So what were you wrong about this season?

[obnoxiousmime]

Big man depth: I was correct to be concerned about this and the Celtics wisely acquired Tillman for that extra layer of depth. It ended up being vital since Porzingis got hurt and Kornet predictably couldn't play at all against certain teams in the playoffs. Where I was kind of wrong was, Horford maintained the same level of play but I think a lot of that had to do with them having a really easier than normal road to the playoffs. They didn't have to face a Giannis or Embiid. They did face Adebayo but there was barely any other big threats on that Heat team.

Jaylen's role as more of an Aaron Gordon type: I was half right, half wrong about this. Jaylen did become more of a defensive stopper this season and they certainly took advantage of his finishing ability. However, while he scored less per game, he still had plenty of opportunities to initiate and playmake on offense in both the reg season and playoffs. He actually improved weak points in his game like ballhandling, going left, and passing. While he didn't necessarily reach elite levels in any of those things, it was still a significant improvement over how he was before. My original thought was that he'd be more specialized as a play finisher and use a lot of his energy on defense. However, his improvements and impressive conditioning allowed him to still maintain a lot of offensive responsibility.

Backup guard depth: I thought Pritchard would be picked on in the playoffs and wanted them to get a third ballhandling guard that was a little stouter on defense with more size. I still don't think I was totally wrong, because they ended up benching Pritchard in the closing game and just playing 7 guys. I think that the lack of serious threats in the early playoffs helped hide Pritch a bit, until he was just so mercilessly targeted by Luka that Joe was forced to make the change.

Uncertain about Mazzulla: I was concerned that Mazzulla lost the team last year, but I didn't know that Smart and Grant were kind of two of the ones who never seemed totally bought in to Joe's coaching. This year's team was clearly totally bought in and Mazzulla was allowed to shine.

[angryguy77]

I was wrong about living and dying by the 3 preventing us from winning it all. I still don't like the philosophy in general, but it worked for us.
I thought Joe may cost us more than he did. I thought he would be too stubborn to learn from his mistakes, but he did correct some things. I'm not ready to crown him as I do think the talent on this team could've won with multiple coaches, but he is the coach and I'll give him the respect he deserves. The team has matured and he must have played a part in that.

I'm sure there's much, much more I was wrong about.

[Roy H.]

I can honestly say that I did not fall into the traps that many other fans did.  I continued to believe in Brown and believed he could play just fine with Tatum (although I may have traded him for Durant back when that was being rumored).  I gave Mazzulla a mulligan for last season due to the circumstances but was hopeful on him and did not believe that he would be the reason for us not winning a title.  And I never bought into the narrative that the owner's are cheap.  Those were the most common "fan traps" and I was able to avoid them.

I did think we overpaid for White (although I liked the player).  Same for Holiday.  I was never critical of the trade, more neutral, I was in on Holiday from the start, just seemed like a lot to give up until both Brogdon and Williams broke down.

The final thing is one that is hard to define conclusively.  I never bought into the narrative that Smart was somehow bad for the team.  That he was impacting the development or the leadership of the J's.  I loved getting Porzingis and 2-firsts for Smart, but I am not down on Smart.  Not clear who is right on the negative Smart impact narrative.  I still see it as we won the title due to the addition of Holiday and Porzingis, not due to the subtraction of Smart.  That debate I guess will rage on.

It's not just the subtraction of Smart it's the massive upgrade to Jrue. Jrue fills in all the gaps and Smart kind of just did what he wanted to do. Some of that was good and some not.

Moreover Jrue doesn?t fly off the handle thinking he is knock down three point expert with heat checks. Smart just never was smart about shot selection.

I also helps that Jrue is a much better 3 point shooter than Smartacus...but I get it on the heat checks 

I have a lot of love for Smartacus, in his way he contributed to getting us to a position where we were able to win a championship, culminating in his being valued enough as a trade piece to get us KP in a three way trade.

I also feel that Smart leaving honestly opened up the door for Brown/tatum (and especially brown as we saw this playoff run) to become the leaders of this team.

I love smart, don't get me wrong and I was sad to see him traded. But at times I thought he viewed himself as the "leader" of the team. and brown/tatum deferred since he was the longest tenured player. We also saw Smart undermine mazzulla several times during last years playoff run....Jrue coming into a team already competing was more willing to play his "role" whatever that may be.

This is what I am getting at.  We had Smart, Brogdon, and Williams and traded them and got back Porzingis and Holiday.  You lose some talent/production (all of which ended up injured) and you bring in talent/production.  That is part of any trade.  It was never a trade of Smart for Holiday.  Smart got us Porzingis and 2 picks, I do that trade every day.

