Poll

Who Wins?

Mavs in 4
0 (0%)
Mavs in 5
0 (0%)
Mavs in 6
2 (2.2%)
Mavs in 7
3 (3.3%)
Celtics in 4
2 (2.2%)
Celtics in 5
36 (40%)
Celtics in 6
39 (43.3%)
Celtics in 7
8 (8.9%)

Total Members Voted: 90

Author Topic: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions  (Read 43848 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #150 on: June 02, 2024, 08:08:59 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37082
  • Tommy Points: 3380
  • On To Banner 19!
Last three nba finals the team that has won game one has lost the series.

Phoenix
Boston
Miami

So I'm gonna be real, I picked Boston in 6, but I think they lose Game 1  :-X

Feels like rust is gonna be a factor at least in Game 1. I mean hell, this weekend has lowkey felt like a "June offseason", feels like AGES since there's even been an NBA game lol.

I picked the Celtics in 6 also. I think this team wins game one and loses game 2.

I’m not worried about rust because Dallas has been off almost as long also.

Funny enough I'm way more confident they win Game 2  :laugh:

But hey, if they can go up 2-0 in the series I'd be ecstatic.

If they can go to Dallas up 2-0….that would be massive

Being up 2-0 isn't safe as the Knicks shown. Even the Suns were up 2-0 before losing four straight to the Bucks in the Finals. Think Dallas might be the more challenging opponent than Denver

Maybe not but it'd be awesome for my mental health lol.

And I doubt DAL could have a 4-1 stretch against BOS which they'd need if they fall behind 2-0. Dallas' best chance to win the series is splitting at Boston, then winning all their home games.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #151 on: June 02, 2024, 09:07:25 PM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4855
  • Tommy Points: 386
C's lose game 1.  Win games 2 and 3. Lose games 4 and 5.  Win games 6 and 7.


Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2024, 09:22:24 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18748
  • Tommy Points: 1527
Here's some quotes from the Lowe article on ESPN, you do need a sub to ESPN+ to view it. He was breaking down the Xs and Os of the Celtics defense which he feels is good enough to win a championship, even if our offense, being heavily predicated on the 3 point shot, misfires. It's a great article if you can access it, I feel like Lowe is one of the better sports journalists out there and he has an ability to simplify schemes and Xs and Os.

He has a lot of short video clips (10-15 sec) to illustrate what he's talking about as well which really show how well this team is drilled - as Lowe said "In their three series, the Celtics reached a higher gear on defense when they needed to. They elevated into a state of controlled frenzy, smothering every option, moving as one entity, responding to every opposing two-man action with the precise right read. So much of great defense lies in the absence of mistakes -- in two defenders intersecting at full speed and deciding together, without a word, to do nothing fancy." It's not easy to be so fluid with a switch heavy defense and make so few mistakes with it happening so often, every player on the team that gets on the court needing to know exactly where they should be whatever the opposition decides to do. (I suspect the absence of some players might be due to the fact that this action becomes less smooth when they are on the court:)

https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/gifs/mp4/CLE_BOS___GIF1_2gif.mp4
https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/gifs/mp4/Celtics_Pacers_4th_Gif_2gif.mp4

Here he was talking about how the Celtics could combat the Doncic pick and roll with its switch-heavy defense.

Quote
Whenever they can, the Celtics so far in these playoffs have inverted matchups so that their centers defend non-threatening perimeter players -- leaving their armada of wings to guard the opponent's go-to screen-setters, and switch all pick-and-rolls. It is a tactic they embraced during their 2022 Finals run under former head coach Ime Udoka, with Robert Williams III nominally guarding punchless wings -- acting as rover, and allowing faster Boston defenders to switch pick-and-rolls.

Tatum guarded Evan Mobley for much of the conference semifinals, with Horford "guarding" Isaac Okoro. The Cavs could not find any consistent answers.

The Mavericks present a challenge at an entirely different level than what Boston has faced in the last six weeks.

The Mavericks do not play any lineups against which Boston can safely switch everything. Their least dynamic offensive players can do more than their equivalents on Miami, Cleveland and Indiana.

