totally there, but I hope he makes the All-Star team this season. He deserves to be there. With KP coming back, his stats could take even more of a hit, though.

White had gone off in Game 1 of the 2022 Finals if people remember. He was actually "Derrick Curry" that night and dominated especially the 2nd half.

I know I'll get hate for saying it, but I do think Smart leaving opened the door for guys like Pritchard and White and they've made the most of their opportunities. White was a much better fit and a better player than Smart to build around the Jays.

... and then the Jrue trade came along, and we acquired a player that had all of Smart's strengths and none of his weaknesses.  It couldn't have played out better for us in terms of our guard rotation.

White was a fantastic player playing next to Smart in 2022-23 and Smart actually had a great playoff run that year - better than anything Jrue had ever done in the postseason. We are lucky Jrue finally bucked his trend of shrinking in the playoffs year after year. We needed him with KP out.

Also going unmentioned is Joe having a full year under his belt rather than being a last second replacement who nobody respected. And Tatum and Brown finally reaching their primes and maturing. Things got pretty real after they lost to the Heat. Also, and this can't be overstated, we had an incredibly easy run this past year. No Butler/Rozier vs Heat. No Mitchell/Allen vs Cavs. And no Hali/Mathurin vs Indy. In the Finals, the Mavs were basically us in 2022. They had run such a tough gauntlet and just ran out of steam.

As for PP, simply trading Brogdon allowed him more opportunity. Brogdon also appears to be a bit of a malcontent. Moving on from him and Grant probably didn't hurt locker room camaraderie.

We win last year with Smart instead of KP (who he was traded for, not Jrue). We would have had the same playoff team, but with Smart since KP was injured. Now I guess I'll get ready for all of the Smart is an inefficient chucker and a cancer on the team. Gotta love hindsight and totally downplaying a guy that helped the team overachieve for years while he was here. And the more responsibility he was given through the years, the better they played.

.

Jrue?s a superior player, both in the regular season and postseason. His numbers are much better and he played a huge role in the Bucks winning a championship. Holiday makes the right play in critical moments more often than not. Can?t say the same for Smart. Marcus couldn?t get Boston over the hump. Jrue did. . The Celtics were never going to win with Smart as the starting PG. Also, Jrue had a playoff run where he averaged 24pts/6rebs/6ast. This is better than anything Marcus has ever done.

Jrue had that nice 9 game run in NOP, but his efficiency stats in MIL were not pretty bad. At or just under 40% FG and 30% 3PT in his three years there. It?s annoying I have to keep sounding like I?m dunking on Jrue because I really like him, but his playoff stats were not great, especially when he was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd best player there. I absolutely acknowledge we don?t win a Title without him since Rob and Brogdon both had season ending injuries. We wouldn?t have been able to overcome that and KP going down.

But the Smart slander is just off the rails these days. People are acting like he was actively trying to block the Celtics from a Title. He was great in Jrue?s 5th option role in 2017 and 2018 and was only forced to be more in 2020 (all unexpected ECF appearances) with the injuries to Hayward and Kemba. Imagine they stay healthy. Imagine Horford doesn?t leave. That 2020 team might have gone all the way - definitely to the Finals.

When he did unofficially become the 3rd option, we made the Finals one year and game 7 of the ECF the next. If Brogdon and/or Tatum don?t go down, it?s another Finals appearance. His contributions and attitude resonated through the team. ?It?s different here? is because of Smart?s determination and grit.

I?m not going to go into all of the team?s changes or things that had to go right for us to finally get over the hump last year (just re-read my response), but when you give yourself enough chances, eventually things finally go your way. Credit to Danny and Brad for keeping this team at a high level and giving us the opportunity to finally break through.

I wish Marcus was here to celebrate with the team last year - I firmly believe we win without the KP trade since we won the conference by 14 games and KP went down in the playoffs - but that?s not how it played out. I just also wish people would use a little more analysis than Marcus bad, Marcus gone, Celtics win.

You're entitled to your feelings, but I think that most objective people would say that Jrue was a better fit for our team.  He's just a steadier player.  As I said, he's got all of Marcus' good traits, and none of the bad ones.

If Brogdon and/or Tatum don?t go down, it?s another Finals appearance.

If White doesn't make a miracle putback after a wild Smart miss, we lose in Game 6.