But there is this narrative (as explained by cman88) that Smart was blocking Tatum and Brown, that he was a problem for the team.  That is what is traditionally meant when you say "addition by subtraction".  That you are making the team better by subtracting a locker room problem or some other problem.  I never bought that in the case of Smart.  Smart had his warts, but he was a core part of a team that made the finals.  MEM gave up a lot to bring him in.

Keep in mind that BOS was going to trade Brogdon for Porzingis.  They preferred to keep Smart.  The LAC trade was plan A.  They traded Marcus to get Porzingis and two firsts, it had nothing to do with Jrue Holiday (although one of the picks was part of the deal).  I don't think the Celtics ever viewed Smart as a problem they had to get rid of.  They had a surplus of combo guards and needed more size.  Smart ended up being hurt all season so it turned out well for BOS.  But I don't buy the narrative that because Smart was a certain presence in the locker room or whatever, that it was detracting from the team or from Tatum and Brown specifically.

That said, I wonder what happens if the Brogdon deal goes through.  Do we keep Marcus?  Is the Memphis deal still there after the draft, as part of a three-way for Jrue?

With Smart instead of Holiday, I don't think we win.

[Kernewek]

I can honestly say that I did not fall into the traps that many other fans did.  I continued to believe in Brown and believed he could play just fine with Tatum (although I may have traded him for Durant back when that was being rumored).  I gave Mazzulla a mulligan for last season due to the circumstances but was hopeful on him and did not believe that he would be the reason for us not winning a title.  And I never bought into the narrative that the owner's are cheap.  Those were the most common "fan traps" and I was able to avoid them.

I did think we overpaid for White (although I liked the player).  Same for Holiday.  I was never critical of the trade, more neutral, I was in on Holiday from the start, just seemed like a lot to give up until both Brogdon and Williams broke down.

The final thing is one that is hard to define conclusively.  I never bought into the narrative that Smart was somehow bad for the team.  That he was impacting the development or the leadership of the J's.  I loved getting Porzingis and 2-firsts for Smart, but I am not down on Smart.  Not clear who is right on the negative Smart impact narrative.  I still see it as we won the title due to the addition of Holiday and Porzingis, not due to the subtraction of Smart.  That debate I guess will rage on.

It's not just the subtraction of Smart it's the massive upgrade to Jrue. Jrue fills in all the gaps and Smart kind of just did what he wanted to do. Some of that was good and some not.

Moreover Jrue doesn?t fly off the handle thinking he is knock down three point expert with heat checks. Smart just never was smart about shot selection.

I also helps that Jrue is a much better 3 point shooter than Smartacus...but I get it on the heat checks 

I have a lot of love for Smartacus, in his way he contributed to getting us to a position where we were able to win a championship, culminating in his being valued enough as a trade piece to get us KP in a three way trade.

I also feel that Smart leaving honestly opened up the door for Brown/tatum (and especially brown as we saw this playoff run) to become the leaders of this team.

I love smart, don't get me wrong and I was sad to see him traded. But at times I thought he viewed himself as the "leader" of the team. and brown/tatum deferred since he was the longest tenured player. We also saw Smart undermine mazzulla several times during last years playoff run....Jrue coming into a team already competing was more willing to play his "role" whatever that may be.

This is what I am getting at.  We had Smart, Brogdon, and Williams and traded them and got back Porzingis and Holiday.  You lose some talent/production (all of which ended up injured) and you bring in talent/production.  That is part of any trade.  It was never a trade of Smart for Holiday.  Smart got us Porzingis and 2 picks, I do that trade every day.

But there is this narrative (as explained by cman88) that Smart was blocking Tatum and Brown, that he was a problem for the team.  That is what is traditionally meant when you say "addition by subtraction".  That you are making the team better by subtracting a locker room problem or some other problem.  I never bought that in the case of Smart.  Smart had his warts, but he was a core part of a team that made the finals.  MEM gave up a lot to bring him in.

Keep in mind that BOS was going to trade Brogdon for Porzingis.  They preferred to keep Smart.  The LAC trade was plan A.  They traded Marcus to get Porzingis and two firsts, it had nothing to do with Jrue Holiday (although one of the picks was part of the deal).  I don't think the Celtics ever viewed Smart as a problem they had to get rid of.  They had a surplus of combo guards and needed more size.  Smart ended up being hurt all season so it turned out well for BOS.  But I don't buy the narrative that because Smart was a certain presence in the locker room or whatever, that it was detracting from the team or from Tatum and Brown specifically.

