Woj Bomb: Celtics Ownership looking to Sell

[Phantom255x]

I hope Pags teams up with a few investors and together they buy the team and own it.

[Celtics2021]

I hope Pags teams up with a few investors and together they buy the team and own it.

I am fine with any group of investors who is willing to let me be involved.

[tenn_smoothie]

Is this possibility good news for the team remaining willing to spend the necessary money to maintain a title contender ?
Any word on John Henry's level of interest ?

[boscel33]

I hope Pags teams up with a few investors and together they buy the team and own it.

I am fine with any group of investors who is willing to let me be involved.

To say any group, might be a stretch.  I don't want FSG anywhere near the C's!

[Donoghus]

I hope Pags teams up with a few investors and together they buy the team and own it.

I am fine with any group of investors who is willing to let me be involved.

To say any group, might be a stretch.  I don't want FSG anywhere near the C's!

Same.  I've had enough of John Henry with the Sox. Don't need him involved with the Celtics.

That goes for Kraft too although I'm comfortable that that won't be a concern.

[Celtics2021]

I hope Pags teams up with a few investors and together they buy the team and own it.

I am fine with any group of investors who is willing to let me be involved.

To say any group, might be a stretch.  I don't want FSG anywhere near the C's!

Same.  I've had enough of John Henry with the Sox. Don't need him involved with the Celtics.

That goes for Kraft too although I'm comfortable that that won't be a concern.

My condition was that I be a part of the ownership group.  If FSG or Kraft want to make me a partner, I?m not going to say no!

[ozgod]

Here's the CNBC interview from Wyc.


https://cnb.cx/3XUpgwk

Some highlights from the Athletic, who had a story on the interview:

?I want to just clarify, it?s not my majority stake. The control of the team is owned by my family,? Grousbeck said. ?So it?s a family that I belong to and then I have the Celtics family that I also belong to. So there?s an intersection and there?s an involvement. The family has been involved for 22 years. There?s been discussions and thoughts about estate planning and family planning.?

Grousbeck did not clarify what aspect of estate and family planning led to the family?s decision to sell the team. The original sale announcement also stated that Grousbeck intends to stay on with the organization until 2028, even as the sales process begins imminently.

?I would love that to happen and that?s the expectation,? he said. ?We will see what plays out and go from there. ? The plan, the expectation is to sell the team in two parts. Fifty-one percent going fairly soon, 49 percent then closing in a second closing, that?s the expectation, in 2028. I?m planning or expected to stay on until ?28 and we?re going to hire bankers and advisors and this is going to be quite a bidding process.?

Boston?s payroll is set to cross the $200 million mark a year from now, with a projected luxury tax bill that could more than double the team?s expenses. Franchise valuations have increased significantly recently, with the Celtics being the biggest franchise to hit the NBA market in some time.

?It doesn?t matter if you don?t ever sell it,? Grousbeck said of that market increase on the same program in January 2023. ?But it has gone great that way. But we are paid in enjoyment and we love it and really, it?s the truth. But these (franchises) have gotten more valuable than I ever expected. It?s a chance to be on a global stage and compete.?

Now his family is opening up the bidding to the public a little more than a year later. Pagliuca intends to remain in the upcoming ownership group, but there will likely be new investors.

?Steve has been a terrific lead partner, lead co-owner in many ways,? Grousbeck said Monday. ?(He) brought Danny Ainge to the table back in the day when we were looking for a general manager. Steve has been great and is a great person and we welcome him for sure in the bidding process.?

One particular new wrinkle in an open bidding process is the potential for sovereign wealth funds to purchase up to 20 percent of a franchise. The NBA adopted the 20 percent ceiling on sovereign wealth funds in 2022, so they cannot have a controlling interest in a team.

?I?m part of that committee that reviewed that and voted for that,? Grousbeck said in that January 2023 interview. ?I feel that if you?re gonna have valuations like this, it?s not just the lead owner who has to ? but you need a whole core. I?ve got 20 great partners that I?ve been with for 20 years and we?re a group. To put that group together nowadays, instead of it being 200 equity (partners) would be so much more. We?re sort of a global ? we?re an investment class that has emerged and become, I think, more respected or valued by investors as almost a counter-cyclical, almost a long-term play. We?re welcoming in sovereign wealth.?

Grousbeck has long brought the energy publicly while Pagliuca has taken a strong role behind the scenes. For a Celtics franchise defined by stability in the ownership and front office, this will be a significant change for the franchise.

