NFL 2023 Season

[celticsclay]

Ravens in first place in the AFC.  Now sure it is because they've played the extra game, but first place is first place.

Feels great for the division that burrow and Watson are out for the year. Feels inevitable they will lose to the chiefs now, especially with Andrews done for year. AFC has become very boring because of injuries

Andrews isn't officially done for year and even without him and the Chiefs having Kelce, I'd still prefer the Ravens skill positions to the Chiefs (outside of Mahomes obviously). I know I've harped on how bad the Patriots WR's are, but the Chiefs aren't much better, if at all.  Giants are also terrible at that position.  3 of the worst WR groups In a long time.  Just devoid of talent at every spot on the depth chart. If a defense can slow Kelce down, you can shut the Chiefs down, just like the Eagles did in the 2nd half.  Chiefs have a great defense and have Mahomes, but they aren't scary this year like they have been in years past.
Conference is as open as it has been this century.  Lots of good teams and no truly great ones.

If Andrews is playing that helps a lot, and would give them a chance. I think he is that important for them. And even though they have improved their wide receivers this year I still trust him for and away more than flowers, Bateman or Beckham (who you just hope can stay healthy at this point)

[Phantom255x]

If you asked me today (November 21), I would pick the Ravens to make the SB.

I'm not sold on the Dolphins just yet as they haven't beaten any good teams + the weather does get cold in January obviously which can be a factor if they play a road game in tough conditions. Bengals obviously lost Burrow. Bills are too inconsistent. Idk, maybe they can get hot? Jacksonville is probably the most "well rounded" team but they've been shaky lately too.

Even though Lamar hasn't proven anything in the playoffs and the Ravens can be "Jekyll and Hyde", I think they have more pieces on the team overall than previous years even with Andrews out, and their defense has been mostly good. They've also had some great wins over teams like Detroit, Seattle, Cincinnati (with Burrow), etc.

KC will always have a shot with Mahomes, but something just seems off about that team. Obviously it's just Kelce, and their receivers suck, but their O-Line is also shaky. Mahomes is taking some hits back there. Kind of reminds me of the 2009 and 2019 Pats, both had great seasons but were evidently flawed and bounced early in the playoffs. If KC doesn't finish with the 1 seed, they play an extra game and for the first time, are likely playing a road playoff game at some point. If that happens I also wouldn't rule out the possibility they play a team like Buffalo in the wild card round, which can be a sneaky upset alert

[Moranis]

Ravens in first place in the AFC.  Now sure it is because they've played the extra game, but first place is first place.

Feels great for the division that burrow and Watson are out for the year. Feels inevitable they will lose to the chiefs now, especially with Andrews done for year. AFC has become very boring because of injuries

Andrews isn't officially done for year and even without him and the Chiefs having Kelce, I'd still prefer the Ravens skill positions to the Chiefs (outside of Mahomes obviously). I know I've harped on how bad the Patriots WR's are, but the Chiefs aren't much better, if at all.  Giants are also terrible at that position.  3 of the worst WR groups In a long time.  Just devoid of talent at every spot on the depth chart. If a defense can slow Kelce down, you can shut the Chiefs down, just like the Eagles did in the 2nd half.  Chiefs have a great defense and have Mahomes, but they aren't scary this year like they have been in years past.
Conference is as open as it has been this century.  Lots of good teams and no truly great ones.

If Andrews is playing that helps a lot, and would give them a chance. I think he is that important for them. And even though they have improved their wide receivers this year I still trust him for and away more than flowers, Bateman or Beckham (who you just hope can stay healthy at this point)

Oh no question Andrews helps a lot, but this team is much deeper than years past where losing Andrews was devastating.  They have 4 former 1st round draft picks at WR with clearly defined roles and no one really playing above their station. Mitchell provides an interesting wrinkle in their running game as he has game breaking speed to go with Edwards power and Hill's solid all around game. Likely and Kolar are both 2nd year TE's with talent.  No where near Andrews but at least competent collectively.  Not having the safety net in Andrews can be an issue, I just think they are much better equipped to deal woth it than they've ever been before.

Heck their backup QB is probably the 2nd best QB in the division with Burrow and Watson out (and Pickett being awful).  You ask random teams who'd they rather have this year Huntley, Pickett, Thompson-Robinson, or Browning and I'd guess most GM's would take Huntley.

As phantom says though, Lamar has to play well in the playoffs. We just won't know till they get to those.

[Phantom255x]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

[Roy H.]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

I don't know.  Welker got roasted for "dropping" a nearly uncatchable pass from Brady in the Super Bowl.

[Phantom255x]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

I don't know.  Welker got roasted for "dropping" a nearly uncatchable pass from Brady in the Super Bowl.

Yeah, in the Super Bowl. I'm more so talking about regular season. If Welker dropped that pass in Week 11 of that season not many people would care or cry as much

[Donoghus]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

I don't know.  Welker got roasted for "dropping" a nearly uncatchable pass from Brady in the Super Bowl.

