NFL 2024-25 Season

[SparzWizard]

Wish the Ravens had beat the Bills. They wouldve put up a much better fight. Buffalo has a completely trash defense and no playmakers besides Allen and Cook.

Ravens couldn't even beat the Bills they'd choke their way in Arrowhead like they always do in every playoff post-Ray Lewis.

Is Tom Brady or Joe Burrow the only two QBs who can beat this dang Mahomes guy?

[johnnygreen]

Wish the Ravens had beat the Bills. They wouldve put up a much better fight. Buffalo has a completely trash defense and no playmakers besides Allen and Cook.

Someone had to win that Ravens v Bills game, as they have both been chocking dogs come playoff time. No Way the Ravens would've had a chance tonight.

[Goldstar88]

Well, that game went as expected. Unfortunately. 

[Donoghus]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

[johnnygreen]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

[Roy H.]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

[johnnygreen]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

[Roy H.]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

[johnnygreen]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

Lol, the game was decided by human error. Not by the referees, but the Buffalo Bills. That team was destined to find a way to lose that game.

[Roy H.]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

Lol, the game was decided by human error. Not by the referees, but the Buffalo Bills. That team was destined to find a way to lose that game.

Okay, so you have no principled argument, you just dislike the Bills.

[johnnygreen]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

Lol, the game was decided by human error. Not by the referees, but the Buffalo Bills. That team was destined to find a way to lose that game.

Okay, so you have no principled argument, you just dislike the Bills.

The QB sneak is inherently a bad play call, when your essentially hiding the ball and relying on referees to spot the ball that they potentially can't see.

I don't think the ball should have a chip in it either. Just like I don't want umpires replaced in baseball for balls and strikes. Plus, could you imagine the nightmare of seeing referees spotting a ball with a chip? The referees will be on the field with a ruler because the replay booth is telling them the chip is indicating the ball needs to be moved another 3/8 of an inch.

People are acting like the Bills would have found a way to win that game if they got that first down. I'm sorry, I just didn't see it happening.

[SparzWizard]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

Lol, the game was decided by human error. Not by the referees, but the Buffalo Bills. That team was destined to find a way to lose that game.

Okay, so you have no principled argument, you just dislike the Bills.

The QB sneak is inherently a bad play call, when your essentially hiding the ball and relying on referees to spot the ball that they potentially can't see.

I don't think the ball should have a chip in it either. Just like I don't want umpires replaced in baseball for balls and strikes. Plus, could you imagine the nightmare of seeing referees spotting a ball with a chip? The referees will be on the field with a ruler because the replay booth is telling them the chip is indicating the ball needs to be moved another 3/8 of an inch.

People are acting like the Bills would have found a way to win that game if they got that first down. I'm sorry, I just didn't see it happening.

Would've had new set of downs and chance to put up 3, 7 or 8 on the boards. Big difference and momentum shifter

[Goldstar88]

I still can't get over that spot.  Just utter ridiculousness that in 2025, the NFL is still relying on human judgement on a measurement like that.

The Worthy catch/non-catch was pretty iffy itself but less infuriating that that 4th down spot.

As for the spot of the football, that was a great spot for real time game action. Everyone is an arm-chair referee when they can see slow motion replays. The actual on the field referees don't have that luxury, until a review is called for. As for the replay, there was no clear evidence to overturn the call, as there was no clear view of the ball. There is a certain uncertainty when running a QB sneak, as it's difficult to see the ball.

How hard would it be to put pinpoint location sensors in the ball, I wonder?

Why not just play a video game at that point?

How does getting the call right equate it a video game?

I don't think fans want games decided by human error.

Lol, the game was decided by human error. Not by the referees, but the Buffalo Bills. That team was destined to find a way to lose that game.

Okay, so you have no principled argument, you just dislike the Bills.

The QB sneak is inherently a bad play call, when your essentially hiding the ball and relying on referees to spot the ball that they potentially can't see.

I don't think the ball should have a chip in it either. Just like I don't want umpires replaced in baseball for balls and strikes. Plus, could you imagine the nightmare of seeing referees spotting a ball with a chip? The referees will be on the field with a ruler because the replay booth is telling them the chip is indicating the ball needs to be moved another 3/8 of an inch.

People are acting like the Bills would have found a way to win that game if they got that first down. I'm sorry, I just didn't see it happening.

The Bills only lost by 3 points, so the officials giving KC the benefit of the doubt on almost every 50/50 call certainly had an impact on the game.

[Donoghus]

Good read from ProFootballTalk

All-Star crew dynamics might have impacted key spot in Bills-Chiefs
By
Mike Florio
 
Published January 27, 2025 01:23 PM
The process of spotting a ball on a short-yardage play is part science, part art, part dance.

On one side of the field is the Line Judge. Standing on the opposite side of the field is the Down Judge. After the play ends, they begin their walk to the middle of the field on the spot they?ve each identified. If, as they approach each other, it becomes apparent they?re in two different spots, one defers to the other and they meet in what becomes the official spot.

Sometimes, one of the officials will express more forcefully than the other (with words or gestures) a certain degree of confidence in the spot. The other one will have to decide, in a split second, whether to agree or to push back.

On the critical fourth down from Sunday night?s Bills-Chiefs games, the official at the top of the screen was Line Judge Jeff Seeman (standing to the far left in the photo). The official at the bottom of the screen was Down Judge Patrick Holt.

After the play ends, Seeman walks to the scrum on his spot ? the near side of the 40. It?s an indication that Seeman believed Bills quarterback Josh Allen had gotten a first down. Holt, however, was on the far side of the 40, short of the line to gain. And Seeman yielded his spot to Holt?s.

If Holt had deferred to Seeman, the Buffalo drive would have continued.

It?s that simple. Two officials had two different spots, and one gave way to the other.

In this specific case, the guy who had a potential view of the ball gave in to the guy who couldn?t have seen it through Allen?s back. So why did Seeman defer to Holt?

When the postseason starts, the NFL reshuffles crews that have worked together for the entire season. Before Sunday, Holt and Seeman had no history of working together in the 2024 season.

In the regular season, Seeman worked on Shawn Smith?s crew. Holt worked on Shawn Hochuli?s crew. For the NFC Championship, Seeman and Holt were added to a crew led by Clete Blakeman.

(None of Seeman?s regular-season crew members worked with him on Sunday. Holt had worked throughout the regular season with umpire Terry Killens, Jr.)

Regardless of how or why it happened, Seeman gave up his spot to Holt. Even though the ball was facing Seeman, not Holt.

It?s a very tangible example of the various flaws inherent to the current system of spotting the ball. It?s not just what two eyes have seen. It?s what four eyes saw, with two of those eyes potentially surrendering to the other two eyes while the two officials make their way to the middle of the field.

Surely, there?s a better way of making such critical decisions

[SparzWizard]

Ridiculous lol. Seeman was correct, but surrendered to Holt. Buffalo got robbed on a new set of downs and 3-7 points.

Start integrating AI. Install AI chips in the football and the down line sensors will pick up where the ball is. Better than relying on human eyes, nevermind, four human eyes.