In past matchups against Dallas, for instance, the Celtics have stashed their centers on P.J. Washington and Derrick Jones Jr. -- sticking wings on Dereck Lively II, Daniel Gafford and (when the Mavs have downsized) Maxi Kleber. If the Doncic/Lively pick-and-roll involves Brown and Tatum, that's a natural switch -- though Boston will have to be careful protecting the defensive glass.

The same could be true of an Irving/Lively two-man action that starts with Holiday on Irving and Tatum on Lively. Holiday and Brown can switch the Irving/Doncic two-man game. That switch gets dicier if White begins on Irving; Doncic has the size to bully White.

The point is that if Doncic wants to go after Boston's centers, he has to use someone other than Lively and Gafford as his screener to do it. That leaves those big men to linger around the basket; if Doncic's pick-and-roll partner -- Jones, Washington, Josh Green, whoever -- darts to the rim, they are rumbling into heavy traffic. A lot of lob dunks evaporate.


He also expects the Mavs, and Doncic, to do this in response, which the Cs will then have to adapt to (and will cause some hand-wringing for us on the game threads):

Quote
Doncic has seen many variants of this scheme over many years. He and the Mavericks know the counters. Washington can pop for 3s. They can run sideline pick-and-rolls to stretch Boston's defense. If Boston's centers drop back against any Doncic-Washington or Doncic-Jones pick-and-roll, that opens up an entire subset of Doncic's game -- floaters, step-back 3s, those prodding deceleration dribbles that clear space for midrangers.

The Celtics are loath to double-team. They prefer to keep their big men back on the pick-and-roll -- allowing perimeter defenders to stay home on shooters. Lots of Dallas opponents enter games with those same tenets. One quarter jousting with Doncic, and they rethink everything.

Doncic is also a genius at coaxing the very switches these matchup gambits are designed to avoid. You can put your lumbering bigs wherever you want; Doncic will find them, draw them out and lure them into one-on-one matchups they can't win. The only sustained success the Cavaliers and Pacers had on offense against Boston -- and it didn't last long -- was when Mitchell, Haliburton and Pascal Siakam attacked Horford and Luke Kornet on switches. Doncic resides in another stratosphere.

Boston will have to adapt and adjust within each game.

His conclusion? It won't be pretty, but if the Cs execute their defense throughout the game, not just in patches, they should be able to handle anything the Mavs can throw at them.

Quote
The time for Boston is now. There will be games in the next two weeks when its 3-point-shooting machine runs cold. Dallas has been an elite defense for three-plus months now and will meet that shooting machine with one of the league's meanest, smartest units.

Boston's defense can match or exceed the Mavs'. It can carry Boston to those gutsy, ugly wins every team needs to win the Finals -- provided that defense can bring peak intensity and focus every minute of every game. It can't be for stretches, when Boston falls behind or feels threatened. The Mavs are too good.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40247501/lowe-why-boston-celtics-fallback-actually-their-history-making-offense-nba-finals

The $64m question is, can they maintain that defensive intensity and focus for every game, all 48 minutes?
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #153 on: June 03, 2024, 06:26:57 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5530
  • Tommy Points: 397
Last three nba finals the team that has won game one has lost the series.

Phoenix
Boston
Miami

So I'm gonna be real, I picked Boston in 6, but I think they lose Game 1  :-X

Feels like rust is gonna be a factor at least in Game 1. I mean hell, this weekend has lowkey felt like a "June offseason", feels like AGES since there's even been an NBA game lol.

I picked the Celtics in 6 also. I think this team wins game one and loses game 2.

I’m not worried about rust because Dallas has been off almost as long also.

Funny enough I'm way more confident they win Game 2  :laugh:

But hey, if they can go up 2-0 in the series I'd be ecstatic.