?At some point after 22 and even 25, 26 years, you can find somebody else to come in with energy,? he said. ?We?re gonna try to find the right buyer.?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5625374/2024/07/09/celtics-sale-co-owner-wyc-grousbeck/

Whoever buys it is going to have a pretty big payroll and tax bill to deal with, with everyone we have under contract we could be looking at half a million or so if we hit the repeater tax and don't reset. They better have deep pockets (which I'm sure they will be given this will beat the valuations on the Suns and Mavs which were around the $4bn mark...this might beat the Washington Commanders' record of $6.05bn 

[ozgod]

Is this possibility good news for the team remaining willing to spend the necessary money to maintain a title contender ?
Any word on John Henry's level of interest ?

Let's hope it's zero given he won't even spend the money to have the Red Sox competitive in their own division 

[Roy H.]

Bill Simmons: In the last few days there?s been some I think legitimate buzz about Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics, and I think it?s real. I think he?s gonna be one of the suitors. Which got me thinking, Jeff Bezos when he?s looking at the Celtics, what is he seeing? What does he want? And I think the only way it makes sense is that it?s one of the crown jewel franchises. That?s why you get it. To him, it would be no different than if you bought this famous gigantic $300 million yacht but I think it?s real that he?s potentially in the mix for this

Bill Simmons: The league wants six billion for the Celtics, six billion, they don?t own their arena, it?s a crazy price but they?re probably going to get it. They want the six billion because they want expansion teams in Seattle and Vegas and then Mexico City?s kind of looming as a third team but they want to get six billion a piece for the two franchises for expansion which would mean a check of $400 million to every NBA owner, all 30. They?re trying to establish a price with the Celtics team and the Celtics themselves the Grousbeck family.

I don't like the guy much, but I have no sense of what his philosophy would be like as an owner.

As for expansion teams, I'm curious:  why would they be valued the same as a top-5 franchise in the NBA?  Especially for a city like Seattle?

[BitterJim]

Bill Simmons: In the last few days there?s been some I think legitimate buzz about Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics, and I think it?s real. I think he?s gonna be one of the suitors. Which got me thinking, Jeff Bezos when he?s looking at the Celtics, what is he seeing? What does he want? And I think the only way it makes sense is that it?s one of the crown jewel franchises. That?s why you get it. To him, it would be no different than if you bought this famous gigantic $300 million yacht but I think it?s real that he?s potentially in the mix for this

Bill Simmons: The league wants six billion for the Celtics, six billion, they don?t own their arena, it?s a crazy price but they?re probably going to get it. They want the six billion because they want expansion teams in Seattle and Vegas and then Mexico City?s kind of looming as a third team but they want to get six billion a piece for the two franchises for expansion which would mean a check of $400 million to every NBA owner, all 30. They?re trying to establish a price with the Celtics team and the Celtics themselves the Grousbeck family.

I don't like the guy much, but I have no sense of what his philosophy would be like as an owner.

As for expansion teams, I'm curious:  why would they be valued the same as a top-5 franchise in the NBA?  Especially for a city like Seattle?

If he's more concerned with prestige than making money then it could work out well. I don't know if that's the case, though, and I feel like he would be more interested in owning an expansion Seattle franchise than the Celtics

Agreed on the valuation for an expansion. The Celtics selling for $6 billion would definitely help raise the price for an expansion team, but it should still be significantly lower than the Celtics. Even $5 billion would seem high

[W8ting2McHale]

Bill Simmons: In the last few days there?s been some I think legitimate buzz about Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics, and I think it?s real. I think he?s gonna be one of the suitors. Which got me thinking, Jeff Bezos when he?s looking at the Celtics, what is he seeing? What does he want? And I think the only way it makes sense is that it?s one of the crown jewel franchises. That?s why you get it. To him, it would be no different than if you bought this famous gigantic $300 million yacht but I think it?s real that he?s potentially in the mix for this

Bill Simmons: The league wants six billion for the Celtics, six billion, they don?t own their arena, it?s a crazy price but they?re probably going to get it. They want the six billion because they want expansion teams in Seattle and Vegas and then Mexico City?s kind of looming as a third team but they want to get six billion a piece for the two franchises for expansion which would mean a check of $400 million to every NBA owner, all 30. They?re trying to establish a price with the Celtics team and the Celtics themselves the Grousbeck family.

I don't like the guy much, but I have no sense of what his philosophy would be like as an owner.

As for expansion teams, I'm curious:  why would they be valued the same as a top-5 franchise in the NBA?  Especially for a city like Seattle?

