Author Topic: Stirring the pot  (Read 4159 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Stirring the pot
« on: September 25, 2023, 07:56:26 PM »

Offline jmen788

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 579
  • Tommy Points: 22
If coach no go Joe falters does anyone see the Cs bring in / bringing back Doc Rivers?

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2023, 08:30:36 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13841
  • Tommy Points: 1713
If coach no go Joe falters does anyone see the Cs bring in / bringing back Doc Rivers?

Nope. The insurance policy was already brought in with Sam Cassell.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2023, 08:59:58 PM »

Offline jmen788

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 579
  • Tommy Points: 22
If coach no go Joe falters does anyone see the Cs bring in / bringing back Doc Rivers?

Nope. The insurance policy was already brought in with Sam Cassell.

I think I'd prefer 'Sam I Am,' too. But, with that said, I always loved Doc's ability to argue and plead with refs. He is not a great "X's and O's coach, but he is good with refs and with sweet talking the media. Bit he gave up on us after KG. Tisk tisk.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2023, 09:59:15 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7171
  • Tommy Points: 845
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 10:04:53 PM by tenn_smoothie »
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2023, 01:09:56 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37825
  • Tommy Points: 3031
If coach no go Joe falters does anyone see the Cs bring in / bringing back Doc Rivers?

I predicted it several years ago. Not a Doc fan after he left…. Doc would make his rounds at various teams and wind up back on Celtics once they became competitive again. 

I hope the last part doesn’t come true,  think Doc exposed as a so-so coach , but I d say there is always that chance especially how weak Joe is and how desperate Wyc becomes. . Ime is a better coach than Doc . Frt office screwed up.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 07:10:31 AM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2023, 02:28:46 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4675
  • Tommy Points: 1043
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.
CELTICS 2024

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2023, 04:54:29 AM »

Offline Kernewek

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4721
  • Tommy Points: 299
  • International Superstar
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

Agreed - Putting too much emphasis on individual responsibility pulls the attention away from systemic problems that need collective solutions. This is true for a lot of things, but it's also true for the Celtics. Could we have a better head coach? Sure. Would that move the needle significantly? I remain unconvinced.

Also Doc feels pretty washed to me, as a head coach.
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2023, 06:31:24 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25812
  • Tommy Points: 2728
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

This is closest to my view.   I think we have a head coach who got the job sooner than he should have.  It’s not unlike a rookie player who is thrust into the starting lineup due to injuries. Mistakes are going to happen.  There is so much that happens out of fan view when it comes to coaching that I don’t feel I can judge his potential. But I do have trust in Brad and in Danny (who has had high praise for Joe), and if they see a good future HC despite rookie mistakes, that’s enough for me for now. I hope that sophomore year maturity reveals more of the potential that Brad undoubtedly sees.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2023, 10:18:23 AM »

Offline Atzar

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10279
  • Tommy Points: 1897
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2023, 10:38:52 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8001
  • Tommy Points: 1037
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2023, 01:59:19 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19016
  • Tommy Points: 1120
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

His mistake was transitioning him to head coaching position during ASG. Should've let him ride out the interim coaching position. I see it as him not being ready to coach at a head coach level, but maybe good as an assistant coach.


#FireJoe
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2025
I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2023, 02:10:52 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13841
  • Tommy Points: 1713
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

His mistake was transitioning him to head coaching position during ASG. Should've let him ride out the interim coaching position. I see it as him not being ready to coach at a head coach level, but maybe good as an assistant coach.

The C’s won 57 games with Joe as HC, which was the second best record in the NBA. Team came up short in the playoffs, but that was also the case with Brad and Ime.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2023, 02:13:48 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 45928
  • Tommy Points: 3341
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

His mistake was transitioning him to head coaching position during ASG. Should've let him ride out the interim coaching position. I see it as him not being ready to coach at a head coach level, but maybe good as an assistant coach.

How many head coaches got to the conference finals last
 year?

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2023, 02:15:08 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 63469
  • Tommy Points: -25459
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

His mistake was transitioning him to head coaching position during ASG. Should've let him ride out the interim coaching position. I see it as him not being ready to coach at a head coach level, but maybe good as an assistant coach.

How many head coaches got to the conference finals last
 year?

How many coaches had a team as good as the Celtics?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

Re: Stirring the pot
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2023, 02:20:12 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 45928
  • Tommy Points: 3341
I would take anyone over incompetent Joe Mazzulla.
I am almost dreading the season because I cannot see the Celts winning any titles with him as head coach.
In the end, I blame Brad for wasting this talent. How he could justify keeping Joe on is beyond me.

This is a rather common response in regards to JM on this forum, and I find it kind of humorous.

Hard to argue that Brad wasn’t at the very least a good (if not great or even elite) coach. He brought in Ime, which many believe he too was a very good coach.

Then there is Joe. Everyone dismisses him but Brad believes in him. Forget that he was a rookie head coach handed a team after camp opened, and lost important assistants for the playoff run. Yet Brad, who has proven to know what he’s doing (both on the sidelines and in the front office) doubled down on him this summer.

Joe can and will get better.

My stance is that Joe probably shouldn't have been our choice back when we hired him.  We had a team ready to win now, and it struck me as a strange choice to select an "upside" coach who may not find his stride for two or three years - if at all - rather than an experienced coach who could hit the ground running.  Would have taken Quin Snyder in an instant, for example. 

Having said that, riding the coaching carousel again this soon would just undermine our reputation and anger current players.  Nobody wants four coaches in as many years.  As long as Mazzulla is our guy, he deserves a real chance with a real support staff, and that's what he has now.  So I hope he makes the most of the opportunity, because this team appears to have everything it needs otherwise.

The problem with a Quin Snyder was that, when the Mazzulla decision was made, Udoka was suspended and not fired.  You weren’t going to get Snyder, Vogel, or any other coach of that ilk for an interim role.

When the Celtics decided to suspend, rather than fire, Udoka in September, the only options were internal.  Maybe it should have been Stoudamire, maybe Joe, maybe someone else, but there were very limited options.  And as Stevens knows a heck of a lot more about coaching than I do, I’m going to assume he made the right call long term.  I do think Mazzulla wasn’t fully prepared to be a head coach last year, but he was hired days before training camp started, so how could he have been otherwise?  I’m looking forward to how his coaching has evolved in his second season, with a full summer to prepare, and with a staff that he has chosen and have chosen to work with him.  He was put in an impossible situation last fall, and I think he at least treaded water.

His mistake was transitioning him to head coaching position during ASG. Should've let him ride out the interim coaching position. I see it as him not being ready to coach at a head coach level, but maybe good as an assistant coach.

How many head coaches got to the conference finals last
 year?

How many coaches had a team as good as the Celtics?

How many of those coaches took over a week before the start of the season?