If they can go to Dallas up 2-0….that would be massive

Being up 2-0 isn't safe as the Knicks shown. Even the Suns were up 2-0 before losing four straight to the Bucks in the Finals. Think Dallas might be the more challenging opponent than Denver

Big difference is Boston is really good on the road.
Denver was the toughest match up for Boston.

dallas will be tough but Denver was our toughest matchup...just because dallas beat Minnesota who beat denver...doesnt mean that denver is an easier matchup. theres no answer for Jokic. sure Luca/Kyrie are amazing. but you have guys you can throw at them to at least somewhat slow them down. you have no one for Jokic

NBA is all about how teams match up with one another. its why Minnesota matched up well with denver being able to throw two 7 footers on Jokic and disrupt their offensive rhythm.

but its also why Dallas was a horrible matchup against their lumbering bigs. (also didnt help that KAT pulled a no-show first 3 games). minnesota also didn't have enough 3 pt shooting to punish dallas when they collapsed on the paint.

something dallas cant do against boston.

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #154 on: June 03, 2024, 06:36:12 AM »

Online Birdman

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10314
  • Tommy Points: 465
Amaze me that’s most of all the experts are picking Dallas..no doubt Luka & Kyrie has been great but now they facing a different better defensive backcourt in Holiday, White & Brown..plus Dallas hasn’t been putting up lots of points due to they only got 2 scorers in Kyrie
& Luka..heck we got 6 that can score over 25 anytime…can Dallas win it all, of course they can but if Celtics come to play, Dallas not winning
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #155 on: June 03, 2024, 07:43:13 AM »

Offline michigan adam

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 251
  • Tommy Points: 19
Last three nba finals the team that has won game one has lost the series.

Phoenix
Boston
Miami

So I'm gonna be real, I picked Boston in 6, but I think they lose Game 1  :-X

Feels like rust is gonna be a factor at least in Game 1. I mean hell, this weekend has lowkey felt like a "June offseason", feels like AGES since there's even been an NBA game lol.

I picked the Celtics in 6 also. I think this team wins game one and loses game 2.

I’m not worried about rust because Dallas has been off almost as long also.

Funny enough I'm way more confident they win Game 2  :laugh:

But hey, if they can go up 2-0 in the series I'd be ecstatic.

If they can go to Dallas up 2-0….that would be massive

Being up 2-0 isn't safe as the Knicks shown. Even the Suns were up 2-0 before losing four straight to the Bucks in the Finals. Think Dallas might be the more challenging opponent than Denver

Big difference is Boston is really good on the road.
Denver was the toughest match up for Boston.

dallas will be tough but Denver was our toughest matchup...just because dallas beat Minnesota who beat denver...doesnt mean that denver is an easier matchup. theres no answer for Jokic. sure Luca/Kyrie are amazing. but you have guys you can throw at them to at least somewhat slow them down. you have no one for Jokic

NBA is all about how teams match up with one another. its why Minnesota matched up well with denver being able to throw two 7 footers on Jokic and disrupt their offensive rhythm.

but its also why Dallas was a horrible matchup against their lumbering bigs. (also didnt help that KAT pulled a no-show first 3 games). minnesota also didn't have enough 3 pt shooting to punish dallas when they collapsed on the paint.

something dallas cant do against boston.

I think the key to the series is making KI and LD play both ends of the floor on every play.  The C's need to move the ball a little more and run some plays before they jack up the 3's.  I'm not saying don't shoot the threes, but make those guys play 10 seconds on D every time before you do.  Tire them out and get them in foul trouble.  Those two are the entire Dallas Offense, and they are so horrible on D that is how you need to attack them.  They will get their points, but if they have to work 10 or 20% harder on the other end they will be less creative and less efficient.  That is all the C's need.  That Duo is well below average as defenders.  Don't let them hide on D.  The good news is the C's have 4-5 players who play strong both ways on the floor the entire game.  In the rotation, only PP, LK and SH are "one way" players, and Kornet isn't going to play much if KP is back.  Pick the PP minutes when one of KI and LD isn't on the floor.  C's in 5.

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #156 on: June 03, 2024, 08:21:27 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32877
  • Tommy Points: 843
  • Larry Bird for President
Ugh. Three days still until game one. This series is going to take forever with the days off in between.

