Celtics (3-0) at Mavericks (0-3) NBA Finals Game #4 6/14/24

[Muzzy66]

I don?t think Game 5 is guaranteed, we all know what Luka will try to do. This series won?t get to 7 though I promise you that.

Game 5 is not guaranteed. Game 6 is not guaranteed. Game 7 is definitely not guaranteed.

They have no chance man. Fold up the franchise.

No, just fire Mazzulla and trade Tatum. Rebuild!

Okay, seriously, let?s look at this mathematically. Let?s say you believe that the teams are even and every game going forward is a coin flip. Just for the sake of argument. The chance of Dallas winning the series is (1/2)^3, or 1/8.

But let?s say you think Dallas is better and has a 2/3 chance to win each game. Odds are up dramatically, right? Not so much. We are now at (2/3)^3, or 8/27. Not even 1/3.

There are no guarantees in life. It?s possible that KP has his leg amputated and JT runs off with JB to have Jrue Holiday?s love child. Outside of that, I like our odds.

lol 

yeah, I am very, very confident that this series wil be over on Monday.  I expected the Celtics to lose one game in Dallas - it's very difficult to sweep teams at this level of competition, especially against a team with two highly dynamic scorers.  There was bound to be a day when they had a fluke good game and their role players went off, and today was that game.  I just didn't expect the Celtics to stink it up quite THAT bad.  That was embarassing.

But at the end of the day, as the old saying goes, doesn't matter if you lose by 50 or by 1, it's still only a 1 in the loss column.  Celtics just need to learn from this train wreck and go back to their usual effort level to close it out in game 5.  I'm not concerned, just annoyed.

[scaryjerry]

Enjoy it Dallas. Your time is coming Monday.

If we do close out on game 5, i think JT can sneakily eke out JB as finals MVP?

Who cares?
And no I don?t give Tatum any credit or edge over anybody for putting up 15 points in a 30 point finals loss.

I absollutely give him credit - because unlike JB and the rest of the starters he at least looked like he cares about winning the game.  Nobody else does.

Nah, Tatum folded mentally early, like 1st quarter early.  Getting frustrated by the refs, not getting back on D. He might have been the 1st to quit tonight, followed by Jaylen, followed by everybody else.

Yeah I just can?t with the Tatum-centric Celtics fans.

He was abysmal tonight. Bricking step back 3s, bricking layups and complaining way too much and mentally folded almost immediately.
Brown clearly had a bad game too but I?m not giving Tatum a bump up in the mvp ranking over this. That?s insane.

Everyone was abysmal tonight. Flush it and move on.

I agree. Exactly why it?s insane to move around finals mvp rankings based on anything from that garbage. Tatum hasn?t shot well or been efficient offensively a single game In these finals including tonight

Tatum at least hasn't had a complete stinker of a game in the entire playoffs like Brown did tonight.  10 points on 3-12 shooting, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 2 turnovers in 27 minutes and his defence has been non-existent.  That could be the worst individual game of Jaylen Brown's entire career. 

Tatum has 15 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 1 steal and 2 blocks in the same 27 minutes but that doesn't even tell the full story.  He's been very clearly mauled on multiple shot attempts that never got called, and he's made mutliple good passes to teammates who have bricked open shots and layups.  He should be on 20, 5 and 6 right now if the refs and his teamates did their jobs.

Tatum has actually had a perfectly respectable game tonight.  Hauser also has been good - he's played hard on D and is showing genuine effort.  Nobody else has shown up at all.  There is no way Jaylen Brown can play like this when 100% healthy in close out finals game and get an MVP trophy for it.  This game instantly disqualifies him.

So Tatum had 5/4/1 more then jaylen browns worst game of his entire career and you?re about to swing the mvp because of it, in a 40 point loss no less?
Tatum was abysmal tonight and he?s been inefficient offensively the entire playoffs, is he even a good shooter at this point?

Firstly, an extra 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 2 blocks in 27 minutes is a pretty significant difference - especially in a game where we got slaughtered on the boards.