That said, I wonder what happens if the Brogdon deal goes through.  Do we keep Marcus?  Is the Memphis deal still there after the draft, as part of a three-way for Jrue?

With Smart instead of Holiday, I don't think we win.

Well the big question mark there is whether that has to be the swap at all or if the C's can still move Rob Williams to Portland without Smart and the first-round pick that goes to LAC with Brogdon, but I would expect the C's to have pursued Holiday regardless.

[tenn_smoothie]

I was wrong about Jaylen Brown - sorta.

He definitely improved some of his decision making with the ball. I'm curious about his season by season comparison of turnovers. It appeared to me that he did less of dribbling the ball into multiple defenders and subsequently giving the ball away. He still makes some really dumb plays, but I think he made less of them. When the offense became stagnant, he became relentless driving the ball to the basket when he saw an opening. The way he took pride this year and became our #1 on-ball defender was also impressive. I am happy for the guy.

[celticinorlando]

I was wrong about Lakers, Heat and Sixers fans handling this well.
They are in shambles.

[Roy H.]

I can honestly say that I did not fall into the traps that many other fans did.  I continued to believe in Brown and believed he could play just fine with Tatum (although I may have traded him for Durant back when that was being rumored).  I gave Mazzulla a mulligan for last season due to the circumstances but was hopeful on him and did not believe that he would be the reason for us not winning a title.  And I never bought into the narrative that the owner's are cheap.  Those were the most common "fan traps" and I was able to avoid them.

I did think we overpaid for White (although I liked the player).  Same for Holiday.  I was never critical of the trade, more neutral, I was in on Holiday from the start, just seemed like a lot to give up until both Brogdon and Williams broke down.

The final thing is one that is hard to define conclusively.  I never bought into the narrative that Smart was somehow bad for the team.  That he was impacting the development or the leadership of the J's.  I loved getting Porzingis and 2-firsts for Smart, but I am not down on Smart.  Not clear who is right on the negative Smart impact narrative.  I still see it as we won the title due to the addition of Holiday and Porzingis, not due to the subtraction of Smart.  That debate I guess will rage on.

It's not just the subtraction of Smart it's the massive upgrade to Jrue. Jrue fills in all the gaps and Smart kind of just did what he wanted to do. Some of that was good and some not.

Moreover Jrue doesn?t fly off the handle thinking he is knock down three point expert with heat checks. Smart just never was smart about shot selection.

I also helps that Jrue is a much better 3 point shooter than Smartacus...but I get it on the heat checks 

I have a lot of love for Smartacus, in his way he contributed to getting us to a position where we were able to win a championship, culminating in his being valued enough as a trade piece to get us KP in a three way trade.

I also feel that Smart leaving honestly opened up the door for Brown/tatum (and especially brown as we saw this playoff run) to become the leaders of this team.

I love smart, don't get me wrong and I was sad to see him traded. But at times I thought he viewed himself as the "leader" of the team. and brown/tatum deferred since he was the longest tenured player. We also saw Smart undermine mazzulla several times during last years playoff run....Jrue coming into a team already competing was more willing to play his "role" whatever that may be.

This is what I am getting at.  We had Smart, Brogdon, and Williams and traded them and got back Porzingis and Holiday.  You lose some talent/production (all of which ended up injured) and you bring in talent/production.  That is part of any trade.  It was never a trade of Smart for Holiday.  Smart got us Porzingis and 2 picks, I do that trade every day.

But there is this narrative (as explained by cman88) that Smart was blocking Tatum and Brown, that he was a problem for the team.  That is what is traditionally meant when you say "addition by subtraction".  That you are making the team better by subtracting a locker room problem or some other problem.  I never bought that in the case of Smart.  Smart had his warts, but he was a core part of a team that made the finals.  MEM gave up a lot to bring him in.

Keep in mind that BOS was going to trade Brogdon for Porzingis.  They preferred to keep Smart.  The LAC trade was plan A.  They traded Marcus to get Porzingis and two firsts, it had nothing to do with Jrue Holiday (although one of the picks was part of the deal).  I don't think the Celtics ever viewed Smart as a problem they had to get rid of.  They had a surplus of combo guards and needed more size.  Smart ended up being hurt all season so it turned out well for BOS.  But I don't buy the narrative that because Smart was a certain presence in the locker room or whatever, that it was detracting from the team or from Tatum and Brown specifically.

That said, I wonder what happens if the Brogdon deal goes through.  Do we keep Marcus?  Is the Memphis deal still there after the draft, as part of a three-way for Jrue?