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #157 on: June 03, 2024, 08:25:56 AM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31743
  • Tommy Points: 3846
  • Yup
Ugh. Three days still until game one. This series is going to take forever with the days off in between.

Oh good Lord!  I already told my wife and daughter that I could not do something on Tuesday because it’s game one.  Uggh…Stupid sweep making us wait forever between games. 

Yup

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #158 on: June 03, 2024, 08:32:32 AM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31743
  • Tommy Points: 3846
  • Yup
Amaze me that’s most of all the experts are picking Dallas..no doubt Luka & Kyrie has been great but now they facing a different better defensive backcourt in Holiday, White & Brown..plus Dallas hasn’t been putting up lots of points due to they only got 2 scorers in Kyrie
& Luka..heck we got 6 that can score over 25 anytime…can Dallas win it all, of course they can but if Celtics come to play, Dallas not winning

Books are  still -220 on the Celtics.  Don’t believe the media hype.  Or let them yap.  Celts are the better, deeper team and should win this series.
Yup

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #159 on: June 03, 2024, 08:51:08 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32877
  • Tommy Points: 843
  • Larry Bird for President
Media esp espn needs and wants clicks and attention on the series. Their minions have been given their marching orders to hype up the mavs.

Dallas is a good team that also had some good fortune along the way. Missing Leonard for most of the clippers series, getting a very young and inexperienced Thunder team that just wasn’t really ready. And then a slow wolves team that could not space the floor well enough to beat Dallas.

Boston has a top 8 that plays regularly that can hit 3s consistently. Boston has two very good three point shooters in Tatum and Hauser that have yet to find their level from 3. This doesn’t even take into consideration that KP hasn’t played.

The time off will help Luka’s rickety knees but prolonged time off can take you out of rhythm shooting. He was on a heater and probably wanted to keep rolling.

I still am not sure how Dallas can defend the Celtics. They cannot help off anyone and Luka standing in the lane not guarding anyone in particular won’t fly this series.

Celtics in 5 or 6 seems right. Dallas isn’t a team that blows you out. They stay attached, get turnovers and then try to steal it in the end. Minnesota had a lot of opportunities to win games 1-3. Five was really the only blow out.

For Dallas to win this series it’s going to take the Celtics helping them out quite a bit. Boston has been much better this year closing out games. The turnovers aren’t nearly as bad at the worst time. Luka is fantastic offensively and Kyrie is good also…but Kyrie can disappear for long stretches and will have to defend this series.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 08:56:43 AM by celticinorlando »

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #160 on: June 03, 2024, 09:07:53 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5530
  • Tommy Points: 397
At the end of the day I think our role players after the top 2 are a lot better than theirs especially if KP is good to go

Porzingis/holiday/white/horford it’s really no contest. And who knows maybe Hauser breaks out his slump.

There’s no fully stopping Kyrie/luka but on the other end, how does Dallas stop our offense?

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #161 on: June 03, 2024, 11:04:37 AM »

Online Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13614
  • Tommy Points: 1026
I have been thinking about the finals match up (way too much time to wait for this).  These are the shooting stats for Luka for the playoffs:

   43.8 FG% / 34.3 3P% / 51.3 EFG% / 56.4 TS%

That is not very efficient.  The TS% is bumped up due to 7.3 FTA per game.  In contrast, these are the aggregate team stats (including Luka):

    47.0 FG% / 37.3 3P% / 54.7 EFG% / 57.8 TS%

This to me says let Luka shoot as much as he wants, just don't foul him.  Now I get that the shooting efficiency of the rest of the team is higher due to the defense adjusting to Luka.  Those lob-dunks drive up the shooting efficient of the team.  But is Luka going to beat you shooting at those efficiency levels?