Secondly, this might not swing things so much iif JB had a day and night advantage over Tatum up to this point - but that isn't the case. Tatum has led the team in rebounds and assists and is only 1 or so down on points, and his ability to draw the defence is largely what has allowed guys like Brown and Jrue to get efficient shots off.  The MVP run has been very, very close so far between Tatum and Brown, with Brown probably having the slight edge due to his more efficient scoring.  But every single playoff game Tatum has always found a way to contribute to the team - tonight included.  The entire playoffs not once has he ever just completely failed to show up like Brown did tonight - that's a big deal.

Thirdly, it's not just about on paper stats.  Tatum was showing aggressiveness attacking the basket, but he kept getting fouled without calls.  Tatum was moving the ball effectively, but his teammates were bricking open shots.  Tatum was fighting hard and ripping rebounds away from opposing players - nobody else on the team showed any interest in rebounding.  It's not just the stats, its the effort.  Tatum was trying.  He was fighting.  He was playing like someone who actually wanted to win. 

JB was not.  He didn't show the slightest hint of effort in any thing he did over the entire duration of the game.  He looked lazy, he looked disinterested, he looked disoriented and he just looked like somebody who had no business being on the court. 

Jrue was bad as well - he was wreckless, had alot of turnovers, etc.  But at least Jrue LOOKED like he was trying.  The energy was there, the motivation seemed to be there, but he was just wreckless.  Brown looked asleep for 80% of his minutes.

Brown was bad and Tatum looked to be more aggressive but again, I thought he was horrible and started the game with stupid step back 3s and out of control drives just looking for fouls leading to missed layups and he continues to be inefficient offensively. Couldn?t care less if he wins mvp if the Celtics win this series because I don?t think deserving it by any stretch with his play up to this point

[blink]

Enjoy it Dallas. Your time is coming Monday.

If we do close out on game 5, i think JT can sneakily eke out JB as finals MVP?

Who cares?
And no I don?t give Tatum any credit or edge over anybody for putting up 15 points in a 30 point finals loss.

I absollutely give him credit - because unlike JB and the rest of the starters he at least looked like he cares about winning the game.  Nobody else does.

Nah, Tatum folded mentally early, like 1st quarter early.  Getting frustrated by the refs, not getting back on D. He might have been the 1st to quit tonight, followed by Jaylen, followed by everybody else.

Yeah I just can?t with the Tatum-centric Celtics fans.

He was abysmal tonight. Bricking step back 3s, bricking layups and complaining way too much and mentally folded almost immediately.
Brown clearly had a bad game too but I?m not giving Tatum a bump up in the mvp ranking over this. That?s insane.

Agreed, JT was horrible, just like the rest of the starters.   He was literally yapping at the refs 1/2 the time he was out there.   He lets them get in his head.  Just play.

[G-Bones]

Foster won't be there to save them on mon.
We won't be ice cold and they won't be super hot.

The only thing to be mad at as we missed out at making history tonight. 18 is coming and it will be the first of a.few for this team.

Enjoy the ride and appreciate what we have.

Scott Foster the fixer.  I knew we were in trouble when it was announced that he was the head ref. Crooked

[hpantazo]

I think one of their adjustments was to switch the defensive matchups for Brown and Tatum, they put the stronger defender on Brown instead of Tatum which made Tatum attack more, and Brown less. Tatum couldn't finish in the paint and was not able to set up others like he did in the first 3 games. Brown couldn't influence the game the way Tatum did in the first 3 games by distributing. They also completely shut down the points Holliday and White were getting in the paint through cuts.

[blink]

Q with two blocks in less than a minute.

He just does stuff every time he is in the game.  I wish he was a bit more polished on off, but our bigs looked bad tonight giving up literally every rebound, make that our whole team looked bad giving up every rebound, it was a team thing.

[Celtics2021]

For what it?s worth, Vegas has us as early 7.5 point favorites for Game 5. That?s huge specially for a finals game.

