Celtics (5-0) at Timberwolves (3-2) Game #6 11/6/23

[celticinorlando]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

[Redz]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

Co-sign on most of that.  The iso, dribble fest stuff from outside the three point line is a little maddening. 

Mostly I think they were just dealing with their first dose of rea defense and didn’t have quite enough to get over the top . All night long they were front rimming makeable shots.  Jrue couldn’t hit the ocean last night. 

Good art is, they’re all still healthy and DWhite will be back.

[jpotter33]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

Like at what point does the coaching staff (Joe, Charles, Sam, all of them) realize that these guys need more direction and guidance in these situations? We’ve got years of data showing us this.

Is it really too much to ask to be more directive in play-calling and not just let the Jays iso every possession down the stretch? Like why not get KP in the PnR more and either get the mismatch for one of the Jays or KP an open look? Nope! Instead we think it’s a good idea to take one McDaniels or Edwards - elite perimeter defenders - one on one and try to make difficult jumpers over them.

The coaching staff’s laissez faire philosophy (altogether, but in these situations in particular) drives me nuts.

[Phantom255x]

I trust Pritchard will figure it out. Unfortunately we're just stuck with Kornet though. I don't care what the stats say, every time I see him he's basically getting outhustled, outrebounded, etc. by others even though he's 7' 2". And he looks clueless half the time too. We saw a glimpse of how it'll look when KP and/or Horford are out or playing limited minutes. Kornet absolutely can not be our 3rd big during the 2nd half + postseason.

[Roy H.]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

Like at what point does the coaching staff (Joe, Charles, Sam, all of them) realize that these guys need more direction and guidance in these situations? We’ve got years of data showing us this.

Is it really too much to ask to be more directive in play-calling and not just let the Jays iso every possession down the stretch? Like why not get KP in the PnR more and either get the mismatch for one of the Jays or KP an open look? Nope! Instead we think it’s a good idea to take one McDaniels or Edwards - elite perimeter defenders - one on one and try to make difficult jumpers over them.

The coaching staff’s laissez faire philosophy (altogether, but in these situations in particular) drives me nuts.

I agree, although admittedly I'm not sure how much Joe is an outlier here.  It seems in general that most coaches don't call many plays accept after timeouts these days.

[Yuckabuck33]

Hmm....apparently Marcus Smart wasn't the issue closing in crunch time.

[libermaniac]

Sometimes good teams lose games. It happens. No need to overanalyze this loss. The team is fine.

[Roy H.]

Hmm....apparently Marcus Smart wasn't the issue closing in crunch time.

He was certainly one of them.

[Atzar]

Some "morning after" thoughts...
 
Aggressive, physical perimeter defense forces us out of a lot of our preferred actions on offense.  This has been true for a few years now and will likely remain true as long as the Jays are the breadwinners for the organization.  McDaniels was a thorn in our ass whenever he was guarding the ball last night, and it often seemed like our offensive plan was just to iso against anybody who wasn't McDaniels.  Gobert was very impactful as a paint defender.  We SHOULD be able to mitigate his paint presence better than most teams with our shooting, but that didn't happen on a night when we shot 28% from three. 

Pritchard has to start adding value offensively if he's going to stay in the rotation.  We can live with him being a minute-eater when we're at full strength, but if anybody's missing, he has to be counted on to pick up some slack and he just isn't doing that to start the year. 

Ant is really good.  Athletically he's in a class of his own, even above Jaylen IMHO.  Strong and explosive, and a silly first step.  I don't think he even realizes how good that first step is yet.  Still a pup in a lot of ways.  He went cold in the fourth but woke up in overtime and took our lunch money. 

It took a combined 10-35 performance from Al, KP, and Jrue to bring us to overtime, and even then, Jaylen still had a very clean look to end the game in regulation.  I'm not exactly burning my Celtics shirt over this one.  We have some weaknesses to work on, especially if an injury/absence forces us deeper into our bench than we'd like, but we'll be fine. 

 

[footey]

1. Al's decline is getting worse.  His value has diminished.  Acceptable as a 6-7 man, I guess, but shouldn't start or finish games even if White or other starter is out.
2. Porzingus needs to be involved in closing offense.  Brown and Tatum both ignored him.  Part of the problem was Al was setting picks. He is worthless doing that in late game; Porzingis should be doing that.
3. Pritchard's on/off numbers, assists, rebounds and no turnovers were stellar; but he needs to start scoring. 
4. Miss Derrick White.
5. Jrue is human. 
6 TWolves are good team.  I think they are a top 2-3 team in the West. 
7. Ant is awesome.  But he should have fouled out when he tied up Tatum in OT. He was hacking the crap out of him. Wasn't a jump ball.

[SparzWizard]

Sometimes good teams lose games. It happens. No need to overanalyze this loss. The team is fine.

