What do you think Derrick White is worth?

[jambr380]

Dude was on pace for another epic dud offensively, but I give him credit for coming to play in the 2nd half. He's a confidence player, so being able to knock down 3 2nd half 3s was huge for us. Also had some nice defensive plays

[Redz]

Dude was on pace for another epic dud offensively, but I give him credit for coming to play in the 2nd half. He's a confidence player, so being able to knock down 3 2nd half 3s was huge for us. Also had some nice defensive plays

That first 3 he hit sure made feel like there was no way in hell we’re losing this game.

[celticsclay]

Came back down to earth tonight. Hopefully not a sign of things to come, but the shooting numbers in the playoffs are now more in line with his season numbers.

This was like 2022 playoffs Derrick White. Hopefully he pulls himself back up - he more than most players seems to thrive off of confidence.

D White did the same last year as well. He lit up Atlanta in the first round for 17ppg and then disappeared in the 2nd round against Philly with only 9ppg.

Right because he isn't a difference maker type player and has no elite skills.  We as fans often let single games or small sample sizes dictate how we feel and don't think about the eventual regression to the mean that always happens.  White is an excellent role player. Glad to have him and the trade to acquire him was great, but reading this thread you'd think he was Lebron in his prime.  He isn't that and expecting him to be that will only set you up for let down.

you don't think his def all season has been elite?  really?

No I don't think he is an elite defender. He isn't a guy that is going to be in the discussion for DPOY.  He is an excellent defender, but he doesn't generate elite level takeaways, he isn't super fast or athletic, etc. He is a step below guys like Caruso, Suggs, and SGA, all of which I'd classify as elite guard defenders.

I think he has a good chance to make all defensive second team this year. If you don’t consider that an elite skill you are being being ridiculous. Two of the three writers for athletic had him making the team
https://theathletic.com/5384247/2024/04/02/all-nba-all-defensive-teams-2024/

[Roy H.]

Came back down to earth tonight. Hopefully not a sign of things to come, but the shooting numbers in the playoffs are now more in line with his season numbers.

This was like 2022 playoffs Derrick White. Hopefully he pulls himself back up - he more than most players seems to thrive off of confidence.

D White did the same last year as well. He lit up Atlanta in the first round for 17ppg and then disappeared in the 2nd round against Philly with only 9ppg.

Right because he isn't a difference maker type player and has no elite skills.  We as fans often let single games or small sample sizes dictate how we feel and don't think about the eventual regression to the mean that always happens.  White is an excellent role player. Glad to have him and the trade to acquire him was great, but reading this thread you'd think he was Lebron in his prime.  He isn't that and expecting him to be that will only set you up for let down.

you don't think his def all season has been elite?  really?

No I don't think he is an elite defender. He isn't a guy that is going to be in the discussion for DPOY.  He is an excellent defender, but he doesn't generate elite level takeaways, he isn't super fast or athletic, etc. He is a step below guys like Caruso, Suggs, and SGA, all of which I'd classify as elite guard defenders.

I think he has a good chance to make all defensive second team this year. If you don’t consider that an elite skill you are being being ridiculous. Two of the three writers for athletic had him making the team
https://theathletic.com/5384247/2024/04/02/all-nba-all-defensive-teams-2024/

Yeah, he's one of the best four or five defensive guards in the NBA.  To not consider that elite is silly.

[Moranis]

I don't think making an all nba team automatically makes someone elite.  He is an excellent defender, but excellent and elite are not the same thing.  He might not even be the best guard defender on this team. 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

[Vermont Green]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

[Moranis]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

He may be that, he may not.  I mean is he a better defender than Smart, as an example? Obviously, Smart was hurt most of the year and only played in 20 games, so he clearly didn't have a better season, but entering next year if both are healthy (and the injuries don't diminish Smart), who are you calling the better defender?  It may be White or it may be Smart.  Did someone like Thybulle forget how to play defense or is him just being on a terrible Portland team the reason he doesn't get the love like he did when he played for Philly?  And I wasn't joking when I said I didn't even know if White was the best guard defender on the team.  Holiday is obviously fading, but he was an elite defender in his prime (and he was 1st team all defense even just last year).  Jrue may still be a better defender than White, especially in crunch time (I do think White can go at it harder for more of the game, but at their peak, I'd probably still take Jrue - though that gap is closing).  And in the actual defensive metrics of the rotation players, Tatum actually led the team in defensive win shares (White was 2nd just a smidge ahead of Brown) and Horford led the way in DBPM (white was the top guard but was behind Kornet and KP).