If I knew how to properly hedge I?d bet on Dallas, since I picked the C?s to win in 5 before the series started.  But that would be no fun and I?ll probably take the Celtics and the points if I do anything.

[Moranis]

Tatum now has 3 less points than Brown in the Finals. Pretty good chance he again leads the Celtics in points, rebounds, and assists for a series. Also may again not win the series mvp while leading the team in all 3 of those categories.

[0003323344]

Enjoy it Dallas. Your time is coming Monday.

If we do close out on game 5, i think JT can sneakily eke out JB as finals MVP?

Who cares?
And no I don?t give Tatum any credit or edge over anybody for putting up 15 points in a 30 point finals loss.

I absollutely give him credit - because unlike JB and the rest of the starters he at least looked like he cares about winning the game.  Nobody else does.

Nah, Tatum folded mentally early, like 1st quarter early.  Getting frustrated by the refs, not getting back on D. He might have been the 1st to quit tonight, followed by Jaylen, followed by everybody else.

Yeah I just can?t with the Tatum-centric Celtics fans.

He was abysmal tonight. Bricking step back 3s, bricking layups and complaining way too much and mentally folded almost immediately.
Brown clearly had a bad game too but I?m not giving Tatum a bump up in the mvp ranking over this. That?s insane.

Everyone was abysmal tonight. Flush it and move on.

I agree. Exactly why it?s insane to move around finals mvp rankings based on anything from that garbage. Tatum hasn?t shot well or been efficient offensively a single game In these finals including tonight

Tatum at least hasn't had a complete stinker of a game in the entire playoffs like Brown did tonight.  10 points on 3-12 shooting, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 2 turnovers in 27 minutes and his defence has been non-existent.  That could be the worst individual game of Jaylen Brown's entire career. 

Tatum has 15 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 1 steal and 2 blocks in the same 27 minutes but that doesn't even tell the full story.  He's been very clearly mauled on multiple shot attempts that never got called, and he's made mutliple good passes to teammates who have bricked open shots and layups.  He should be on 20, 5 and 6 right now if the refs and his teamates did their jobs.

Tatum has actually had a perfectly respectable game tonight.  Hauser also has been good - he's played hard on D and is showing genuine effort.  Nobody else has shown up at all.  There is no way Jaylen Brown can play like this when 100% healthy in close out finals game and get an MVP trophy for it.  This game instantly disqualifies him.

So Tatum had 5/4/1 more then jaylen browns worst game of his entire career and you?re about to swing the mvp because of it, in a 40 point loss no less?
Tatum was abysmal tonight and he?s been inefficient offensively the entire playoffs, is he even a good shooter at this point?

Firstly, an extra 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 2 blocks in 27 minutes is a pretty significant difference - especially in a game where we got slaughtered on the boards.

Secondly, this might not swing things so much iif JB had a day and night advantage over Tatum up to this point - but that isn't the case. Tatum has led the team in rebounds and assists and is only 1 or so down on points, and his ability to draw the defence is largely what has allowed guys like Brown and Jrue to get efficient shots off.  The MVP run has been very, very close so far between Tatum and Brown, with Brown probably having the slight edge due to his more efficient scoring.  But every single playoff game Tatum has always found a way to contribute to the team - tonight included.  The entire playoffs not once has he ever just completely failed to show up like Brown did tonight - that's a big deal.

Thirdly, it's not just about on paper stats.  Tatum was showing aggressiveness attacking the basket, but he kept getting fouled without calls.  Tatum was moving the ball effectively, but his teammates were bricking open shots.  Tatum was fighting hard and ripping rebounds away from opposing players - nobody else on the team showed any interest in rebounding.  It's not just the stats, its the effort.  Tatum was trying.  He was fighting.  He was playing like someone who actually wanted to win. 

JB was not.  He didn't show the slightest hint of effort in any thing he did over the entire duration of the game.  He looked lazy, he looked disinterested, he looked disoriented and he just looked like somebody who had no business being on the court. 

