Finals Game 1 MVP Poll: BOS 107 DAL 89

[celticsclay]

Do people think we win the last round in 5 games without brown, who was mvp of the series? I obviously see who is driving the brown doesn’t impact winning debate still, but still a bit surprising after last series

[Moranis]

I voted Tatum and Porzingis. Tatum was making all of the right plays early on, including continually feeding Zinger in that 1st quarter.  Boston won the game in the first 12 minutes and those 2 set the tone and the pace.

Tatum was +19 in 42 minutes and the team was -1 in the 6 minutes he was on the bench. Jrue was +20 in his 35 minutes and Zinger was +13 in his 20 minutes.  Those 3 are the reason Boston won and I felt Tatum and Zinger were better than Jrue in the 1st quarter, which is why I just went with those 2 and didn't include Jrue.  Brown continues to play well, but the team was again better when he was on the bench. He just doesn't impact the result.

When you say they were better with him on the bench in this game what do you mean? He was a +12 basically the same as Porzingis. I agree Tatum is the better player and impacts winning more, but tough to say Brown didn’t impact the team positively when they were a +12 when he was out there. You are basically punishing him for being on the same team as Tatum.

It’s an argument he won’t let go of. He watches Brown score, defend, block shots and still doesn’t see his impact.  3 steals and 3 blocks in this one.  The Doncic steal, the Kyrie block, and his third quarter 3 were all huge.  But the team was -1 in the 6 minutes Tatum was on the bench so therefore Brown doesn’t impact winning.

If anything it just shows a really small sample of Tatumless time because he played so many minutes.  You also need to take into account who was on the floor/bench during those minutes for Dallas.

full playoffs on/off differential per 100 possessions

Brown -11.4

How about playoffs last year

Brown -7.1

Or year before

Brown -1.5

Or maybe 2020

Brown -4.7

Or 2019

Brown -16.3

Or 2018

Brown -0.1

What about that rookie year, hey a positive as a bench player

Brown +1.3

Clearly the overall trend is that Brown has gotten worse just about every year.

less impactful in the playoffs.  Skill and ability is not the same thing.  Brown is a top 25 player in the league, but it doesn't mean he impacts the team all that much.  He isn't the guy that drives Boston's wins and losses. Whether he plays poorly or really well doesn't matter all that much. It has been that way for years.  There are of course games where he plays a major role on the impact, but those are not common.

[scaryjerry]

Browns been better in the playoffs than Tatum and a better leader. Don’t care what your numbers  say.

[radiohead]

https://youtu.be/VoFuTn1GL2w?si=7ebinsIBBoUI4Bfo

Here’s a great breakdown of how Dallas is defending JT. I’m not saying he’s the game 1 MVP, but his “gravity” really allows his teammates to get wide open shots, be it from direct passes or hockey assists. I think JB gets the game 1 MVP but JT has a lot to do with that. And I’m really happy he’s been a willing passer in these situations. Younger JT would have gone 1 vs 3 and attempted to score on those situations.

[celticsclay]

I voted Tatum and Porzingis. Tatum was making all of the right plays early on, including continually feeding Zinger in that 1st quarter.  Boston won the game in the first 12 minutes and those 2 set the tone and the pace.

Tatum was +19 in 42 minutes and the team was -1 in the 6 minutes he was on the bench. Jrue was +20 in his 35 minutes and Zinger was +13 in his 20 minutes.  Those 3 are the reason Boston won and I felt Tatum and Zinger were better than Jrue in the 1st quarter, which is why I just went with those 2 and didn't include Jrue.  Brown continues to play well, but the team was again better when he was on the bench. He just doesn't impact the result.

When you say they were better with him on the bench in this game what do you mean? He was a +12 basically the same as Porzingis. I agree Tatum is the better player and impacts winning more, but tough to say Brown didn’t impact the team positively when they were a +12 when he was out there. You are basically punishing him for being on the same team as Tatum.

It’s an argument he won’t let go of. He watches Brown score, defend, block shots and still doesn’t see his impact.  3 steals and 3 blocks in this one.  The Doncic steal, the Kyrie block, and his third quarter 3 were all huge.  But the team was -1 in the 6 minutes Tatum was on the bench so therefore Brown doesn’t impact winning.

If anything it just shows a really small sample of Tatumless time because he played so many minutes.  You also need to take into account who was on the floor/bench during those minutes for Dallas.

full playoffs on/off differential per 100 possessions

Brown -11.4

How about playoffs last year

Brown -7.1

Or year before

Brown -1.5

Or maybe 2020

Brown -4.7

Or 2019

Brown -16.3

Or 2018

Brown -0.1

What about that rookie year, hey a positive as a bench player

Brown +1.3

Clearly the overall trend is that Brown has gotten worse just about every year.

less impactful in the playoffs.  Skill and ability is not the same thing.  Brown is a top 25 player in the league, but it doesn't mean he impacts the team all that much.  He isn't the guy that drives Boston's wins and losses. Whether he plays poorly or really well doesn't matter all that much. It has been that way for years.  There are of course games where he plays a major role on the impact, but those are not common.

Mo I know we but heads at times, but I do really respect some of the points you make and your knowledge of the game historically. All that being said, we are three wins from the championship can we get a break from the off on stuff with brown? We can talk about it all summer even if we win.