[Vermont Green]

Doing all the "what if" speculating on the trades around Porzingis and Holiday, is futile, but interesting.  In particular, if the first Porzingis trade had gone down, it would have included Brogdon going out, but not much else, and no picks coming back.  So if that trade had gone down, the trade for Jrue Holiday could have been Smart, Williams and no picks.  So really ending up pretty much in the same place either way.  It ended up being Smart, Brogdon, and Williams out, Porzingis and Holiday in.  The picks ended up netting out, more or less. 

I think BOS/Stevens still end up trading for Holiday in either case.  Maybe the second trade includes Smart to MEM and picks and players to POR, something like that.  Or who knows, maybe MEM and POR strike a deal and cut BOS out.

The speculation part is are we better off with Holiday or would we be better off with Smart and Williams.  Smart got traded first, so this is hypothetical, but not entirely unrealistic.  Since we have won one championship and are the current favorite for another, it is hard think we could be any better off in any scenario.

[jambr380]

You're entitled to your feelings, but I think that most objective people would say that Jrue was a better fit for our team.  He's just a steadier player.  As I said, he's got all of Marcus' good traits, and none of the bad ones.

I've always acknowledged that Jrue is a 'better' player than Marcus. I don't think this has always been true in playoff settings where Jrue had a poor reputation before joining Boston, but he more than made up for it last year when we really needed him to perform. He was fantastic.

But my argument has always been against people who think Marcus was standing in the way of a championship and his mere presence is what prevented one from happening. In my alternate scenario, we would have had Marcus and Jrue. Yeah, we probably would have had to pick up another back-up Center and maybe we don't get 64 wins, but we definitely finish first in the conference. And then the playoff roster would have essentially been the same, but with the addition of Marcus.

I understand that Smart was a polarizing player, but he was a big part of establishing the culture that led to us winning it all. That and an incredibly easy playoff path. How would the Cs have fared if those teams had their stars and we were missing Tatum? As I mentioned before, all the credit in the world goes to Danny and Brad for building such consistently competitive teams, but I just think it's ridiculous people think the reason we won it all is because Marcus Smart was removed from the team. As if there were no other factors that changed from previous years to last year.

[MattyIce]

You're entitled to your feelings, but I think that most objective people would say that Jrue was a better fit for our team.  He's just a steadier player.  As I said, he's got all of Marcus' good traits, and none of the bad ones.

I've always acknowledged that Jrue is a 'better' player than Marcus. I don't think this has always been true in playoff settings where Jrue had a poor reputation before joining Boston, but he more than made up for it last year when we really needed him to perform. He was fantastic.

But my argument has always been against people who think Marcus was standing in the way of a championship and his mere presence is what prevented one from happening. In my alternate scenario, we would have had Marcus and Jrue. Yeah, we probably would have had to pick up another back-up Center and maybe we don't get 64 wins, but we definitely finish first in the conference. And then the playoff roster would have essentially been the same, but with the addition of Marcus.

I understand that Smart was a polarizing player, but he was a big part of establishing the culture that led to us winning it all. That and an incredibly easy playoff path. How would the Cs have fared if those teams had their stars and we were missing Tatum? As I mentioned before, all the credit in the world goes to Danny and Brad for building such consistently competitive teams, but I just think it's ridiculous people think the reason we won it all is because Marcus Smart was removed from the team. As if there were no other factors that changed from previous years to last year.

emphatically agree...but I'm biased

[Roy H.]

You're entitled to your feelings, but I think that most objective people would say that Jrue was a better fit for our team.  He's just a steadier player.  As I said, he's got all of Marcus' good traits, and none of the bad ones.

I've always acknowledged that Jrue is a 'better' player than Marcus. I don't think this has always been true in playoff settings where Jrue had a poor reputation before joining Boston, but he more than made up for it last year when we really needed him to perform. He was fantastic.

But my argument has always been against people who think Marcus was standing in the way of a championship and his mere presence is what prevented one from happening. In my alternate scenario, we would have had Marcus and Jrue. Yeah, we probably would have had to pick up another back-up Center and maybe we don't get 64 wins, but we definitely finish first in the conference. And then the playoff roster would have essentially been the same, but with the addition of Marcus.

I understand that Smart was a polarizing player, but he was a big part of establishing the culture that led to us winning it all. That and an incredibly easy playoff path. How would the Cs have fared if those teams had their stars and we were missing Tatum? As I mentioned before, all the credit in the world goes to Danny and Brad for building such consistently competitive teams, but I just think it's ridiculous people think the reason we won it all is because Marcus Smart was removed from the team. As if there were no other factors that changed from previous years to last year.

I have a more complicated view of Marcus.