Jrue was bad as well - he was wreckless, had alot of turnovers, etc.  But at least Jrue LOOKED like he was trying.  The energy was there, the motivation seemed to be there, but he was just wreckless.  Brown looked asleep for 80% of his minutes.

Brown was bad and Tatum looked to be more aggressive but again, I thought he was horrible and started the game with stupid step back 3s and out of control drives just looking for fouls leading to missed layups and he continues to be inefficient offensively. Couldn?t care less if he wins mvp if the Celtics win this series because I don?t think deserving it by any stretch with his play up to this point

Hasn't Tatum learned not to do this by now?

[scaryjerry]

The Celtics, in their Finals history, have lost six times by 20 or more points. In the ensuing game, Boston is 5-1.

1963, L by 20, W 108-105
1964, L by 24, W 98-95
1965, L by 21, W 112-99
1984, L by 33, W 129-125
1985, L by 25, W 107-105
2010, L by 22, L 83-79

Means virtually nothing and will have 0 impact on Monday nights game

And neither will this loss. Every game is its own season. Have faith. After Monday you can worry about free agency or the draft.

You being as overly optimistic as you are when you?re the ?master of panic? has me questioning things?because frankly you?re normally wrong about everything

Whatever you say man. You have been waiting all season for this team to fall to pieces. I think they win it Monday. You don't. It is what it is.

But you are overly critical of this team even when they play well or win. They lost tonight. Wasn't good enough.
But maybe see how they respond Monday.

I don?t have a prediction for Monday night. I?m certainly not confident. Hoping for the best but definitely nervous.
Can?t just throw away finals games with 0 effort when there?s a trophy in the building.

[scaryjerry]

Tatum now has 3 less points than Brown in the Finals. Pretty good chance he again leads the Celtics in points, rebounds, and assists for a series. Also may again not win the series mvp while leading the team in all 3 of those categories.

He?s also completely inefficient, forgot how to shoot and misses more layups than anyone I?ve ever seen. Thought he was wild tonight and jacking up step back 3s immediately probably hunting a good game because we all know he wants that mvp. He complained more than Luka tonight too. Pretty painful.

[0003323344]

Well that sucked. I thought for sure the Celtics would come out swinging and bring banner 18 home. Now we have to wait 3 long days and who knows whats going to happen in game 5. Hey Celtics do you really want to go back to Dallas for game 6? wow

[tenn_smoothie]

Yeah I think Luka's winning Finals MVP whether Dallas wins the series or not lol

Without a doubt the best player on both teams.

LOL- Yeah, 1-3 and plays no defense. Wish we could trade places and be down 1-3 with best player. 🤣

It's completely expected at this point, but some of the lengths some posters go to in losses is just astounding.

Luka as Finals MVP when he has historically poor defensive numbers and is getting gentleman's swept is...... some take.

I think that "take" was just sarcasm. You get every bit as angry with this team as anyone here, including me.

[hpantazo]

On the bright side, did anyone expect us to sweep the Finals before this started? Winning in 5 or 6 games was most people's hope.

[Muzzy66]

Enjoy it Dallas. Your time is coming Monday.

If we do close out on game 5, i think JT can sneakily eke out JB as finals MVP?

Who cares?
And no I don?t give Tatum any credit or edge over anybody for putting up 15 points in a 30 point finals loss.

I absollutely give him credit - because unlike JB and the rest of the starters he at least looked like he cares about winning the game.  Nobody else does.

Nah, Tatum folded mentally early, like 1st quarter early.  Getting frustrated by the refs, not getting back on D. He might have been the 1st to quit tonight, followed by Jaylen, followed by everybody else.

Yeah I just can?t with the Tatum-centric Celtics fans.

He was abysmal tonight. Bricking step back 3s, bricking layups and complaining way too much and mentally folded almost immediately.
Brown clearly had a bad game too but I?m not giving Tatum a bump up in the mvp ranking over this. That?s insane.

Everyone was abysmal tonight. Flush it and move on.

