The Amazing Derrick White

[Vermont Green]

In 2022-23, 4th QTR minutes:

White        6.9 min/gm
Smart       7.5 min/gm
Brogdon    7.4 min/gm

So both Brogdon and Smart were playing little more than White in the 4th quarter. 

Since:

2023-24
White         8.4 min/gm
Holiday       8.4 min/gm

2024-25
White        9.7 min/gm
Holiday      7.7 min/gm

I guess what the argument is that if somehow we had traded Brogdon for Porzingis and then kept Smart (didn't trade for Holiday), that White would not have continued to improve or not as much?  That Smart would have blocked White in a way that Holiday hasn't?  I am not sure these numbers support that.  I would expect that Smart and White would have gotten similar minutes and opportunities as Holiday and White have gotten.  Brogdon's overall minutes and 4th QTR minutes would have gone more to White and Smart than Pritchard, just like they have done with White and Holiday.

We were overloaded at the combo guard with Smart, Brogdon, White, and Pritchard.  Their first choice was to trade Brogdon for a big.  When that fell through, they traded Smart for a big.  When Holiday fell into their lap, they decided to trade Brogdon.  White was a keeper all along.  I assume MEM would have had interest in White as well as Smart.  They were right in keeping White.

I think the argument is more simple than that:  Jrue + White + Pritchard is the best possible guard rotation we could have ended up with, when you consider level of play on both ends, the locker room and egos, and contracts.

I am a big Marcus Smart fan but I don't disagree with that, at least the White and Holiday part.  And you can add durability to that list of reasons also.  If you look at Pritchard over the last 20'ish games, he has done more than either Smart or Brogdon over the same period.  Prior to that, Pritchard was not as good as Brogdon or Smart.  A healthy Brogdon was 6th man of the year on this team.  Pritchard will probably never achieve that, but maybe.  Smart is a coveted starter (when healthy), no way MEM trades 2 firsts and two decent players for Pritchard, even now.

So not sure exactly how far you mean to go with "best possible rotation" but is Pritchard really a better 6th man than a healthy Brogdon (for example)?  For what we are paying Pritchard, sure, if you factor that in.  And I don't think Pritchard is a better player than a healthy Smart.   Pritchard is scoring at a rate about double his career average.  Not sure he keeps that up, he may, but a this point, it is still an outlier 22 games.

I am not sure it is fair to compare these 22 Pritchard games (the best of his career by a wide margin) to the recent performance of Smart and Brogdon (who are playing some of the worst of their career due to injury).  It may turn out that Pritchard is better than either moving forward, but if that is the case, it will be largely due to Smart and Brogdon being diminished by injuries.  For now, Pritchard is working out just fine.  A healthy, lights out hot, Pritchard is better than a hobbled Smart or Brogdon.

[Roy H.]

In 2022-23, 4th QTR minutes:

White        6.9 min/gm
Smart       7.5 min/gm
Brogdon    7.4 min/gm

So both Brogdon and Smart were playing little more than White in the 4th quarter. 

Since:

2023-24
White         8.4 min/gm
Holiday       8.4 min/gm

2024-25
White        9.7 min/gm
Holiday      7.7 min/gm

I guess what the argument is that if somehow we had traded Brogdon for Porzingis and then kept Smart (didn't trade for Holiday), that White would not have continued to improve or not as much?  That Smart would have blocked White in a way that Holiday hasn't?  I am not sure these numbers support that.  I would expect that Smart and White would have gotten similar minutes and opportunities as Holiday and White have gotten.  Brogdon's overall minutes and 4th QTR minutes would have gone more to White and Smart than Pritchard, just like they have done with White and Holiday.

We were overloaded at the combo guard with Smart, Brogdon, White, and Pritchard.  Their first choice was to trade Brogdon for a big.  When that fell through, they traded Smart for a big.  When Holiday fell into their lap, they decided to trade Brogdon.  White was a keeper all along.  I assume MEM would have had interest in White as well as Smart.  They were right in keeping White.

I think the argument is more simple than that:  Jrue + White + Pritchard is the best possible guard rotation we could have ended up with, when you consider level of play on both ends, the locker room and egos, and contracts.

I am a big Marcus Smart fan but I don't disagree with that, at least the White and Holiday part.  And you can add durability to that list of reasons also.  If you look at Pritchard over the last 20'ish games, he has done more than either Smart or Brogdon over the same period.  Prior to that, Pritchard was not as good as Brogdon or Smart.  A healthy Brogdon was 6th man of the year on this team.  Pritchard will probably never achieve that, but maybe.  Smart is a coveted starter (when healthy), no way MEM trades 2 firsts and two decent players for Pritchard, even now.

So not sure exactly how far you mean to go with "best possible rotation" but is Pritchard really a better 6th man than a healthy Brogdon (for example)?  For what we are paying Pritchard, sure, if you factor that in.  And I don't think Pritchard is a better player than a healthy Smart.   Pritchard is scoring at a rate about double his career average.  Not sure he keeps that up, he may, but a this point, it is still an outlier 22 games.