If he's more concerned with prestige than making money then it could work out well. I don't know if that's the case, though, and I feel like he would be more interested in owning an expansion Seattle franchise than the Celtics

Agreed on the valuation for an expansion. The Celtics selling for $6 billion would definitely help raise the price for an expansion team, but it should still be significantly lower than the Celtics. Even $5 billion would seem high

While I agree that Bezos; like Paul Allen before him, would most likely target acquiring a local or regional franchise, he might prefer the notoriety of owning a premier franchise instead of having to build one. I briefly worked at Amazon and have met Bezos, and he enjoys building things, so I doubt that?s the case.

As for Seattle being some sort of secondary market, I don?t think that?s true at all. The Seahawks have rabid fan base despite not being a team with a long history of winning. There have been people campaigning for a basketball team since the Sonics were hijacked by the Oklahoma ownership. The WNBA team, the Seattle Storm, has been one of the most successful franchises and is women owned. The Sounder?s football (soccer) club routinely sells out the same stadium that the Seahawks use.

I know west coast teams don?t get as much exposure in the east coast media, but on the west coast it?s an economic powerhouse. I would estimate 25% of the population are east coast transplants with Ivy League education. The Puget Sound has a population of 4.5 million people and there are 11 billionaires and 55,000 millionaires and growing. The millionaire total is number 7 in the US and number 2 by population density. Washington state has a tax revenue of over $100 billion, and that?s without an individual or corporate income tax.

A Seattle franchise is going to be worth a lot if it?s a winning team and will still be financially successful even if it?s not.

[Roy H.]

Bill Simmons: In the last few days there?s been some I think legitimate buzz about Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics, and I think it?s real. I think he?s gonna be one of the suitors. Which got me thinking, Jeff Bezos when he?s looking at the Celtics, what is he seeing? What does he want? And I think the only way it makes sense is that it?s one of the crown jewel franchises. That?s why you get it. To him, it would be no different than if you bought this famous gigantic $300 million yacht but I think it?s real that he?s potentially in the mix for this

Bill Simmons: The league wants six billion for the Celtics, six billion, they don?t own their arena, it?s a crazy price but they?re probably going to get it. They want the six billion because they want expansion teams in Seattle and Vegas and then Mexico City?s kind of looming as a third team but they want to get six billion a piece for the two franchises for expansion which would mean a check of $400 million to every NBA owner, all 30. They?re trying to establish a price with the Celtics team and the Celtics themselves the Grousbeck family.

I don't like the guy much, but I have no sense of what his philosophy would be like as an owner.

As for expansion teams, I'm curious:  why would they be valued the same as a top-5 franchise in the NBA?  Especially for a city like Seattle?

If he's more concerned with prestige than making money then it could work out well. I don't know if that's the case, though, and I feel like he would be more interested in owning an expansion Seattle franchise than the Celtics

Agreed on the valuation for an expansion. The Celtics selling for $6 billion would definitely help raise the price for an expansion team, but it should still be significantly lower than the Celtics. Even $5 billion would seem high

While I agree that Bezos; like Paul Allen before him, would most likely target acquiring a local or regional franchise, he might prefer the notoriety of owning a premier franchise instead of having to build one. I briefly worked at Amazon and have met Bezos, and he enjoys building things, so I doubt that?s the case.

As for Seattle being some sort of secondary market, I don?t think that?s true at all. The Seahawks have rabid fan base despite not being a team with a long history of winning. There have been people campaigning for a basketball team since the Sonics were hijacked by the Oklahoma ownership. The WNBA team, the Seattle Storm, has been one of the most successful franchises and is women owned. The Sounder?s football (soccer) club routinely sells out the same stadium that the Seahawks use.

I know west coast teams don?t get as much exposure in the east coast media, but on the west coast it?s an economic powerhouse. I would estimate 25% of the population are east coast transplants with Ivy League education. The Puget Sound has a population of 4.5 million people and there are 11 billionaires and 55,000 millionaires and growing. The millionaire total is number 7 in the US and number 2 by population density. Washington state has a tax revenue of over $100 billion, and that?s without an individual or corporate income tax.

A Seattle franchise is going to be worth a lot if it?s a winning team and will still be financially successful even if it?s not.

They lost a team once and they're not a top-10 media market.  There's no way they should be valued similarly to a top-5 franchise in terms of valuation.

[Who]

I believe there is some type of problem with the valuation of the expansion teams. That the new media deal makes them much more lucrative. That for the 30 teams to give up a part of their share to two new teams would need the valuation of the expansion teams to be $6bn or more. Otherwise, expansion is a loss leader for all the current 30 teams in the league.