With Smart instead of Holiday, I don't think we win.

Well the big question mark there is whether that has to be the swap at all or if the C's can still move Rob Williams to Portland without Smart and the first-round pick that goes to LAC with Brogdon, but I would expect the C's to have pursued Holiday regardless.

I'm not sure how we could have made salaries work without Smart in the deal.

[Kernewek]

I can honestly say that I did not fall into the traps that many other fans did.  I continued to believe in Brown and believed he could play just fine with Tatum (although I may have traded him for Durant back when that was being rumored).  I gave Mazzulla a mulligan for last season due to the circumstances but was hopeful on him and did not believe that he would be the reason for us not winning a title.  And I never bought into the narrative that the owner's are cheap.  Those were the most common "fan traps" and I was able to avoid them.

I did think we overpaid for White (although I liked the player).  Same for Holiday.  I was never critical of the trade, more neutral, I was in on Holiday from the start, just seemed like a lot to give up until both Brogdon and Williams broke down.

The final thing is one that is hard to define conclusively.  I never bought into the narrative that Smart was somehow bad for the team.  That he was impacting the development or the leadership of the J's.  I loved getting Porzingis and 2-firsts for Smart, but I am not down on Smart.  Not clear who is right on the negative Smart impact narrative.  I still see it as we won the title due to the addition of Holiday and Porzingis, not due to the subtraction of Smart.  That debate I guess will rage on.

It's not just the subtraction of Smart it's the massive upgrade to Jrue. Jrue fills in all the gaps and Smart kind of just did what he wanted to do. Some of that was good and some not.

Moreover Jrue doesn?t fly off the handle thinking he is knock down three point expert with heat checks. Smart just never was smart about shot selection.

I also helps that Jrue is a much better 3 point shooter than Smartacus...but I get it on the heat checks 

I have a lot of love for Smartacus, in his way he contributed to getting us to a position where we were able to win a championship, culminating in his being valued enough as a trade piece to get us KP in a three way trade.

I also feel that Smart leaving honestly opened up the door for Brown/tatum (and especially brown as we saw this playoff run) to become the leaders of this team.

I love smart, don't get me wrong and I was sad to see him traded. But at times I thought he viewed himself as the "leader" of the team. and brown/tatum deferred since he was the longest tenured player. We also saw Smart undermine mazzulla several times during last years playoff run....Jrue coming into a team already competing was more willing to play his "role" whatever that may be.

This is what I am getting at.  We had Smart, Brogdon, and Williams and traded them and got back Porzingis and Holiday.  You lose some talent/production (all of which ended up injured) and you bring in talent/production.  That is part of any trade.  It was never a trade of Smart for Holiday.  Smart got us Porzingis and 2 picks, I do that trade every day.

But there is this narrative (as explained by cman88) that Smart was blocking Tatum and Brown, that he was a problem for the team.  That is what is traditionally meant when you say "addition by subtraction".  That you are making the team better by subtracting a locker room problem or some other problem.  I never bought that in the case of Smart.  Smart had his warts, but he was a core part of a team that made the finals.  MEM gave up a lot to bring him in.

Keep in mind that BOS was going to trade Brogdon for Porzingis.  They preferred to keep Smart.  The LAC trade was plan A.  They traded Marcus to get Porzingis and two firsts, it had nothing to do with Jrue Holiday (although one of the picks was part of the deal).  I don't think the Celtics ever viewed Smart as a problem they had to get rid of.  They had a surplus of combo guards and needed more size.  Smart ended up being hurt all season so it turned out well for BOS.  But I don't buy the narrative that because Smart was a certain presence in the locker room or whatever, that it was detracting from the team or from Tatum and Brown specifically.

That said, I wonder what happens if the Brogdon deal goes through.  Do we keep Marcus?  Is the Memphis deal still there after the draft, as part of a three-way for Jrue?

With Smart instead of Holiday, I don't think we win.

Well the big question mark there is whether that has to be the swap at all or if the C's can still move Rob Williams to Portland without Smart and the first-round pick that goes to LAC with Brogdon, but I would expect the C's to have pursued Holiday regardless.

I'm not sure how we could have made salaries work without Smart in the deal.

I've not got time to look at the full numbers in front of me but Smart was on 18 something vs Brogdan's 22 something, right?

For me Boston's preferred position in this alternate timeline is pretty clear (a guard rotation of Smart, Holiday, and White) but I am not sure Portland accepts the package for Holiday if it's missing the 2024 first-rounder from Golden State (which we got in the Smart trade) and having to take on Smart's slightly less-flexible contract.