Of course we have to overanalyze these, esp if these were previously bad habits from last year. The Celtics play at the 76ers tomorrow, so lots of pressure there. Lose that and the C's drop in the standings.

[Who]

1. Al's decline is getting worse.  His value has diminished.  Acceptable as a 6-7 man, I guess, but shouldn't start or finish games even if White or other starter is out.

I don't think his decline is much. He just isn't as involved in the offense when your top 4 guys Tatum, Jaylen, Porzingis and Jrue are eating up most of the offensive possessions. D White eats next when he is available. There just isn't much left for Horford to work with. He is a peripheral offensive figure. A ball mover. Odd open shot taker.

His defense still looks really good. He is rebounding the ball well. Physically moving well. Just has a smaller role on offense this year.

Reminds me of Duncan his last year when Aldridge joined. Duncan got relegated to a much reduced offensive role but he was still largely the same player as the one from a year earlier.

[tenn_smoothie]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

Like at what point does the coaching staff (Joe, Charles, Sam, all of them) realize that these guys need more direction and guidance in these situations? We’ve got years of data showing us this.

Is it really too much to ask to be more directive in play-calling and not just let the Jays iso every possession down the stretch? Like why not get KP in the PnR more and either get the mismatch for one of the Jays or KP an open look? Nope! Instead we think it’s a good idea to take one McDaniels or Edwards - elite perimeter defenders - one on one and try to make difficult jumpers over them.

The coaching staff’s laissez faire philosophy (altogether, but in these situations in particular) drives me nuts.

At what point does Joe and his staff do many things, such as:

1) Have the team video staff put together film of Jaylen Brown going iso ball into traffic time after time and being forced into a very difficult shot or turnover. Sit down with Brown and show him the carnage he creates with his stubborn approach and then pull his ass when he does it in a game.
2) Likewise, put together a video of Brown and Tatum and their late-game failures and tell them what to do instead (like move the ball).
3) Implement player and ball movement, off-ball screening and playing more inside-out offense.
4) Return to the defense-first philosophy that Udoka had.
5) Reduce starter minutes, even if it costs us a game sometimes. Those guys need to be fresh for the playoffs.

[wiley]

agree with last two posts.

See problem = address problem

That's how it works for most of us in our daily lives...and elsewhere all around us.  Regarding this issue the C's seem to exist in a vacuum where the basic laws don't reach.

[SparzWizard]

Couple of things:
1. PP looks like he's lost out there. Gets a bigger role and falls flat on his face. He has been the worst player off the bench...and that is hard to do with Kornet.

2. JB is an absolute black hole when he gets the ball. He just doesn't even look to move it. And he still takes shots that are way more difficult than they need to be.

3. Last night in the second half was a great example of get mine basketball. Tatum and Brown took turns trying to go one on one or one on three almost each time down.

4. JT and JB still are terrible decision makers in crunch time. Cs up 2 with the ball in OT and Tatum decides to play And 1 mixtape with Edwards and dribbles himself into submission.

5. Bench needs more scoring. Hauser gives you almost nothing consistently. PP stinks. The rest of the guys are just grinders....and that is including Al.

6. Cs missed 8 free throws. That can't happen.

7. Under 30 percent from 3 also.

Like at what point does the coaching staff (Joe, Charles, Sam, all of them) realize that these guys need more direction and guidance in these situations? We’ve got years of data showing us this.

Is it really too much to ask to be more directive in play-calling and not just let the Jays iso every possession down the stretch? Like why not get KP in the PnR more and either get the mismatch for one of the Jays or KP an open look? Nope! Instead we think it’s a good idea to take one McDaniels or Edwards - elite perimeter defenders - one on one and try to make difficult jumpers over them.

The coaching staff’s laissez faire philosophy (altogether, but in these situations in particular) drives me nuts.

At what point does Joe and his staff do many things, such as:

1) Have the team video staff put together film of Jaylen Brown going iso ball into traffic time after time and being forced into a very difficult shot or turnover. Sit down with Brown and show him the carnage he creates with his stubborn approach and then pull his ass when he does it in a game.
2) Likewise, put together a video of Brown and Tatum and their late-game failures and tell them what to do instead (like move the ball).
3) Implement player and ball movement, off-ball screening and playing more inside-out offense.
4) Return to the defense-first philosophy that Udoka had.
5) Reduce starter minutes, even if it costs us a game sometimes. Those guys need to be fresh for the playoffs.

"Hey my name is Joe and I am not going to point out the mistakes/failures my players made. I want them to learn it themselves, the same way as how I will refuse to call a timeout and make sure my players learn it themselves" in which they've shot themselves in the foot repeatedly since IDK Tatum came into the NBA.

"I also do not want them to take 2's. I need them to take 3's, which are high-efficiency shots. Down 1 with 6 seconds to go the ball in your hands? Don't be silly to take it inside for a 2. Dribble out to the perimeter and take the 3 with 1 to go."