[W8ting2McHale]

Bill Simmons: In the last few days there?s been some I think legitimate buzz about Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics, and I think it?s real. I think he?s gonna be one of the suitors. Which got me thinking, Jeff Bezos when he?s looking at the Celtics, what is he seeing? What does he want? And I think the only way it makes sense is that it?s one of the crown jewel franchises. That?s why you get it. To him, it would be no different than if you bought this famous gigantic $300 million yacht but I think it?s real that he?s potentially in the mix for this

Bill Simmons: The league wants six billion for the Celtics, six billion, they don?t own their arena, it?s a crazy price but they?re probably going to get it. They want the six billion because they want expansion teams in Seattle and Vegas and then Mexico City?s kind of looming as a third team but they want to get six billion a piece for the two franchises for expansion which would mean a check of $400 million to every NBA owner, all 30. They?re trying to establish a price with the Celtics team and the Celtics themselves the Grousbeck family.

I don't like the guy much, but I have no sense of what his philosophy would be like as an owner.

As for expansion teams, I'm curious:  why would they be valued the same as a top-5 franchise in the NBA?  Especially for a city like Seattle?

If he's more concerned with prestige than making money then it could work out well. I don't know if that's the case, though, and I feel like he would be more interested in owning an expansion Seattle franchise than the Celtics

Agreed on the valuation for an expansion. The Celtics selling for $6 billion would definitely help raise the price for an expansion team, but it should still be significantly lower than the Celtics. Even $5 billion would seem high

While I agree that Bezos; like Paul Allen before him, would most likely target acquiring a local or regional franchise, he might prefer the notoriety of owning a premier franchise instead of having to build one. I briefly worked at Amazon and have met Bezos, and he enjoys building things, so I doubt that?s the case.

As for Seattle being some sort of secondary market, I don?t think that?s true at all. The Seahawks have rabid fan base despite not being a team with a long history of winning. There have been people campaigning for a basketball team since the Sonics were hijacked by the Oklahoma ownership. The WNBA team, the Seattle Storm, has been one of the most successful franchises and is women owned. The Sounder?s football (soccer) club routinely sells out the same stadium that the Seahawks use.

I know west coast teams don?t get as much exposure in the east coast media, but on the west coast it?s an economic powerhouse. I would estimate 25% of the population are east coast transplants with Ivy League education. The Puget Sound has a population of 4.5 million people and there are 11 billionaires and 55,000 millionaires and growing. The millionaire total is number 7 in the US and number 2 by population density. Washington state has a tax revenue of over $100 billion, and that?s without an individual or corporate income tax.

A Seattle franchise is going to be worth a lot if it?s a winning team and will still be financially successful even if it?s not.

They lost a team once and they're not a top-10 media market.  There's no way they should be valued similarly to a top-5 franchise in terms of valuation.

They lost a team because they got railroaded by the NBA, not due to lack of a fan base. Bennet had no intention of keeping the team in Seattle after he bought it and Stern pushed for approval before Steve Ballmer and others had a chance to make a counter offer.

Edit: the main sticking point was a bad arena deal, and there is a new arena available now. The NHL Kraken play there.

As for sports market size, the Boston area is number 8 despite multiple recent championships and Seattle is number 13 despite having a fledgling NHL team and no NBA franchise (Seattle was #12 two years ago but has been passed by Tampa).

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/

An NBA team would push them past Tampa Bay at least, and probably others like SF who will be losing the Athletics soon, simply due to the support of the fan base being more enthusiastic and loyal than some of the locations currently ahead of Seattle. Not to mention the wealth and expendable income of that fan base as outlined above.

That?s defined as liquid wealth, and not based off property. For every 12 people walking around Seattle, one is a millionaire. And they support the local sports teams. A Seattle NBA franchise will be worth more than one in Pittsburgh or another secondary market.

[bdm860]

It's crazy how far the league has come, but the last time there was an expansion team was '04-'05 with the Bobcats, which was also the last time the Celtics sold.

The Bobcats paid an expansion fee of $300m which was agreed to in Jan '03. and the Celtics just sold for $360m a few weeks earlier (Dec '02). I believe the previous two teams to sell were the Mavericks in Jan 2000 for $285m and the Nuggets in July 2000 (the Nuggets were sold in a package deal with the Avalanche and Pepsi Center for $450m, but Forbes says the Nuggets portion was $202m). 

So back then, you had an expansion team going for more than what established teams went for in larger markets a few years earlier, but less than a premier franchise.  Following similar math, if the C's sell for $6b, and considering the Suns and Mavs recently sold for $3.8 to $4b, it makes sense for an expansion team at $5b (and of course the NBA will try to get more if possible).

It is hard to fathom buying a brand new team for $6b when you could just buy the Celtics.  But if the Celtics are saddled with bad contracts, bad arena deal, bad RSN deal, etc. then I guess it could make sense if you're buying a clean slate with more growth potential.