[celticinorlando]

I keep going back to how wrong I was about Joe. That guy took some major steps this year and thinks the game such in a different way.

He?s blooming into a top flight coach at 35.

[Roy H.]

I keep going back to how wrong I was about Joe. That guy took some major steps this year and thinks the game such in a different way.

He?s blooming into a top flight coach at 35.

It's going to be interesting to see how Joe progresses as time goes on.  In the Joe thread, there was a quote about how he intentionally tried to push buttons and p--- players off on purpose, to see how they'd react.  He referenced movies, martial arts, and killer whales to demonstrate his points.

Is that the type of thing players will continue to buy into?  Or, like with so many coaches, are players going to tune him out eventually?  The thing he has going for him is that the players trusted him, and that trust was rewarded with a title.  Hopefully, this is a story similar to Pops or Kerr:  the core of a team grows up with a coach, buys in, and dominates over several years.

The other thing I'm curious to see going forward:  can Brad keep the right personnel in place?  I'm not at all worried about the guard or forward positions, because it's easy to find shooters there.  But, Horford isn't immortal and KP is very likely to continue to struggle with injuries.  Who can Brad find that allows us to play five-out?

[mobilija]

I keep going back to how wrong I was about Joe. That guy took some major steps this year and thinks the game such in a different way.

He?s blooming into a top flight coach at 35.

It's going to be interesting to see how Joe progresses as time goes on.  In the Joe thread, there was a quote about how he intentionally tried to push buttons and p--- players off on purpose, to see how they'd react.  He referenced movies, martial arts, and killer whales to demonstrate his points.

Is that the type of thing players will continue to buy into?  Or, like with so many coaches, are players going to tune him out eventually?  The thing he has going for him is that the players trusted him, and that trust was rewarded with a title.  Hopefully, this is a story similar to Pops or Kerr:  the core of a team grows up with a coach, buys in, and dominates over several years.

The other thing I'm curious to see going forward:  can Brad keep the right personnel in place?  I'm not at all worried about the guard or forward positions, because it's easy to find shooters there.  But, Horford isn't immortal and KP is very likely to continue to struggle with injuries.  Who can Brad find that allows us to play five-out?

Yeah, I think the 5 spot is the crux of this teams future. We?ve  got 1 or two years where that becomes a real weakness, and next year is no gimme with injury history in mind. Brad needs to hit on a developmental prospect at that position. There are veteran players out there that would work also, Olynk comes to mind, but I don?t see how the team has the trade flexibility/assets to make something happen. Executive of the year has to keep those genius wheels turning.

[footey]

I was wrong about Jaylen Brown - sorta.

He definitely improved some of his decision making with the ball. I'm curious about his season by season comparison of turnovers. It appeared to me that he did less of dribbling the ball into multiple defenders and subsequently giving the ball away. He still makes some really dumb plays, but I think he made less of them. When the offense became stagnant, he became relentless driving the ball to the basket when he saw an opening. The way he took pride this year and became our #1 on-ball defender was also impressive. I am happy for the guy.

I guess we won despite Coach Joe, not because of him, huh?

[footey]

I keep going back to how wrong I was about Joe. That guy took some major steps this year and thinks the game such in a different way.

He?s blooming into a top flight coach at 35.

It's going to be interesting to see how Joe progresses as time goes on.  In the Joe thread, there was a quote about how he intentionally tried to push buttons and p--- players off on purpose, to see how they'd react.  He referenced movies, martial arts, and killer whales to demonstrate his points.

Is that the type of thing players will continue to buy into?  Or, like with so many coaches, are players going to tune him out eventually?  The thing he has going for him is that the players trusted him, and that trust was rewarded with a title.  Hopefully, this is a story similar to Pops or Kerr:  the core of a team grows up with a coach, buys in, and dominates over several years.

The other thing I'm curious to see going forward:  can Brad keep the right personnel in place?  I'm not at all worried about the guard or forward positions, because it's easy to find shooters there.  But, Horford isn't immortal and KP is very likely to continue to struggle with injuries.  Who can Brad find that allows us to play five-out?

Winning cures all. If they keep winning, the guys will keep listening.  #stayhumble

[celticsclay]

I was wrong Jaylen brown didn?t contribute to winning. Some poster convinced me using plus minus and I regret falling for it. I was dead wrong

[Emmette Bryant]

When Porzingis got hurt in game 2 against Dallas, I thought that it was the end of the line for the Celtics.