Mavericks (1-3) at Celtics (3-1) NBA Finals Game 5 6/17/24

[Neurotic Guy]

I know we had a couple people at the game tonight, did any of you happen to catch what JB said in his FMVP acceptance? ABC cut audio twice for a few seconds for what I'm assuming was some curse words from Jaylen lol

Here's the uncensored version

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1digzdw/jaylen_browns_first_remarks_accepting_the_finals/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

TY, TP

When Jaylen says My faith in the      ?  What is he saying?

[jpotter33]

https://x.com/frankmikesmith/status/1803132609918279874?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Will be one of the coldest Finals pictures of all time.

[jpotter33]

https://x.com/ftfonfs1/status/1803162946173870382?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Complete reversal by Nick Wright now, though at least he admitted how wrong he was.

[Phantom255x]

https://x.com/ftfonfs1/status/1803162946173870382?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Complete reversal by Nick Wright Wrong now, though at least he admitted how wrong he was.

FTFY 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm biased, of course, but my view is that the L.A. Lakers have not won 17 titles; they've won 12, and the Minneapolis Lakers won 5.

Splitting hairs? Maybe.

But is "franchise" the same as "team"? Franchise, to me, seems like nothing more than a legal entity, a piece of "officialness" that doesn't really translate to the everyday "real world" in which most people experience life.

Should present-day OKC fans claim that their team has won a title? I don't think so. Yes, the "franchise" has won a title, but why should the history and activity of the Seattle SuperSonics apply to the life of the Oklahoma City Thunder and Thunder fans?

The distinction with the Lakers might be less obvious because they kept the name "Lakers," but should basketball fans in Minnesota feel like they have 17 titles because of the 12 won in L.A.? I'd say no. In which case, it also shouldn't work in the opposite direction, with L.A. fans thinking they've won 17 titles.

Another factor complicating the issue is that the NBA doesn't treat every situation the same. For example, they give the 5 Minny Lakers titles to the L.A. Lakers, yet the history/records of the original Charlotte Hornets don't belong to the Pelicans, who used to be the Hornets, but instead were given to the newer Bobcats/Hornets franchise. By that logic, if the L.A. Lakers were to change their name, and the Timberwolves then became the Lakers, the 5 Minny titles should/would go to the new Minny Lakers.

[Kernewek]

I'm biased, of course, but my view is that the L.A. Lakers have not won 17 titles; they've won 12, and the Minneapolis Lakers won 5.

Splitting hairs? Maybe.

But is "franchise" the same as "team"? Franchise, to me, seems like nothing more than a legal entity, a piece of "officialness" that doesn't really translate to the everyday "real world" in which most people experience life.

Should present-day OKC fans claim that their team has won a title? I don't think so. Yes, the "franchise" has won a title, but why should the history and activity of the Seattle SuperSonics apply to the life of the Oklahoma City Thunder and Thunder fans?

The distinction with the Lakers might be less obvious because they kept the name "Lakers," but should basketball fans in Minnesota feel like they have 17 titles because of the 12 won in L.A.? I'd say no. In which case, it also shouldn't work in the opposite direction, with L.A. fans thinking they've won 17 titles.

Another factor complicating the issue is that the NBA doesn't treat every situation the same. For example, they give the 5 Minny Lakers titles to the L.A. Lakers, yet the history/records of the original Charlotte Hornets don't belong to the Pelicans, who used to be the Hornets, but instead were given to the newer Bobcats/Hornets franchise. By that logic, if the L.A. Lakers were to change their name, and the Timberwolves then became the Lakers, the 5 Minny titles should/would go to the new Minny Lakers.

The Thunder/Sonics situation in specific is a byproduct of the lawsuit (and subsequent acrimony) between the city of Seattle and the Bennett ownership group, but technically the records, retired jerseys misc. history,and championship do belong to OKC, both physically and 'intellectually':

The history, actually, is in Oklahoma City.

As part of the settlement between the team and the city, a "shared history" arrangement was created. All of the old Sonics' records are now the Thunder's. The championship banners, retired jerseys and the 1979 NBA championship trophy now reside in Oklahoma City.