As I said, White isn't Caruso, Suggs, or SGA as a guard defender.  Those guys I consider to be elite defenders and I just don't think White is in that class.  Now maybe there is a tier below those guys that is still considered elite and White could very well be in that group, but I'm just not so sure of that.  I do know White doesn't generate steals or blocks at an elite level. There is obviously a lot more to defense than creating turnovers, but they are easily measurable stats.

[celticsclay]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

He may be that, he may not.  I mean is he a better defender than Smart, as an example? Obviously, Smart was hurt most of the year and only played in 20 games, so he clearly didn't have a better season, but entering next year if both are healthy (and the injuries don't diminish Smart), who are you calling the better defender?  It may be White or it may be Smart.  Did someone like Thybulle forget how to play defense or is him just being on a terrible Portland team the reason he doesn't get the love like he did when he played for Philly?  And I wasn't joking when I said I didn't even know if White was the best guard defender on the team.  Holiday is obviously fading, but he was an elite defender in his prime (and he was 1st team all defense even just last year).  Jrue may still be a better defender than White, especially in crunch time (I do think White can go at it harder for more of the game, but at their peak, I'd probably still take Jrue - though that gap is closing).  And in the actual defensive metrics of the rotation players, Tatum actually led the team in defensive win shares (White was 2nd just a smidge ahead of Brown) and Horford led the way in DBPM (white was the top guard but was behind Kornet and KP).

As I said, White isn't Caruso, Suggs, or SGA as a guard defender.  Those guys I consider to be elite defenders and I just don't think White is in that class.  Now maybe there is a tier below those guys that is still considered elite and White could very well be in that group, but I'm just not so sure of that.  I do know White doesn't generate steals or blocks at an elite level. There is obviously a lot more to defense than creating turnovers, but they are easily measurable stats.

You say the most ridiculous things when you get backed into a corner. If you make second all defensive team you are a top ten defender in the league. That is elite. Full stop. Stop embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. You are knowledgeable about the game and make great points sometimes. This kind of nonsense becomes all the more frustrating.

[celticsclay]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

If you are in the top 22 and top 5% of the league for something you are clearly elite at that skill. Saying anything else is frankly pretty clearly ridiculous

Can you imagine someone saying curry is an elite scorer and some jack wagon says he is not elite there are three guards that score more points? Like we do we have to read this stuff lol

[Moranis]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

He may be that, he may not.  I mean is he a better defender than Smart, as an example? Obviously, Smart was hurt most of the year and only played in 20 games, so he clearly didn't have a better season, but entering next year if both are healthy (and the injuries don't diminish Smart), who are you calling the better defender?  It may be White or it may be Smart.  Did someone like Thybulle forget how to play defense or is him just being on a terrible Portland team the reason he doesn't get the love like he did when he played for Philly?  And I wasn't joking when I said I didn't even know if White was the best guard defender on the team.  Holiday is obviously fading, but he was an elite defender in his prime (and he was 1st team all defense even just last year).  Jrue may still be a better defender than White, especially in crunch time (I do think White can go at it harder for more of the game, but at their peak, I'd probably still take Jrue - though that gap is closing).  And in the actual defensive metrics of the rotation players, Tatum actually led the team in defensive win shares (White was 2nd just a smidge ahead of Brown) and Horford led the way in DBPM (white was the top guard but was behind Kornet and KP).

As I said, White isn't Caruso, Suggs, or SGA as a guard defender.  Those guys I consider to be elite defenders and I just don't think White is in that class.  Now maybe there is a tier below those guys that is still considered elite and White could very well be in that group, but I'm just not so sure of that.  I do know White doesn't generate steals or blocks at an elite level. There is obviously a lot more to defense than creating turnovers, but they are easily measurable stats.