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #162 on: June 03, 2024, 01:25:35 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34680
  • Tommy Points: 1603
I have been thinking about the finals match up (way too much time to wait for this).  These are the shooting stats for Luka for the playoffs:

   43.8 FG% / 34.3 3P% / 51.3 EFG% / 56.4 TS%

That is not very efficient.  The TS% is bumped up due to 7.3 FTA per game.  In contrast, these are the aggregate team stats (including Luka):

    47.0 FG% / 37.3 3P% / 54.7 EFG% / 57.8 TS%

This to me says let Luka shoot as much as he wants, just don't foul him.  Now I get that the shooting efficiency of the rest of the team is higher due to the defense adjusting to Luka.  Those lob-dunks drive up the shooting efficient of the team.  But is Luka going to beat you shooting at those efficiency levels?
well they've beaten 3 teams that all had better records than they did with Luka having those stats.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #163 on: June 03, 2024, 02:01:28 PM »

Online Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13614
  • Tommy Points: 1026
I have been thinking about the finals match up (way too much time to wait for this).  These are the shooting stats for Luka for the playoffs:

   43.8 FG% / 34.3 3P% / 51.3 EFG% / 56.4 TS%

That is not very efficient.  The TS% is bumped up due to 7.3 FTA per game.  In contrast, these are the aggregate team stats (including Luka):

    47.0 FG% / 37.3 3P% / 54.7 EFG% / 57.8 TS%

This to me says let Luka shoot as much as he wants, just don't foul him.  Now I get that the shooting efficiency of the rest of the team is higher due to the defense adjusting to Luka.  Those lob-dunks drive up the shooting efficient of the team.  But is Luka going to beat you shooting at those efficiency levels?
well they've beaten 3 teams that all had better records than they did with Luka having those stats.

I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.  Gafford, Lively, Irving, Green, Washington, and Jones all have better playoff EFG% than Luka.  Now I understand that those secondary players are getting their opportunities because the defense is focused on Luka but statistically, as an opponent, you are better off when Luka is shooting over these other players in aggregate.

I also noted that you need to not foul Luka.  He has been getting 7.2 FTA per game, making 80%.  Luka has been taking 22.8 shots to get his 28.8 points (1.26 pts/FGA).  He is their least efficient scorer, at least in terms of EFG% (he is slightly better than only Washington in terms of TS%, due to FTs). 

Admittedly, the same is true for Tatum.  19.6 shots to get 26.0 points (1.33 pts/FGA). 

Re: Poll: Mavericks vs. Celtics Series Predictions
« Reply #164 on: June 03, 2024, 02:30:58 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3836
  • Tommy Points: 232
Media esp espn needs and wants clicks and attention on the series. Their minions have been given their marching orders to hype up the mavs.

Dallas is a good team that also had some good fortune along the way. Missing Leonard for most of the clippers series, getting a very young and inexperienced Thunder team that just wasn’t really ready. And then a slow wolves team that could not space the floor well enough to beat Dallas.

Boston has a top 8 that plays regularly that can hit 3s consistently. Boston has two very good three point shooters in Tatum and Hauser that have yet to find their level from 3. This doesn’t even take into consideration that KP hasn’t played.

The time off will help Luka’s rickety knees but prolonged time off can take you out of rhythm shooting. He was on a heater and probably wanted to keep rolling.

I still am not sure how Dallas can defend the Celtics. They cannot help off anyone and Luka standing in the lane not guarding anyone in particular won’t fly this series.

Celtics in 5 or 6 seems right. Dallas isn’t a team that blows you out. They stay attached, get turnovers and then try to steal it in the end. Minnesota had a lot of opportunities to win games 1-3. Five was really the only blow out.

For Dallas to win this series it’s going to take the Celtics helping them out quite a bit. Boston has been much better this year closing out games. The turnovers aren’t nearly as bad at the worst time. Luka is fantastic offensively and Kyrie is good also…but Kyrie can disappear for long stretches and will have to defend this series.
 

For someone as confident as you in the Celtics and coming up with every reason in the world the mavs don’t stand a chance, everyone knows the second the Celtics fall behind 10 you’ll be on here saying the sky is falling. As I’m sure I will be too, the big difference is I’m giving the mavericks a chance going into the series and not just being a complete blind homer.
Toss up series. Celtics haven’t played a good or healthy team yet in the playoffs. Mavs have beat 3 50 win teams. You can’t be serious talking about there lucky run.