Celtics News

[celticinorlando]

I feel this is more and more about the looming extension and not having two max players to eat up your cap and roster.

Do not think at this point it is anything else.

[Who]

I' find the Duren S&T for Brown rumors more credible if Detroit didn't just trade away their good backup center for peanuts. Just can't see Duren not being back on Detroit.

If Detroit took back Queta as part of the sign and trade, they would have their replacement center for Duren.

I am unclear on how much of a gap there is between Queta and Duren. It looked like there was a big gap in the regular season but Duren turned back into a pumpkin on offense in the playoffs. A limited rim running center. Queta probably plays better defense. Duren better rebounding. Both rim runners on offense who can't create their own offense.

I would not be excited about giving Duren a large contract.

[Who]

I am listening to a podcast / interview with Sherrod Blakeney and Gary Washburn from yesterday talking about the Jaylen situation.

Gary Washburn thought this would be a major black eye for Celtics organization if they traded away Jaylen Brown. With everything Jaylen has done for the team over 10 years, to trade him now would be remembered as a black mark against the team for years to come.

[celticinorlando]

I think Detroit feels they can get a guy like Robinson at center and still ne really good with Cade, Thompson, Brown, etc.

I need to know what is coming back with Duran because that is not good enough just one for one. Pistons need to throw in Holland or something else.

[Who]

I feel this is more and more about the looming extension and not having two max players to eat up your cap and roster.

Do not think at this point it is anything else.

Same.

I do not understand them still shopping Jaylen otherwise. Still engaging in trade talks. They should have shut down the moment Giannis was off the table. I don't see any trade offers out there that can improve our team. They should know by now whether there are trades that improve us or not. And if there was, I reckon they would have already done it.

This continued trade discussion of Jaylen looks more like cap savings / financial reasons. Whether it is driven by Brad or the new ownership is unclear. Ownership might be forcing him. Or Brad might feel two supermax guys on the books restricts his ability to put enough talent around them and that is why he is doing. But it does increasingly look like this is financially motivated.

[celticinorlando]

I am listening to a podcast / interview with Sherrod Blakeney and Gary Washburn from yesterday talking about the Jaylen situation.

Gary Washburn thought this would be a major black eye for Celtics organization if they traded away Jaylen Brown. With everything Jaylen has done for the team over 10 years, to trade him now would be remembered as a black mark against the team for years to come.

I mean they traded away Pierce, Smart, KG and those guys did a ton for the organization. This is about business and the Celtics do not want 2 max contracts that continue to balloon with every extension.

[Who]

I think Detroit feels they can get a guy like Robinson at center and still ne really good with Cade, Thompson, Brown, etc.

I need to know what is coming back with Duran because that is not good enough just one for one. Pistons need to throw in Holland or something else.

Duren for Jaylen is a home run for DET.

I'd do that in a heartbeat if I were DET. Duren is replaceable. Cade desperately needs some offensive help. Jaylen would be a huge improvement for DET.

[Roy H.]

I'm really not enthusiastic about trading JB at the height of his career for a downgrade in immediate talent.

I was in on Giannis.  But, barring that, there are a bunch of different avenues I would have explored before trading JB, including changing the coaching staff, and moving just about anybody on the roster outside of Tatum and Brown.

If a trade brings back comparable talent, fine.  But if it's picks and middling "prospects", it's a failure.  A Mookie Betts / John Henry type of deal, which wouldn't bode well for new ownership.

I would argue it is not the exact same thing, because the cap rules in the NBA are real and restrictive, whereas in baseball they are not.  JB?s contract does keep the Celtics from doing other things.  Having two 35% max players in the new CBA might just make fielding a long-term contender impossible, and if we can only keep one, it should be Tatum.

Picks and prospects, combined with salary flexibility, can likely be turned into other players this summer.  The devil is in the details, of course.

I don't think impossible is the right word.  It certainly makes it harder.  If I'm doing math correctly, we have around $116 million tied up this season in the Jays, which is a tremendous amount.  Still, that gives us $93 million below the first apron to fill out the roster with another 12 players.  If you assume that the bottom four guys will make no more than $12 million combined, that's $81 million for guys #3 - #10.  That's $10.1 million each, which seems doable? 

I think White is the contract I'd look to move if I was serious about staying a contender while still shedding some salary.

[celticinorlando]

Shams dropping more on a potential Jaylen Brown trade:

?Majority of Boston?s conversations have been with Western Conference teams. Portland has had a lot of interest in Jaylen Brown ? and they have a ton of draft capital.?

I have no idea what they would give Boston for Brown. But why didn't Portland just be the 3rd team in the Giannis deal? They could have given the Bucks back their picks and got Brown.

Does Portland have anything Boston wants? I am not interested in a dung platter of Scoot Henderson, sharpe and Grant nor their bust of a pick from last year. I do not see how picks are any help unless they are attached to physical bodies that boston needs to stay in the hunt in the East.

[angryguy77]

Shams dropping more on a potential Jaylen Brown trade:

?Majority of Boston?s conversations have been with Western Conference teams. Portland has had a lot of interest in Jaylen Brown ? and they have a ton of draft capital.?