I agree. Exactly why it?s insane to move around finals mvp rankings based on anything from that garbage. Tatum hasn?t shot well or been efficient offensively a single game In these finals including tonight

Tatum at least hasn't had a complete stinker of a game in the entire playoffs like Brown did tonight.  10 points on 3-12 shooting, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 2 turnovers in 27 minutes and his defence has been non-existent.  That could be the worst individual game of Jaylen Brown's entire career. 

Tatum has 15 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 1 steal and 2 blocks in the same 27 minutes but that doesn't even tell the full story.  He's been very clearly mauled on multiple shot attempts that never got called, and he's made mutliple good passes to teammates who have bricked open shots and layups.  He should be on 20, 5 and 6 right now if the refs and his teamates did their jobs.

Tatum has actually had a perfectly respectable game tonight.  Hauser also has been good - he's played hard on D and is showing genuine effort.  Nobody else has shown up at all.  There is no way Jaylen Brown can play like this when 100% healthy in close out finals game and get an MVP trophy for it.  This game instantly disqualifies him.

So Tatum had 5/4/1 more then jaylen browns worst game of his entire career and you?re about to swing the mvp because of it, in a 40 point loss no less?
Tatum was abysmal tonight and he?s been inefficient offensively the entire playoffs, is he even a good shooter at this point?

Firstly, an extra 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 2 blocks in 27 minutes is a pretty significant difference - especially in a game where we got slaughtered on the boards.

Secondly, this might not swing things so much iif JB had a day and night advantage over Tatum up to this point - but that isn't the case. Tatum has led the team in rebounds and assists and is only 1 or so down on points, and his ability to draw the defence is largely what has allowed guys like Brown and Jrue to get efficient shots off.  The MVP run has been very, very close so far between Tatum and Brown, with Brown probably having the slight edge due to his more efficient scoring.  But every single playoff game Tatum has always found a way to contribute to the team - tonight included.  The entire playoffs not once has he ever just completely failed to show up like Brown did tonight - that's a big deal.

Thirdly, it's not just about on paper stats.  Tatum was showing aggressiveness attacking the basket, but he kept getting fouled without calls.  Tatum was moving the ball effectively, but his teammates were bricking open shots.  Tatum was fighting hard and ripping rebounds away from opposing players - nobody else on the team showed any interest in rebounding.  It's not just the stats, its the effort.  Tatum was trying.  He was fighting.  He was playing like someone who actually wanted to win. 

JB was not.  He didn't show the slightest hint of effort in any thing he did over the entire duration of the game.  He looked lazy, he looked disinterested, he looked disoriented and he just looked like somebody who had no business being on the court. 

Jrue was bad as well - he was wreckless, had alot of turnovers, etc.  But at least Jrue LOOKED like he was trying.  The energy was there, the motivation seemed to be there, but he was just wreckless.  Brown looked asleep for 80% of his minutes.

Brown was bad and Tatum looked to be more aggressive but again, I thought he was horrible and started the game with stupid step back 3s and out of control drives just looking for fouls leading to missed layups and he continues to be inefficient offensively. Couldn?t care less if he wins mvp if the Celtics win this series because I don?t think deserving it by any stretch with his play up to this point

For the NBA finals so far:

• Brown: 20.8 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 4.8 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.3 TOPG, 49% FG, 24% 3PT, 71% FT, -6
  
• Tatum: 20.0 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 6.3 AGP, 0.8 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.5 TOPG, 36% FG, 29% 3PT, 89% FT, -15
  

For the overall playoffs:

• Brown: 25 PPG, 6 RPG, 4 APG, 54% FG, +68 (6th)
  
• Tatum: 25 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.2 AGP, 43% FG, +129 (1st)
  

I think Tatum has clearly been the better player overall during this playoff run. 

In the finals it's been much closer and is pretty much a coin toss - and given how close the overall finals rush to MVP is, JB's stinker of a game today is enough to lean my vote in Tatum's favour. 

Unless JB absolutely dominates to the tune of 35+ points in the next game, or Tatum has a total stinker like JB did today, my vote right now goes to Tatum.