"It's bad enough knowing that we should have Durant and Westbrook here right now," Brown said, "being the new [Gary] Payton and [Shawn] Kemp. But to see them shattering our old records ... "

https://web.archive.org/web/20190712025731/http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/12/13/morning-tip-seattle-sonics/

A Good general overview/wrap-up here:
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/nba/seattle-and-oklahoma-city-will-share-the-sonics-franchise-history


For me, I think playing it up in the KD/Westbrook era would have been rubbing salt in the wound and otherwise would generate negative press over a very underhanded relocation - and in the present day ownership doesn't see a need to rely on the Sonics' records because all the Sonics-associated players no longer play for the team and the future for the homegrown team looks bright. Plus it makes things less controversial if Seattle is ever awarded an expansion team.
-----


Whereas the Hornets/Pelicans relinquished the franchise records to the Bobcats/Hornets when the MJ-owned squad successfully changed the name:

In addition, the team announced that after collaborating with the NBA and the New Orleans Pelicans, all of the statistical information, records and history of Charlotte NBA basketball will also be returning to the franchise. The Hornets will now own and have access to all of the historical elements from not only the Bobcats era (2004-2014) but also the original Hornets era in Charlotte (1988-2002). The Pelicans will maintain the history and statistics beginning with the team?s first season in New Orleans (2002-03).

https://www.nba.com/hornets/charlotte-hornets-name-returns-carolinas

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm biased, of course, but my view is that the L.A. Lakers have not won 17 titles; they've won 12, and the Minneapolis Lakers won 5.

Splitting hairs? Maybe.

But is "franchise" the same as "team"? Franchise, to me, seems like nothing more than a legal entity, a piece of "officialness" that doesn't really translate to the everyday "real world" in which most people experience life.

Should present-day OKC fans claim that their team has won a title? I don't think so. Yes, the "franchise" has won a title, but why should the history and activity of the Seattle SuperSonics apply to the life of the Oklahoma City Thunder and Thunder fans?

The distinction with the Lakers might be less obvious because they kept the name "Lakers," but should basketball fans in Minnesota feel like they have 17 titles because of the 12 won in L.A.? I'd say no. In which case, it also shouldn't work in the opposite direction, with L.A. fans thinking they've won 17 titles.

Another factor complicating the issue is that the NBA doesn't treat every situation the same. For example, they give the 5 Minny Lakers titles to the L.A. Lakers, yet the history/records of the original Charlotte Hornets don't belong to the Pelicans, who used to be the Hornets, but instead were given to the newer Bobcats/Hornets franchise. By that logic, if the L.A. Lakers were to change their name, and the Timberwolves then became the Lakers, the 5 Minny titles should/would go to the new Minny Lakers.

The Thunder/Sonics situation in specific is a byproduct of the lawsuit (and subsequent acrimony) between the city of Seattle and the Bennett ownership group, but technically the records, retired jerseys misc. history,and championship do belong to OKC, both physically and 'intellectually':

The history, actually, is in Oklahoma City.

As part of the settlement between the team and the city, a "shared history" arrangement was created. All of the old Sonics' records are now the Thunder's. The championship banners, retired jerseys and the 1979 NBA championship trophy now reside in Oklahoma City.

"It's bad enough knowing that we should have Durant and Westbrook here right now," Brown said, "being the new [Gary] Payton and [Shawn] Kemp. But to see them shattering our old records ... "

https://web.archive.org/web/20190712025731/http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/12/13/morning-tip-seattle-sonics/

A Good general overview/wrap-up here:
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/nba/seattle-and-oklahoma-city-will-share-the-sonics-franchise-history


For me, I think playing it up in the KD/Westbrook era would have been rubbing salt in the wound and otherwise would generate negative press over a very underhanded relocation - and in the present day ownership doesn't see a need to rely on the Sonics' records because all the Sonics-associated players no longer play for the team and the future for the homegrown team looks bright. Plus it makes things less controversial if Seattle is ever awarded an expansion team.
-----


Whereas the Hornets/Pelicans relinquished the franchise records to the Bobcats/Hornets when the MJ-owned squad successfully changed the name:

In addition, the team announced that after collaborating with the NBA and the New Orleans Pelicans, all of the statistical information, records and history of Charlotte NBA basketball will also be returning to the franchise. The Hornets will now own and have access to all of the historical elements from not only the Bobcats era (2004-2014) but also the original Hornets era in Charlotte (1988-2002). The Pelicans will maintain the history and statistics beginning with the team?s first season in New Orleans (2002-03).

https://www.nba.com/hornets/charlotte-hornets-name-returns-carolinas

All of that information is factually accurate, but for me it just proves my point that "franchise" is nothing more than a legal construct that few people beyond lawyers care about. Do OKC fans really care about Sonics stuff? Not that I've heard. Would Angelenos care about the Minneapolis Lakers history if Minny hadn't won any titles? I very much doubt it.