I have no idea what they would give Boston for Brown. But why didn't Portland just be the 3rd team in the Giannis deal? They could have given the Bucks back their picks and got Brown.

Does Portland have anything Boston wants? I am not interested in a dung platter of Scoot Henderson, sharpe and Grant nor their bust of a pick from last year. I do not see how picks are any help unless they are attached to physical bodies that boston needs to stay in the hunt in the East.

Said this in another thread. Portland does own the Bucks' pick from the Dame Trade,
Take those and maybe a player if they agree. Maybe I'm falling into the overvaluing camp, but I'm not too up on the situation out there and if they're ready to make a push or are stull rebuilding.

[Goldstar88]

I'm really not enthusiastic about trading JB at the height of his career for a downgrade in immediate talent.

I was in on Giannis.  But, barring that, there are a bunch of different avenues I would have explored before trading JB, including changing the coaching staff, and moving just about anybody on the roster outside of Tatum and Brown.

If a trade brings back comparable talent, fine.  But if it's picks and middling "prospects", it's a failure.  A Mookie Betts / John Henry type of deal, which wouldn't bode well for new ownership.

I would argue it is not the exact same thing, because the cap rules in the NBA are real and restrictive, whereas in baseball they are not.  JB?s contract does keep the Celtics from doing other things.  Having two 35% max players in the new CBA might just make fielding a long-term contender impossible, and if we can only keep one, it should be Tatum.

Picks and prospects, combined with salary flexibility, can likely be turned into other players this summer.  The devil is in the details, of course.

Also, No other team has two super max players. It does not seem like the organization views JB going forward as a super max guy. He has never been an all NBA first team player. If you are going to move on from Brown, have to do it now. He is 29 years old and his value is at an all time high. Celtics did win a championship with the J?s, but that was when the team also had Horford, Holiday, and Porzingis. Celtics have been an early exit 3 out of the last 4 years.

[Celtics2021]

Shams dropping more on a potential Jaylen Brown trade:

?Majority of Boston?s conversations have been with Western Conference teams. Portland has had a lot of interest in Jaylen Brown ? and they have a ton of draft capital.?

I have no idea what they would give Boston for Brown. But why didn't Portland just be the 3rd team in the Giannis deal? They could have given the Bucks back their picks and got Brown.

Does Portland have anything Boston wants? I am not interested in a dung platter of Scoot Henderson, sharpe and Grant nor their bust of a pick from last year. I do not see how picks are any help unless they are attached to physical bodies that boston needs to stay in the hunt in the East.

The final reports were that the portion of Milwaukee ownership that wanted Jaylen wanted to keep him, so presumably that is why they would not have taken what Portland would offer.

That said, while I can imagine Portland offers in which I would be interested, I am not sure they align with the offers Portland would actually make.

But Portland has a ton of picks from Milwaukee, and their own have a decent chance of being nice in the future too, so with the right players and expiring salaries, it could be the start of a retool.

[angryguy77]

I am listening to a podcast / interview with Sherrod Blakeney and Gary Washburn from yesterday talking about the Jaylen situation.

Gary Washburn thought this would be a major black eye for Celtics organization if they traded away Jaylen Brown. With everything Jaylen has done for the team over 10 years, to trade him now would be remembered as a black mark against the team for years to come.

This is the same mindset that brought us the 90's. Keeping dudes out of loyalty runs you into a longer rebuild.
Such a bad take by Gary. They gave him a record setting contract and spent a ton more to win a title. I don't see what more they owe.

We hear all this talk about what he sacrificed for the team. IDC, the goal is to win and if a player(not saying JB is) more concerened about personal glory, then they can close the door behind them.

[Who]

Shams dropping more on a potential Jaylen Brown trade:

?Majority of Boston?s conversations have been with Western Conference teams. Portland has had a lot of interest in Jaylen Brown ? and they have a ton of draft capital.?

I have no idea what they would give Boston for Brown. But why didn't Portland just be the 3rd team in the Giannis deal? They could have given the Bucks back their picks and got Brown.

Does Portland have anything Boston wants? I am not interested in a dung platter of Scoot Henderson, sharpe and Grant nor their bust of a pick from last year. I do not see how picks are any help unless they are attached to physical bodies that boston needs to stay in the hunt in the East.

If Portland is giving up a ton of draft capital, I think they end up keeping their young up and coming stars.

So ... I think it will be draft capital or up and coming stars. Or maybe less draft capital + less up and comers.

(1) Draft capital trade = say 4 1st rounders with Jerami Grant's contract as a makeweight and whatever other salary filler they need to add. Maybe Thybulle.

(2) Young players trade = S Sharpe & Clingan with cap filler (J Grant) for Jaylen with no picks.

(3) Combination of young players & picks = No Clingan. You can get Shaedon Sharpe + 3 firsts. Or maybe Shaedon & Scott + 2 first round picks.

The one I am least convinced of POR offering is the one involving D Clingan. So the 2nd option. The 1st or 3rd options look the most likely offers to me.

[snively]

I don't see why the Cs would do a Blazer trade without Clingan.

Clingan/Grant would be an attractive base. Clingan is the long term solution at the 5, Grant a band-aid replacement for Brown.