Yeah, in the Super Bowl. I'm more so talking about regular season. If Welker dropped that pass in Week 11 of that season not many people would care or cry as much

I still think it was a catchable. The throw wasn't the greatest but Welker had his hands on it.

The sad thing is that Welker was an absolute machine with the Patriots. One of the best slot receivers I've ever seen.  Sadly, that play might be what he's remembered for most (that or the 954 concussions).

[Roy H.]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

I don't know.  Welker got roasted for "dropping" a nearly uncatchable pass from Brady in the Super Bowl.

Yeah, in the Super Bowl. I'm more so talking about regular season. If Welker dropped that pass in Week 11 of that season not many people would care or cry as much

I think the Chiefs' drop problems are amplified because:

-it was on Monday night (only one game to focus on)
-playing the Eagles (best record)
-drops came on final possession
-drops were big "moments" (one a sure TD, the other on 4th down)

The Mahomes / Chiefs factor probably plays into it a bit, but I think you'd get similar discussion if that happened to any QB leading a contender.

[Moranis]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

is Mahomes not having a great season?  Obviously we won't know if they make the AFC title game like the Pats did in 2006 until the season ends.  Also, were guys like Reche Caldwell dropping passes?  That was one of, if not Brady's worst season also.  Just 61.8 completion %, only 3529 yards.

[Donoghus]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

is Mahomes not having a great season?  Obviously we won't know if they make the AFC title game like the Pats did in 2006 until the season ends.  Also, were guys like Reche Caldwell dropping passes?  That was one of, if not Brady's worst season also.  Just 61.8 completion %, only 3529 yards.

Caldwell had a back breaking drop in the AFC Championship Game.

[Moranis]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

is Mahomes not having a great season?  Obviously we won't know if they make the AFC title game like the Pats did in 2006 until the season ends.  Also, were guys like Reche Caldwell dropping passes?  That was one of, if not Brady's worst season also.  Just 61.8 completion %, only 3529 yards.

Caldwell had a back breaking drop in the AFC Championship Game.

ah. Wasn't that the year that Brady was picked off in the 4th quarter, but Troy Brown caused a fumble on the int and the Pats ended up coming back and beating the Chargers in the divisional round to get to the AFC title game?

[Donoghus]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

is Mahomes not having a great season?  Obviously we won't know if they make the AFC title game like the Pats did in 2006 until the season ends.  Also, were guys like Reche Caldwell dropping passes?  That was one of, if not Brady's worst season also.  Just 61.8 completion %, only 3529 yards.

Caldwell had a back breaking drop in the AFC Championship Game.

ah. Wasn't that the year that Brady was picked off in the 4th quarter, but Troy Brown caused a fumble on the int and the Pats ended up coming back and beating the Chargers in the divisional round to get to the AFC title game?

Yes. 

[kraidstar]

I know KC's receivers have been horrible and had some brutal drops, but man the amount of excuses Mahomes is getting compared to Brady in the past from the media is insane. Brady was throwing to absolute nobodies some of these years (2006, 2013) and still had great seasons + playoff runs.

This is where KC get tested. Tyreek Hill is gone. Kelce likely will be gone a few years from now assuming he retires. Will they invest in elite weapons, and if not will Mahomes still be "Mahomes"? I think their receiving corps a few years ago was the peak it'll ever be (Hill, Kelce, McCoy, and even guys like Hardman/JuJu were productive for them). Will they also be able to afford to keep an elite O-Line in front of him. Brady started to deal with some of these issues in the early-mid 2010s and persevered.

is Mahomes not having a great season?  Obviously we won't know if they make the AFC title game like the Pats did in 2006 until the season ends.  Also, were guys like Reche Caldwell dropping passes?  That was one of, if not Brady's worst season also.  Just 61.8 completion %, only 3529 yards.

Caldwell had a back breaking drop in the AFC Championship Game.

ah. Wasn't that the year that Brady was picked off in the 4th quarter, but Troy Brown caused a fumble on the int and the Pats ended up coming back and beating the Chargers in the divisional round to get to the AFC title game?

Yes.

I'll never forget that Caldwell drop. The Pats' receivers that year were akmost as bad as the ones this year. And the officiating in that game was so badly slanted towards Indianapolis. The league definitely wanted their darling Peyton to finally get a ring.

On a dark side note, Reche Caldwell was murdered three years ago during a robbery. He'd had major problems with the law after retiring, and that robbery was probably drug-related.

You have to wonder: if he makes that catch and subsequently wins a SB, does his life turn out differently.

[Moranis]

I know Detroit and Dallas always play on Thanksgiving and they gave them divisional opponents, but man are those 2 games bad games on paper. At least San Fran at Seattle could be interesting.

[Phantom255x]

I know Detroit and Dallas always play on Thanksgiving and they gave them divisional opponents, but man are those 2 games bad games on paper. At least San Fran at Seattle could be interesting.

Yeah and even the Dolphins-Jets game with the Streaming services on Friday. Tim Boyle? No thanks lol