And I don't think that things should hinge on whether a team changes its name. The current Hornets got the original Hornets stuff because they changed from Bobcats to Hornets? So if they'd stayed the Bobcats, they wouldn't have gotten the original Hornets stuff? Just a very weird way to decide the issue, IMO. The NBA should at least be consistent: In every case, either the history follows the "franchise," or it doesn't.

[W8ting2McHale]

Seattle is still salty over the Thunder getting rights to records and trophies they didn?t win. Since the possibility of expansion has resurfaced, old fans and players like Gary Payton have been calling for their return if Seattle gets a team.

And if the Lakers can claim titles won by a team with a similar name in a different city, maybe the Celtics should lay claim to the 2 consecutive ABL championships won by The Original Celtics during the 1926-27 seasons. Sure they played in Madison Square Garden and not The Garden, and the ABL predates the modern era (1925-1955) but they were Celtics (the Original Celtics!) and have 2 players in the HOF, so that holds as much relevance as those 5 Lakers trophies.

[W8ting2McHale]

I know we had a couple people at the game tonight, did any of you happen to catch what JB said in his FMVP acceptance? ABC cut audio twice for a few seconds for what I'm assuming was some curse words from Jaylen lol

Here's the uncensored version

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1digzdw/jaylen_browns_first_remarks_accepting_the_finals/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

TY, TP

When Jaylen says My faith in the      ?  What is he saying?

He was thanking Dua, the Islamic power of prayer. Basically he was saying that he had faith that God would answer his prayers.

[Neurotic Guy]

I know we had a couple people at the game tonight, did any of you happen to catch what JB said in his FMVP acceptance? ABC cut audio twice for a few seconds for what I'm assuming was some curse words from Jaylen lol

Here's the uncensored version

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1digzdw/jaylen_browns_first_remarks_accepting_the_finals/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

TY, TP

When Jaylen says My faith in the      ?  What is he saying?

He was thanking Dua, the Islamic power of prayer. Basically he was saying that he had faith that God would answer his prayers.

Thank you! 

[Phantom255x]

Some gossip news, but Tatum has been with Ella Mai for a while now and apparently last night there were some clips where it seemed to show/indicate she's pregnant. So I guess Deuce might have a sibling and Tatum will have another child soon if this is true?

[Kernewek]

All of that information is factually accurate, but for me it just proves my point that "franchise" is nothing more than a legal construct that few people beyond lawyers care about. Do OKC fans really care about Sonics stuff? Not that I've heard. Would Angelenos care about the Minneapolis Lakers history if Minny hadn't won any titles? I very much doubt it.

And I don't think that things should hinge on whether a team changes its name. The current Hornets got the original Hornets stuff because they changed from Bobcats to Hornets? So if they'd stayed the Bobcats, they wouldn't have gotten the original Hornets stuff? Just a very weird way to decide the issue, IMO. The NBA should at least be consistent: In every case, either the history follows the "franchise," or it doesn't.

Oh sure, I'm just providing some context around why it's arbitrary and inconsistent - because, as you say, it's entirely arbitrary and inconsistent. The biggest factor appears to be the circumstances surrounding the team's departure from the area (or, more cynically, the continued presence of a fanbase).

[cman88]

so Kyrie still can't play in boston.

averaged 14ppg on something like 34% and 17% from 3 shooting

[ozgod]

https://x.com/frankmikesmith/status/1803132609918279874?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Will be one of the coldest Finals pictures of all time.

I've never seen JT show as much emotion as he did at the end of that game.

[ozgod]

beating the greek freak COULD be biggest obstacle next year.

embiid? meh

bam and jimmy? meh

indy was tough and fast no doubt.

knickerbockers? could be tough.

we could face denver or OKC or minny next year in finals.

I feel like Indy is the team that we need to watch out for next season, young, exciting team with a solid future. They're actually fun to watch as a neutral too, and the games we played against them were nailbiting. Plus nobody to really hate on that team, I can't even hate Nesmith because he did that stuff when he was with us. Embiid, Bam, Jimmy, all meh. I think we exorcised all those demons this year