I definitely agree that he wasn't "holding us back", necessarily.  He was one of the players who thrived under Ime and he was a crucial part of us making it to the Finals.  And, Marcus' grit and grind was a big part in team culture while the Jays developed.

But...  People focus a lot on Marcus' offensive decision making, which is fair.  His efficiency was never fantastic, and for every big shot he made, he seemed to make a bad decision to cancel it out over time.  But, where Marcus began to lose me as a fan was with his defense.  In both 2021 and 2023, his defense was very much "flip the switch", where his effort was pretty lazy.  Yes, he'd make spectacular plays from time to time, but his day-to-day defense suffered.  Marcus was a big reason why we were .500 in Brad's last year, and .500 for the first couple of months under Ime.  At the same time, he was calling out the Jays in the media.  It rubbed me the wrong way, and it caused friction within the team at the time.

I think the Marcus trade was mostly to get KP, but I do think that Brad (pushed by Wyc, allegedly) wanted a bit of a culture change, too.  I think that's why the Memphis aspect of the deal came together so quickly:  I believe the reports that Brad was considering of doing the Memphis trade regardless of whether we did the Brogdon for KP deal.

But, intentional or not, there *has* been a change in culture.  Moving Marcus put the leadership yoke on Tatum and JB, and his brashness was replaced by calmness in Jrue.  We're just a calmer team now (and, reluctantly, Joe gets a lot of credit for that).  I think it's resulted in a better team that we wouldn't have otherwise.

[Goldstar88]

You're entitled to your feelings, but I think that most objective people would say that Jrue was a better fit for our team.  He's just a steadier player.  As I said, he's got all of Marcus' good traits, and none of the bad ones.

I've always acknowledged that Jrue is a 'better' player than Marcus. I don't think this has always been true in playoff settings where Jrue had a poor reputation before joining Boston, but he more than made up for it last year when we really needed him to perform. He was fantastic.

But my argument has always been against people who think Marcus was standing in the way of a championship and his mere presence is what prevented one from happening. In my alternate scenario, we would have had Marcus and Jrue. Yeah, we probably would have had to pick up another back-up Center and maybe we don't get 64 wins, but we definitely finish first in the conference. And then the playoff roster would have essentially been the same, but with the addition of Marcus.

I understand that Smart was a polarizing player, but he was a big part of establishing the culture that led to us winning it all. That and an incredibly easy playoff path. How would the Cs have fared if those teams had their stars and we were missing Tatum? As I mentioned before, all the credit in the world goes to Danny and Brad for building such consistently competitive teams, but I just think it's ridiculous people think the reason we won it all is because Marcus Smart was removed from the team. As if there were no other factors that changed from previous years to last year.

I have a more complicated view of Marcus.

I definitely agree that he wasn't "holding us back", necessarily.  He was one of the players who thrived under Ime and he was a crucial part of us making it to the Finals.  And, Marcus' grit and grind was a big part in team culture while the Jays developed.

But...  People focus a lot on Marcus' offensive decision making, which is fair.  His efficiency was never fantastic, and for every big shot he made, he seemed to make a bad decision to cancel it out over time.  But, where Marcus began to lose me as a fan was with his defense.  In both 2021 and 2023, his defense was very much "flip the switch", where his effort was pretty lazy.  Yes, he'd make spectacular plays from time to time, but his day-to-day defense suffered.  Marcus was a big reason why we were .500 in Brad's last year, and .500 for the first couple of months under Ime.  At the same time, he was calling out the Jays in the media.  It rubbed me the wrong way, and it caused friction within the team at the time.

I think the Marcus trade was mostly to get KP, but I do think that Brad (pushed by Wyc, allegedly) wanted a bit of a culture change, too.  I think that's why the Memphis aspect of the deal came together so quickly:  I believe the reports that Brad was considering of doing the Memphis trade regardless of whether we did the Brogdon for KP deal.

But, intentional or not, there *has* been a change in culture.  Moving Marcus put the leadership yoke on Tatum and JB, and his brashness was replaced by calmness in Jrue.  We're just a calmer team now (and, reluctantly, Joe gets a lot of credit for that).  I think it's resulted in a better team that we wouldn't have otherwise.

Completely agree. Great post, Roy. Also, I think Marcus was already starting to show some decline In play and I don?t think he would have been amenable to coming off the bench.

That trade is now looking like a heist by Brad. I wouldn?t be surprised if Memphis looks to move on from Smart at or before the deadline. Especially with the emergence of Pippen Jr.