I am not sure it is fair to compare these 22 Pritchard games (the best of his career by a wide margin) to the recent performance of Smart and Brogdon (who are playing some of the worst of their career due to injury).  It may turn out that Pritchard is better than either moving forward, but if that is the case, it will be largely due to Smart and Brogdon being diminished by injuries.  For now, Pritchard is working out just fine.  A healthy, lights out hot, Pritchard is better than a hobbled Smart or Brogdon.

For whatever it's worth, Pritchard this year has been better than Brogdon was in his 6MOY season:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=pritcpa01&p1yrfrom=2025&p1yrto=2025&player_id2=brogdma01&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2023

And yes, durability counts (only 8 games for Brogdon this year, after 39 last season.  Smart has played 12 games after only playing 20 last year.  So, 79 games combined since the trade.  Prichard hasn't missed a single game during that span.)

So do age, acceptance of role, contract, etc.  For instance, Brogdon + Smart earn about $6 million more this year than Jrue + Pritchard.  That's amplified significantly after luxury tax.

[Vermont Green]

In 2022-23, 4th QTR minutes:

White        6.9 min/gm
Smart       7.5 min/gm
Brogdon    7.4 min/gm

So both Brogdon and Smart were playing little more than White in the 4th quarter. 

Since:

2023-24
White         8.4 min/gm
Holiday       8.4 min/gm

2024-25
White        9.7 min/gm
Holiday      7.7 min/gm

I guess what the argument is that if somehow we had traded Brogdon for Porzingis and then kept Smart (didn't trade for Holiday), that White would not have continued to improve or not as much?  That Smart would have blocked White in a way that Holiday hasn't?  I am not sure these numbers support that.  I would expect that Smart and White would have gotten similar minutes and opportunities as Holiday and White have gotten.  Brogdon's overall minutes and 4th QTR minutes would have gone more to White and Smart than Pritchard, just like they have done with White and Holiday.

We were overloaded at the combo guard with Smart, Brogdon, White, and Pritchard.  Their first choice was to trade Brogdon for a big.  When that fell through, they traded Smart for a big.  When Holiday fell into their lap, they decided to trade Brogdon.  White was a keeper all along.  I assume MEM would have had interest in White as well as Smart.  They were right in keeping White.

I think the argument is more simple than that:  Jrue + White + Pritchard is the best possible guard rotation we could have ended up with, when you consider level of play on both ends, the locker room and egos, and contracts.

I am a big Marcus Smart fan but I don't disagree with that, at least the White and Holiday part.  And you can add durability to that list of reasons also.  If you look at Pritchard over the last 20'ish games, he has done more than either Smart or Brogdon over the same period.  Prior to that, Pritchard was not as good as Brogdon or Smart.  A healthy Brogdon was 6th man of the year on this team.  Pritchard will probably never achieve that, but maybe.  Smart is a coveted starter (when healthy), no way MEM trades 2 firsts and two decent players for Pritchard, even now.

So not sure exactly how far you mean to go with "best possible rotation" but is Pritchard really a better 6th man than a healthy Brogdon (for example)?  For what we are paying Pritchard, sure, if you factor that in.  And I don't think Pritchard is a better player than a healthy Smart.   Pritchard is scoring at a rate about double his career average.  Not sure he keeps that up, he may, but a this point, it is still an outlier 22 games.

I am not sure it is fair to compare these 22 Pritchard games (the best of his career by a wide margin) to the recent performance of Smart and Brogdon (who are playing some of the worst of their career due to injury).  It may turn out that Pritchard is better than either moving forward, but if that is the case, it will be largely due to Smart and Brogdon being diminished by injuries.  For now, Pritchard is working out just fine.  A healthy, lights out hot, Pritchard is better than a hobbled Smart or Brogdon.

For whatever it's worth, Pritchard this year has been better than Brogdon was in his 6MOY season:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=pritcpa01&p1yrfrom=2025&p1yrto=2025&player_id2=brogdma01&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2023

And yes, durability counts (only 8 games for Brogdon this year, after 39 last season.  Smart has played 12 games after only playing 20 last year.  So, 79 games combined since the trade.  Prichard hasn't missed a single game during that span.)

So do age, acceptance of role, contract, etc.  For instance, Brogdon + Smart earn about $6 million more this year than Jrue + Pritchard.  That's amplified significantly after luxury tax.

If Pritchard continues to play this well and Smart/Brogdon continue to be this limited, then yes, you take Pritchard all day.  I am just saying that it may not turn out that you can count on this to continue at the current extremes.

[keevsnick]

As much as I like Marcus Smart, i think there's a pretty large utility to having a complete rotation where every player is at least an average three point shooter. Smart had one decent three point shooting seaosn but has generally been a 30-33% shooter, the kind of guy you could just not guard especially in a playoff series. Jrue Holiday brings a lot of what Marcus did, but you also have to0 guard his.

I think the way the guard rotation ended up is not only the bet6s combo of player,s but the bets group for hoe Mazzula wants to play.

There's also an age issue. Smart and Brogdon are turning 31 and 32 this year, PP is turning 27. He's also on a very good contract.