You say the most ridiculous things when you get backed into a corner. If you make second all defensive team you are a top ten defender in the league. That is elite. Full stop. Stop embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. You are knowledgeable about the game and make great points sometimes. This kind of nonsense becomes all the more frustrating.

ah yes because people that make the 2nd team all nba are clearly top 10 players in the league.  The same logic applies. 

why don't you answer the questions I asked instead of just trolling?

[celticsclay]

Elite is hard to define.  At any given time, there are roughly 450 NBA players.  Is elite top 10% (top 45)?  Top 5% (top 22)?  Top 1% (top 5)?  If your definition of "Elite" is top 1%, then no, Derrick White isn't elite at anything.  Is he a top 20 defender in the league?  Always tough to compare guards and bigs.  But say there are 150 guards in the league, top 5% would be top 7 or 8.

He may be that, he may not.  I mean is he a better defender than Smart, as an example? Obviously, Smart was hurt most of the year and only played in 20 games, so he clearly didn't have a better season, but entering next year if both are healthy (and the injuries don't diminish Smart), who are you calling the better defender?  It may be White or it may be Smart.  Did someone like Thybulle forget how to play defense or is him just being on a terrible Portland team the reason he doesn't get the love like he did when he played for Philly?  And I wasn't joking when I said I didn't even know if White was the best guard defender on the team.  Holiday is obviously fading, but he was an elite defender in his prime (and he was 1st team all defense even just last year).  Jrue may still be a better defender than White, especially in crunch time (I do think White can go at it harder for more of the game, but at their peak, I'd probably still take Jrue - though that gap is closing).  And in the actual defensive metrics of the rotation players, Tatum actually led the team in defensive win shares (White was 2nd just a smidge ahead of Brown) and Horford led the way in DBPM (white was the top guard but was behind Kornet and KP).

As I said, White isn't Caruso, Suggs, or SGA as a guard defender.  Those guys I consider to be elite defenders and I just don't think White is in that class.  Now maybe there is a tier below those guys that is still considered elite and White could very well be in that group, but I'm just not so sure of that.  I do know White doesn't generate steals or blocks at an elite level. There is obviously a lot more to defense than creating turnovers, but they are easily measurable stats.

You say the most ridiculous things when you get backed into a corner. If you make second all defensive team you are a top ten defender in the league. That is elite. Full stop. Stop embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. You are knowledgeable about the game and make great points sometimes. This kind of nonsense becomes all the more frustrating.

ah yes because people that make the 2nd team all nba are clearly top 10 players in the league.  The same logic applies. 

why don't you answer the questions I asked instead of just trolling?

I’m very far from trolling my friend. You are talking about a specific skill. All defensive recognizes a specific skill (all nba obviously does not) If you are recognized as top ten In the league for that (now more than ever since it is positionless) you are elite at that skill. End of discussion. Like I said stop digging in on nonsense you are better than this

[green_bballers13]

I don't think making an all nba team automatically makes someone elite.  He is an excellent defender, but excellent and elite are not the same thing.  He might not even be the best guard defender on this team.

What are you talking about? You’ve created your own definition of excellent and elite play? DWhite is good, JB is good, etc. The Celtics are a good team.

[celticsclay]

I don't think making an all nba team automatically makes someone elite.  He is an excellent defender, but excellent and elite are not the same thing.  He might not even be the best guard defender on this team.

What are you talking about? You’ve created your own definition of excellent and elite play? DWhite is good, JB is good, etc. The Celtics are a good team.

Yeah I mean changing the meaning of words when you get backed into a corner after saying something dumb is a classic Nick wright routine.

[Moranis]

I don't think making an all nba team automatically makes someone elite.  He is an excellent defender, but excellent and elite are not the same thing.  He might not even be the best guard defender on this team.

What are you talking about? You’ve created your own definition of excellent and elite play? DWhite is good, JB is good, etc. The Celtics are a good team.

Um, everyone has their own definition of elite and excellent. If everyone had the same definition there wouldn't be discussions. To bring this actually on topic, in your view, is White as good a defender as Caruso?